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Facepalm Ranger posted:
What's the thread consensus on XII? I like it a lot even with its major flaws, but people seem to really hate it whenever I bring it up.
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Nov 30, 2014 20:47
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| # ? May 19, 2024 12:45 |
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How is licensed merchandise exploitative anyways? If you think FF Potion energy drinks are stupid then... just don't buy any? I could maybe see an argument about someone who insists that someone else without the merchandise is not a True Fan, but that's not the kind of person you would want to associate with regardless.
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Nov 30, 2014 20:48
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If it weren't for merchandise I couldn't have my Lightning body pillow, and that's not a possibility i like to consider
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Nov 30, 2014 20:49
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bloodychill posted:At this point it's just more money for the dude and I'm fairly certain they'll finish the TV series before he finishes the books. Or he'll die, whatever. I'd be completely ok with him going "gently caress it I quit(officially)" and then his publisher hands the IP to Sanderson or basically anyone other than Patrick Rothfuss.
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Nov 30, 2014 20:54
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EmmyOk posted:What's the thread consensus on XII? I like it a lot even with its major flaws, but people seem to really hate it whenever I bring it up. XII is insanely polarizing. Trying to get a consensus would probably be impossible.
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Nov 30, 2014 20:59
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Evil Fluffy posted:I'd be completely ok with him going "gently caress it I quit(officially)" and then his publisher hands the IP to Sanderson or basically anyone other than Patrick Rothfuss. I liked Name of the Wind  Though the Felurian bullshit in Wise Man's Fear can piss right off.
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Nov 30, 2014 20:59
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EmmyOk posted:What's the thread consensus on XII? I like it a lot even with its major flaws, but people seem to really hate it whenever I bring it up. There is no consensus because the game's style is incredibly different from most FF titles but it's also not flawed enough like XIII for people to largely dislike it.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:00
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Chaotic Flame posted:I liked Name of the Wind I liked it too except for the 600+ pages of his attempt at Harry Potter but he writes as slow as GRRM and his excuses are even worse.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:02
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EmmyOk posted:What's the thread consensus on XII? I like it a lot even with its major flaws, but people seem to really hate it whenever I bring it up. It's not a terrible game but it has a lot of flaws. The combat system is insanely slow (to the point they added a speed-up to the international edition) and for all that people say FFXIII plays itself, FFXII actually does with fairly basic gambit setup. You can play without using gambits but the menu system was designed with them in mind and kinda sucks rear end for trying individual controls. The combat design is fun but runs into the same FF problems of "99% of the game is utterly trivial to finish" which makes the unengaging combat more of an issue. The base License system is the worst leveling system in a mainline Final Fantasy game. The International Job System fixes this somewhat though. The plot has a cool setting and cool characters but the actual pacing is complete rear end. The game feels like it could have been 25% shorter but better paced and it would have been to its benefits. It's the kind of game where you remember the cool bits but forget all the boring poo poo between them. Some people (not me) really hate the translation and the audio quality for the English voice acting is awful. The International System is a much better version of the game but while I don't dislike FFXII the way I do FF8, I don't see myself replaying it ever again.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:02
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It's really hard to fix FF12 because everyone remembers the lovely canned audio and that's impossible to fix outside of a complete redub, and that ain't going to happen.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:04
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I'd love to know what the deal is with FF12's voice quality. Newgrounds games have better audio.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:06
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Endorph posted:I'd love to know what the deal is with FF12's voice quality. Newgrounds games have better audio. I'd be willing to bet they compressed the ever-living poo poo out of it to avoid having to go to another DVD.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:07
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That's a really dumb reason when games like DMC2, Omnimusha, and Xenosaga 3 went to 2. Goddamnit, Square.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:11
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I really liked the gambit system, I thought it worked quite well. Vaan was the worst part of it, bin him and make Balthier or Basch the main character. Also get rid of that awful sun stone section from the beginning.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:13
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Tae posted:That's a really dumb reason when games like DMC2, Omnimusha, and Xenosaga 3 went to 2. Goddamnit, Square. Well, the big thing with going to two discs is that it actually does cause problems with bigger games. If you want a good example of this look at Star Ocean 4 going to multiple discs which required you to actually swap discs if you wanted to go back to earlier areas in the game. Obviously that's also a lovely design flaw (hey guys, let's put the crafting thing on one disc and the bonus dungeon on another) but still. There are indications that it has had design problems with other games too. Mass Effect 2 for example is divided into two fairly strict parts probably because they couldn't fit everything on one disc, preventing you from doing certain things early even though there is dialogue recorded for it. I also don't recall the voice acting quality being that lovely in the Japanese version so it may be something with the English acting. Alternately the answer could just be "Square-Enix is frequently inept at localization, especially voice acting" which is true to this day. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 21:14
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My favorite two-disk game is Tales of Symphonia because the back of the box is all AN ADVENTURE SPANNING TWO DISKS, ONE DISK COULD NOT CONTAIN IT but then the 2nd disk is literally just the last dungeon and the end-game sidequests edit: And the hell of FF12 is that, even if you hate the direction they took with the localization, the acting itself is very very good. It's just coming out of a tincan on a string.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:17
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I wish a company like 8-4 could do FF15 or a company similar that actually knows what localization is instead of requesting an Aussie to not Aussie but kinda Aussie and also moan exactly like the Japanese VA.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:19
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EmmyOk posted:I really liked the gambit system, I thought it worked quite well. Vaan was the worst part of it, bin him and make Balthier or Basch the main character. Also get rid of that awful sun stone section from the beginning. Vaan's a bad protagonist but he's an excellent foil for the other party members
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Nov 30, 2014 21:27
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Tae posted:I wish a company like 8-4 could do FF15 or a company similar that actually knows what localization is instead of requesting an Aussie to not Aussie but kinda Aussie and also moan exactly like the Japanese VA. 8-4 does the translation and localization but they don't get complete control over stuff. They did Tales of Hearts R which has some weird things seemingly resulting from the company changing things after the fact. It'd really be on S-E not to gently caress it up.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:28
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FFXII should have used a dual-layer DVD, although older PS2 models would have struggled to read it. That didn't stop games like Gran Turismo 4, MGS2 Substance, and both God of War games from using them, though. Hopefully Square Enix still has the original recordings around somewhere, and use them in an HD remaster, but you know what they're like.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:46
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Weren't there like a million problems with PS2's running dual-layered discs? I remember being like 12, getting Star Wars Podracers or whatever that game was and never understanding why the game couldn't run except the back of the disc looked different compared to every other PS2.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:53
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My late model slim PS2 can't read dual layer DVDs unless I push down hard on the solid bit under the disk flap.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:55
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License grid was the worst leveling system. Ability licenses were cheap as poo poo, while the party-wide ability unlocks were ridiculously expensive, so you'd end up grinding for abilities and then having all your party members be more or less the same. I also thought th significant plot points seemed to follow the unorthodox school of "don't show, don't tell." Vaan accuses Basch of murdering his brother, and Basch more or less brushes it off. Vaan hisses about it for a while then grows to trust him and yadda yadda, but they never talk about it. There's also scenes of Vaan talking to his dead brother, who just sits cataconic in a chair. I assume it's a non-literal diary kind of thing (Vaan gathering his thoughts by talking to his brother's memory), but it doesn't really fit the rest of the game's themes and the game sure as hell isn't about to tell you what's going on. Ashe was the worst offender by far, though. She spends the entire game haunted by the ghost of her dead husband, which she always responds to by gasping and breathing heavily into the microphone, then carrying on as if nothing happened. She doesn't tell anyone she's seeing ghosts, the party doesn't worry about her, and it doesn't seem to affect her decisions. Half the game is spent chasing after some allegoral nuke macguffin, and characters you meet are constantly talking about how it's dangerous and powerful and shouldn't be used, but at no point does Ashe, the woman who'd be using the nuke comment on it. I, as a player, had no idea what my party was planning on doing with the drat thing, until I find it and she of course has no intention on using it. It was apparently a close call, because the ghost that was haunting her turned out to actually be the real villain manipulating her. We don't see any of this, but we do get major cutscenes teaching us things like Vaan, a literal street urchin, not knowing that it's rude to ask a woman's age. E: Disclaimer, it's been a long time since I played the game, but that's how I remember it. Feel free to correct any errors 
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Nov 30, 2014 22:40
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EmmyOk posted:What's the thread consensus on XII? I like it a lot even with its major flaws, but people seem to really hate it whenever I bring it up. It's my favorite Final Fantasy for a lot of reasons. Not that it didn't have problems - but it did so many things different from your "standard" FF that it really stands out. Ashe is my favorite FF lead alongside Cloud. Tae posted:That's a really dumb reason when games like DMC2, Omnimusha, and Xenosaga 3 went to 2. Goddamnit, Square. Funny you should mention Xenosaga, I think Episode II also had the audio compression thing going on for voice-acting and yet it was still on multiple disks. Kajeesus posted:There's also scenes of Vaan talking to his dead brother, who just sits cataconic in a chair. I assume it's a non-literal diary kind of thing (Vaan gathering his thoughts by talking to his brother's memory), but it doesn't really fit the rest of the game's themes and the game sure as hell isn't about to tell you what's going on. I love XII but this part is horribly explained and I didn't understand it either until I got online. Basically, "Basch" (really Gabranth) did not murder Reks. You might have gotten that very strong impression from the visuals but in reality all he did was wound him badly. Remember, someone had to survive to tell the world "Basch" was a traitor. Only, Reks was supposed to be in on the Kingslaying and the Imperials couldn't have him saying no he wasn't so they drugged him so bad it left him in that braindead state. Or something like that. As I said, the main story never explains this well at all, I only understood this much by reading F wiki after playing XII for the first time 4 years ago.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:03
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NikkolasKing posted:Funny you should mention Xenosaga, I think Episode II also had the audio compression thing going on for voice-acting and yet it was still on multiple disks. Yeah, but Xenosaga games have more voiced cutscenes than they do gameplay.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:10
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Sakurazuka posted:Yeah, but Xenosaga games have more voiced cutscenes than they do gameplay. It's stands out because the battle system is decent and the story is OK but the game is always hurling its piss-poor VA at you.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Basically, "Basch" (really Gabranth) did not murder Reks. You might have gotten that very strong impression from the visuals but in reality all he did was wound him badly. Remember, someone had to survive to tell the world "Basch" was a traitor. Only, Reks was supposed to be in on the Kingslaying and the Imperials couldn't have him saying no he wasn't so they drugged him so bad it left him in that braindead state.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:16
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bloodychill posted:It's stands out because the battle system is decent and the story is OK but the game is always hurling its piss-poor VA at you. You're only referring to Episode 2, right? Because I though the voice-acting was pretty good in the others. It certainly be the last thing I complained about. Xenosaga is semi-obscure but Albedo is still known as one of Freeman's best performances, and for good reason. Liam O'Brien takes 2nd Place in the JRPG Villain Ham Race. Endorph posted:Actually you're kind of wrong there, too. Reks is dead by the time the game starts, but he did live long enough to corroborate the empire's story. Vaan's little flashbacks/episodes are probably from the trauma of seeing his brother basically a vegetable. Ah, fair enough then. I figured he was dead by the time of XII but I had no idea how long he had survived after the prologue. Thanks for the info.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:17
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Kajeesus posted:
FFXII is a bit more subtle with its storytelling than the rest of the series. So it might be easier to miss on a single play through, but pretty much everything you brought up is covered in the game. For example, Ashe is being affected in her decisions and behavior by the visions, but you have to pick it up from context, not because she declares "I'm going to do this because it's what the ghost of my husband wants." I love 12, and part of it is because it doesn't spell everything out. Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 23:22
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EmmyOk posted:I really liked the gambit system, I thought it worked quite well. Vaan was the worst part of it, bin him and make Balthier or Basch the main character. Also get rid of that awful sun stone section from the beginning. A lot of people are really sour on Vaan, but he's honestly a well-handled character. The scene in Jahara where he admits that his dreams of becoming a sky pirate were a cover for his feelings of powerlessness makes him a lot more sympathetic. He's mostly a bystander character, but that actually fits with the plot and themes of FF12 - that the main characters are not the ones in control. They're average people caught up in an international conflict that is beyond their power to stop. That message does get diluted when you gain the ability to shoot massive lasers at will and summon several embodiments of death, but the intention is there  Kajeesus posted:She doesn't tell anyone she's seeing ghosts, the party doesn't worry about her, and it doesn't seem to affect her decisions. She does tell Vaan! Her and Vaan are the characters who have the largest desires for revenge which is why the Occuria attempt to exercise control of their emotions through the ghosts.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:23
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I don't mind Vaan, it's understandable that the story's told through his eyes because he's the most relatable out of all the party members. Vaan's just an regular kid who lost his brother in the war. What I find kind of funny is that people tend to not use him even though his stats are really good. Better than Balthier's (which is stupid because Balthier is awesome) actually. Penelo, on the other hand, is just kind of there. I heard they were going to do more with her character but it got cut for some reason. Larsa should have replaced her. I was too hard on Final Fantasy XII when I first played it because I thought it'd be like X. XII is an awesome game on it's own and the visual design, aside from the stupid outfits, is fantastic. I still like the story, characters, leveling system and battle system in X better though. Celery Face fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 23:34
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What I appreciated about FF XII was that the main the villain wasn't a "Muahahaha I'm going the blow up the world because reasons!" He was an ambitious ruler who wanted to take back Mankind's destiny from the hands of the Occuria and become a new dynast king, free from the influence of the gods. A conquerer who was probably all about fulfilling his own desires of glory, but who wasn't pure evil. But then, you can probably figure out that the original Dynast king was probably one hell of a warmonger to manage to unify the land, and he's pretty much a mythic figure in Dalmasca. Hell, Venat would have been considered a good guy if he'd chosen to side with our party instead of the obvious choice that was the powerful Arcadian Empire. He always wanted to free mankind and in the end, he went all "We will walk the road to Hell together" with Vayne. Guy believed to the end that he was doing the right thing.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:40
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Larsa would have been the best party member. He already is the best guest. Infinite Hi-Potions? Aww, thanks, kid  In the IZJS version he gets the ability to cast Shades of Black instead, and everything gets fried  Child characters in JRPGs are generally handled terribly, but Larsa manages to be not annoying at all and in fact rather admirable for his willingness to oppose his brother. Karanas posted:What I appreciated about FF XII was that the main the villain wasn't a "Muahahaha I'm going the blow up the world because reasons!" He was an ambitious ruler who wanted to take back Mankind's destiny from the hands of the Occuria and become a new dynast king, free from the influence of the gods. A conquerer who was probably all about fulfilling his own desires of glory, but who wasn't pure evil. This is why the final sequence disappoints me so much, since Vayne basically becomes cartoonishly evil and gets glowing eyes and starts spouting lines about how "your lives are worthless". Gamma Nerd fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 23:42
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quote is not edit
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Nov 30, 2014 23:44
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Gamma Nerd posted:Child characters in JRPGs are generally handled terribly, but Larsa manages to be not annoying at all and in fact rather admirable for his willingness to oppose his brother. He's not really portrayed as a child though, he's really just a small adult.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:45
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Kid characters are terrible unless they're written as adults, which then asks the question of why even make him a kid.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:48
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Vivi should count as a child character, shouldn't he?
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Nov 30, 2014 23:49
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Larsa is a good character but did anyone else mistake him for a girl when they first played the game? I feel like I'm not alone on this. Same goes for ditching Balthier's guns as soon as they could. Guns are cool but drat are they weak in this game. I will never not read "rabanastrian" as "rastafarian."
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Nov 30, 2014 23:54
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Celery Face posted:Larsa is a good character but did anyone else mistake him for a girl when they first played the game? I feel like I'm not alone on this. Same goes for ditching Balthier's guns as soon as they could. Guns are cool but drat are they weak in this game. I thought Larsa was a girl until I heard him outright referred to as a prince. Though I cared less about his gender and more about his bottomless supply of Hi-Potions. You can be whatever you want as long as you keep that nectar flowing, kiddo.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:55
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Larsa is Cool
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Nov 30, 2014 23:57
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