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Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Scaramouche, I'd like this:

http://www.icecarats.com/Sterling-Silver-Dark-Blue-Cubic-Zirconia-18-Necklace-779885.aspx

but can you verify me that this is actually the earrings pictured and not a necklace?

Thanks.

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Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

What the... why... how do you guys do this?? This is getting into pea and the princess territory.

They are definitely earrings. I checked all the other marketplace destinations and luckily they're correct there. Just to reassure you, here's the Amazon listing:
http://www.amazon.com/IceCarats-Designer-Sterling-Zirconia-Earrings/dp/B00OIHFI08/

That's what you'd get. Also to get into patting my own back territory, check out those keen gem stone attributes and treatment explanations in the body text. I mentioned we're switching platforms and this is one of the reasons, so we can make the products much more detailed like the Amazon entries.

I've changed the name on the site, but to my eternal shame the URL will always be like that for SEO reasons.

About 80% of our suppliers are working and shipping tomorrow (everyone except the religious piece guys) so an order today/tonight will probably ship tomorrow unless something goes horrifically wrong.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
For what it's worth, almost all the listings look messed up to me -- names like "sterling silver 14k yellow gold 10.00 mm;p;genuine checkerboard smoky quartz ring genuine checkerboard smoky quartz ring." If I happened to come across the site (not from your referral), I would definitely think it was fake/scammy, and I wouldn't buy anything from it no matter how good an item looked. Sorry, but I thought you'd want to know.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Yeah, I know the thing of which you speak. Ironically one of the better suppliers in the business when it comes to quality in my experience. However their raw data is terrible (though lovely pictures). I hate to sound like a broken record, but we've already improved some things immensely when we publish to a new site.
It basically turns this word salad:

quote:

Sterling Silver & 14K Yellow Gold 10.00 Mm;P;Genuine Checkerboard Smoky Quartz Ring. Sterling Silver & 14Kt Yellow Smoky Quartz Ring. Quality: Sterling Silver & 14K Yellow Gold. Size: 10.00 Mm;P;Genuine Checkerboard Smoky Quartz Ring. .

Into this:

quote:

IceCarats Designer Jewelry Sterling Silver 14K Yellow Gold Smoky Quartz Ring Size 6
Quality: Sterling Silver 14K Yellow Gold.
Weight: 5.5 grams.
Unit of Sale: Each
10.00 Mm

Gem Treatment Information
Gem: Smoky Quartz Treatment Code: R (Irradiated)
Explanation: Irradiated to enhance color
Special Care: None

Gemstone Information
Stone Description: 3.570 Ct -- 10X10 Mm Round Gemstone Smoky Quartz Lozenge Checkerboard
Stone Size: 3.570 Ct
Stone Quantity: 1 stone.

I've come up with some interesting algorithmic stuff to de-crapify the descriptions.

That said, don't apologize and thanks for your feedback! Sometimes you get so used to things that you stop being able to see things to improve because 'it was always like that'. I know I'm personally disappointed that this hasn't been the best showing but I'm also getting plenty of ammunition for the Powers That Be to change things.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Brennanite posted:

Tunicate, I'll keep an eye out for the lapis.

Hey, a goon just bought a lapis from me. Was that you?

Brennanite
Feb 14, 2009

Tunicate posted:

Hey, a goon just bought a lapis from me. Was that you?

No, I've been too sick to do anything. Sorry.

Radio Talmudist
Sep 29, 2008
My girlfriend mentioned a month ago that she'd love a pair of gold hoop earrings. I'm thinking of getting her a pair for Christmas. I honestly haven't the slightest clue what I'm doing. This is also a very new relationship, and she's insisted that I not spend too much (we've agreed to a maximum spending limit of 50$, though I'm willing to go over that). Is it possible to get a nice pair at that price range? Is it tacky to get her something like that for Christmas - would a neckless or something similar be better? I apologize if this question is too vague to be useful.

Xun
Apr 25, 2010

So, I've been faceting stuff and now I want to give them away as gifts. Anyone know where a good place to get a variety of settings? Most of the places I've found sell cabochon settings and when they do sell faceted stone settings it's only in a couple styles/materials.

ScaryJen
Jan 27, 2008

Keepin' it classy.
College Slice

Xun posted:

So, I've been faceting stuff and now I want to give them away as gifts. Anyone know where a good place to get a variety of settings? Most of the places I've found sell cabochon settings and when they do sell faceted stone settings it's only in a couple styles/materials.

You could try Rio Grande, maybe? They're mostly in sterling silver, but they have several basket and crown shapes on their site. If you're up for investing in some tools and wire/metal, you could learn to make your own settings for your stones.

Radio Talmudist posted:

My girlfriend mentioned a month ago that she'd love a pair of gold hoop earrings. I'm thinking of getting her a pair for Christmas. I honestly haven't the slightest clue what I'm doing. This is also a very new relationship, and she's insisted that I not spend too much (we've agreed to a maximum spending limit of 50$, though I'm willing to go over that). Is it possible to get a nice pair at that price range? Is it tacky to get her something like that for Christmas - would a neckless or something similar be better? I apologize if this question is too vague to be useful.

You're not going to get anything in solid gold for that price range, but you could probably get gold plated hoops for about $30-40 in a department store. You might try something in vermeil, like these. I don't think jewelry would be a tacky gift if she mentioned she like something like that, but if it was me I'd be a little intimidated by a very expensive gift early on in a relationship.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Radio Talmudist posted:

My girlfriend mentioned a month ago that she'd love a pair of gold hoop earrings. I'm thinking of getting her a pair for Christmas. I honestly haven't the slightest clue what I'm doing. This is also a very new relationship, and she's insisted that I not spend too much (we've agreed to a maximum spending limit of 50$, though I'm willing to go over that). Is it possible to get a nice pair at that price range? Is it tacky to get her something like that for Christmas - would a neckless or something similar be better? I apologize if this question is too vague to be useful.

It kinda depends on the size of the hoop you want. For example we have some like, 2.5 inch monster hoops that I'm amazed sell every time I come across them (and yes, they're expensive). I don't know if you want to compromise on it, but also consider 10k hoops, as they're a bit cheaper. Still probably over $50, but more like $50-$100 instead of $150-$200. I'm also assuming you mean yellow gold?

Fashionably Great
Jul 10, 2008
Amazon appears to have some 1 inch diameter in 10k for $50. Here's some 14k that are a little smaller that have user submitted pictures.

amethystbliss
Jan 17, 2006

Radio Talmudist posted:

My girlfriend mentioned a month ago that she'd love a pair of gold hoop earrings. I'm thinking of getting her a pair for Christmas. I honestly haven't the slightest clue what I'm doing. This is also a very new relationship, and she's insisted that I not spend too much (we've agreed to a maximum spending limit of 50$, though I'm willing to go over that). Is it possible to get a nice pair at that price range? Is it tacky to get her something like that for Christmas - would a neckless or something similar be better? I apologize if this question is too vague to be useful.

Groupon has a bunch of good hoops massively on sale that they claim are solid gold (like this: http://www.groupon.com/deals/gg-14k-solid-gold-endless-hoop-earrings). I ordered a pair of solid gold studs last week for like $10. They haven't arrived yet, so I can't speak to the quality.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Also as an aside, it's hard to go wrong with Amazon Curated stuff. They vet it pretty heavily, and carry some good stuff from good suppliers (e.g. they carry one of my ring guys Benchmark who are pretty well known). They also buy thousands at a time so stock is never an issue, and they demand crazy volume pricing when buying in those quantities so it's almost always a deal.

SapientCorvid
Jun 16, 2008

reading The Internet
Hey jewelry dudes and dudettes:

I've been planning to propose to my girlfriend for about half a year now, but I've been slowly working out what to do regarding a ring.

I found out yesterday in a conversation with my mother (in which I asked about her engagement ring and revealed my plan to propose) that my girlfriend's mother had given my mother three family rings from which to do whatever I please ring-wise for my girlfriend.

My father is taking the rings to a family owned jeweler he did a job for (he has a good relationship with the family) to get appraised today, but I wanted to pick the thread's brain and get some additional opinions.

Here are the basic facts of what I have, with as much relevant info as I can give:

Three Rings:

Ring one is from 1933. It's a masonic ring, 10 K Yellow Gold, has some designs on the sides. Fairly large, I'm not sure of the weight.
Ring one has a round cut 1.5 to 2 Carat diamond, No flaws from what I could see (I dont have a loupe but used a magnifying glass), F or G coloring.

Ring two is from 1934. It's another masonic ring, 14 K Yellow Gold, has what looks like silver or white gold (i'm thinking white gold) designs on the sides.
Ring two has another large round cut 1.5 to 2 Carat diamond. This one is yellow, but doesn't look "dirty" or anything. Clarity is high on this one as well. I know there are some desireable yellow diamonds from the early part of the 20th century, so maybe there's something there?
Ring two also has two .25 Carat or possibly smaller diamonds embedded in the side dragon designs.

Ring three is from the late 1930's. 14K White Gold (platinum? the sheen is slightly dull, and doesn't look like tarnish is the culprit for that dulling. the ring is also heavy for it's size)
Ring three has a lot of very small diamonds embedded in it, has a very old school setting that I'm not a huge fan of (and my girlfriend wouldn't like, either).

Here's what I want to get out of these rings:

An engagement ring with a simple setting, 14k white gold or yellow gold, using the diamond from ring one and the two smaller diamonds from ring two, and the small point diamonds from ring three if possible.

Two wedding bands, 14K yellow gold. Simple, wide bands.

I can post pictures when I see the rings again (I didn't take pictures yesterday because I'm trying to be VERY secretive about this: the only people that know are myself, my mother and father).

My question is this: can I use these three rings to get out what I'm trying to get out of them?

I realize that there is a lot of speculation that won't give a crystal clear outcome to what I've posted, but your thoughts would be really appreciated. This is kind of new to me and I don't want to get jerked around or have totally unrealistic expectations.

SapientCorvid fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Dec 4, 2014

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

That's kind of neat. I'd like to see pictures just because apparently masonic rings can indicate the rank of the member:
http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/entered-apprentice-ring.html

From what you're saying about the 3 diamond ring it might be a 3rd degree master ring.

When you say 'use', do you mean take out all the diamonds, melt all the metal, recast the metal into new rings, put the diamonds back in? Or just use the diamonds?

SapientCorvid
Jun 16, 2008

reading The Internet
When I say use i'm talking about the first statement: using the materials to make the rings I asked about through casts or whatever methods jewelers use.

What little research I did indicated that that would be expensive/unwise, is that true?

Kalista
Oct 18, 2001

McStephenson posted:

When I say use i'm talking about the first statement: using the materials to make the rings I asked about through casts or whatever methods jewelers use.

What little research I did indicated that that would be expensive/unwise, is that true?

The shop I apprenticed with would not reuse the gold from other rings and jewelry, because the alloy (mixture of metals) they use would not match the alloy in the existing rings (especially as one ring is 10k and the others are 14k). There's also potential for impurities in the metal of the older rings.

What they would do is take the gold from the old rings and give you credit for it towards the final cost of the piece you were having made. They then send that to their refiner along with all the other scraps/shavings/gold they have, who then gives the shop credit towards purchase of new alloy.

The stones though, they are always happy to remove and reuse those, as long as the stones are in good condition.

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja

McStephenson posted:

I realize that there is a lot of speculation that won't give a crystal clear outcome to what I've posted, but your thoughts would be really appreciated. This is kind of new to me and I don't want to get jerked around or have totally unrealistic expectations.

My advice would be to sell the ring mountings and use that money towards a new engagement mounting. You won't want to reuse the old gold as you rarely get good results doing so (without a full refining).

Have the white diamond recut to a modern brilliant. The older cuts are nice, but are rarely an ideal use of the diamond crystal. Modern science has come a long way.

And perhaps sell the yellow diamond to make a fancier engagement ring and also cover your wedding bands.

Mid-Priced Carp
Aug 10, 2008
My dad has a massive rock and crystal collection. He's recently started talking about taking some of his smaller stuff and making them into pendants or earrings or what have you. I've looked at wire wrapping tutorials, since he's not set up to drill them yet. Here's my crappy practice attempts on some quartz crystals he had laying around:



These are just some neat-looking ones that were easy to get to, he has some natural aquamarine, garnet, and emerald in matrix that I want to work with. I've been doing some research for him, and it sounds like the best way to drill holes in these types of stones is by using a diamond-tipped drill bit, and submerging the stone in water while drilling. Does that sound right to you guys? Any advice or tips regarding this? The next thing is electroplating. He mentioned that he'd love to plate the backs of some of the stuff. I've been looking into electroplating kits, and I'm a little lost. Any advice on a good starter type setup? Also, where are some good places to source this sort of equipment?

Thanks in advance for the help, my dad's always been a huge rockhound, and I'd really love to have a couple nice pieces that he found in the mines around my hometown that we turned into jewelry together. :3

Claes Oldenburger
Apr 23, 2010

Metal magician!
:black101:

chaniara posted:

My dad has a massive rock and crystal collection. He's recently started talking about taking some of his smaller stuff and making them into pendants or earrings or what have you. I've looked at wire wrapping tutorials, since he's not set up to drill them yet. Here's my crappy practice attempts on some quartz crystals he had laying around:



These are just some neat-looking ones that were easy to get to, he has some natural aquamarine, garnet, and emerald in matrix that I want to work with. I've been doing some research for him, and it sounds like the best way to drill holes in these types of stones is by using a diamond-tipped drill bit, and submerging the stone in water while drilling. Does that sound right to you guys? Any advice or tips regarding this? The next thing is electroplating. He mentioned that he'd love to plate the backs of some of the stuff. I've been looking into electroplating kits, and I'm a little lost. Any advice on a good starter type setup? Also, where are some good places to source this sort of equipment?

Thanks in advance for the help, my dad's always been a huge rockhound, and I'd really love to have a couple nice pieces that he found in the mines around my hometown that we turned into jewelry together. :3

I'm on the skytrain right now so I can't source stuff, but you are correct with the drilling of stones as far as I'm aware. The key is to go slow and be mindful of the potential heat that is being generated that can crack the stones.

Unfortunately I've never seen starter plating setups, because I would have bought one! Look up rio grande and they should have an all together kit for plating but it will probably be pricy. Also in case you do plate please do it with adequate ventilation! It can be pretty hazardous as some plating solutions have cyanide in them.

Another option would be to buy gold filled wire and wrap the stones with that, giving you the benefit of the gold in a thicker layer. An added bonus is you don't have to mess with nasty chemicals and electricity.

Edit: sorry I just noticed you said plating the backs, still might be a good compromise though!

EDIT: Plating kit if you are in the US http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Midas-Six-Station-Plating-System-with-3-amp-Rectifier-1-Liter/331962?Pos=1

Double EDIT: There's actually a much cheaper starter one! http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Midas-5-Amp-Starter-Plating-System/3353005?Pos=7

Claes Oldenburger fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Dec 17, 2014

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

:toot: :toot: :toot:
Fallen Rib
I know there is at least one goon in this thread who designs superior gemstone jewellery. I used to have the URL but lost it. Can someone re-post it if you have it? Actually the links to any goon-owned jewellery shops if there's more than one.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

The Doctor posted:

I know there is at least one goon in this thread who designs superior gemstone jewellery. I used to have the URL but lost it. Can someone re-post it if you have it? Actually the links to any goon-owned jewellery shops if there's more than one.

:toot: Going to toot my own horn. And some other etsy goons too.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3679557

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

:toot: :toot: :toot:
Fallen Rib
Ah, thanks, I found the link, it was for Johnny's shop.

rotoscoped
Oct 30, 2010
Phew, I just read this entire thread in the past few days and I'd really like to thank Claes and especially Johnny for keeping this thread going for so long and talking about so many cool and interesting things :3:.

I have been interested in buying loose stones for a while, but I don't really have all that much spending money. They'd just be for looking at and possibly for using in a beginner's jewelry course I plan to take later in the year, so I think some lab-grown gems would be my best bet for now, probably? Can any of you fine goons recommend me an online store that sells those and also ships to Europe? Are there certain terms to avoid? (I think I read something abot synthetic vs lab-made earlier in the thread?)

Any help would be appreciated :).

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

rotoscoped posted:

Phew, I just read this entire thread in the past few days and I'd really like to thank Claes and especially Johnny for keeping this thread going for so long and talking about so many cool and interesting things :3:.

I have been interested in buying loose stones for a while, but I don't really have all that much spending money. They'd just be for looking at and possibly for using in a beginner's jewelry course I plan to take later in the year, so I think some lab-grown gems would be my best bet for now, probably? Can any of you fine goons recommend me an online store that sells those and also ships to Europe? Are there certain terms to avoid? (I think I read something abot synthetic vs lab-made earlier in the thread?)

Any help would be appreciated :).

Well, you can try to find some local gem and mineral shows in your area. Being able to look at them in person and talk with the vendors will probably help you figure out what you like or dislike.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

rotoscoped posted:

Phew, I just read this entire thread in the past few days and I'd really like to thank Claes and especially Johnny for keeping this thread going for so long and talking about so many cool and interesting things :3:.

I have been interested in buying loose stones for a while, but I don't really have all that much spending money. They'd just be for looking at and possibly for using in a beginner's jewelry course I plan to take later in the year, so I think some lab-grown gems would be my best bet for now, probably? Can any of you fine goons recommend me an online store that sells those and also ships to Europe? Are there certain terms to avoid? (I think I read something abot synthetic vs lab-made earlier in the thread?)

Any help would be appreciated :).

For Christmas I just bought my fiance a bunch of stones as she wants to learn to set. I just used cooksons which is a pretty big UK jewlerry supply store and grabbed a bunch of garnets, topaz, peridot, amethyst and mossanite in different shapes.

I figure at first the quality if the gens isn't going to be of the highest importance so just getting different shapes and sizes will help with learning. They look pretty neat anyway.

Claes Oldenburger
Apr 23, 2010

Metal magician!
:black101:

rotoscoped posted:

Phew, I just read this entire thread in the past few days and I'd really like to thank Claes and especially Johnny for keeping this thread going for so long and talking about so many cool and interesting things :3:.

I have been interested in buying loose stones for a while, but I don't really have all that much spending money. They'd just be for looking at and possibly for using in a beginner's jewelry course I plan to take later in the year, so I think some lab-grown gems would be my best bet for now, probably? Can any of you fine goons recommend me an online store that sells those and also ships to Europe? Are there certain terms to avoid? (I think I read something abot synthetic vs lab-made earlier in the thread?)

Any help would be appreciated :).

You're welcome! I am more than happy to spread the joy of gold and jewels across the internet. The biggest difference is synthetic/lab-made vs. imitation. Lab made is almost the identical or identical chemical composition as its natural counterpart, whereas imitation is just trying to be the same colour. I would suggest for now just getting things you like! The more you learn and research the more your choices will probably get narrowed down. Something to keep in mind if you end up taking a beginners jewellery course is if you start setting stones you will undoubtedly start with bezel setting cabochon stones. Adding some turquoise or lapis/moonstone/labradorite/ etc. cabs to your collection can be really nice pieces and also not very hard on the wallet. Then if you do decide to make jewellery, you can use them pretty quick in rings or pendants or whatever!

Maksimus54
Jan 5, 2011
As a man that has had to play dress up quite a bit more than I used to, do we have any goons that would be open to working on some cufflinks/ tux studs? I've been trying to find something of decent quality with maybe some small amethyst or peridot gems in silver.

Mandalay
Mar 16, 2007

WoW Forums Refugee
Is colored (e.g. pink) moissanite considered worse/lower quality/less desirable than standard moissanite?

Dr. Fraiser Chain
May 18, 2004

Redlining my shit posting machine


Moissanite is lab made, so quality should be equal across all the samples. Its just if you like the color better I would imagine?

JohnnyRnR
May 16, 2004
Beer Ninja

Maksimus54 posted:

As a man that has had to play dress up quite a bit more than I used to, do we have any goons that would be open to working on some cufflinks/ tux studs? I've been trying to find something of decent quality with maybe some small amethyst or peridot gems in silver.

This is definitely a job for Claes Oldenburger. He does great work in those types of pieces.

Xun
Apr 25, 2010

How difficult is it to set gemstones? Instructions online make it seem relatively simple but the jewelry place I took my stones to said it'd cost like 120$ to set them because they are big.



The clear quartz is around 12mm across and the rose quartz is like 13.5mm. Should I try looking around for wireworking classes or something instead of relying on internet instructions?

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Wire wrapping faceted gems is more difficult than cabochons.

You might want to look for premade settings that would fit the stones online, but I'm not sure what would fit the octagonal cut.

I think one of the pendant settings from Tripps would work for the rose quartz, provided you're willing to put the stone in yourself. They've got a few different styles if you poke around the site a bit, and getting one in sterling is like 6-7 dollars.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Mandalay posted:

Is colored (e.g. pink) moissanite considered worse/lower quality/less desirable than standard moissanite?

Yeah, if it's pink it was probably deliberately made that way. It actually looks kind of nice, but I prefer Morganite for a pink stone.

Mandalay
Mar 16, 2007

WoW Forums Refugee

Scaramouche posted:

Yeah, if it's pink it was probably deliberately made that way. It actually looks kind of nice, but I prefer Morganite for a pink stone.

Good to hear. This pendant seems like a good deal for $150: 1.3ct/6.5mm center Moissanite stone.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Yeah that's probably pretty good. I don't really have any comparables to price against since we don't carry pink or anything even close to that style. I will say that thing is going to >pop< visually; I don't usually see Moissanite in a halo setting like that, usually they use diamonds, even if the center stone is Moissanite.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

My fiancee wants to get a custom made wedding ring that looks similar to this one:

Except with a heart cut sapphire for the heart setting.

The local jeweler we talked to quoted us a total price of ~$1300
~$300 for the 4mm/0.5ct A grade heart cut blue sapphire (actually he wrote down $300, but he said $435)
~$200 for 6 (3 for each "wrist" on the hands) 1/20 ct GH color, V2/S1 clarity round cut diamonds.
~$800 for a size 8 woman's ring 3-4 mm in width in 14k White Gold

Are these prices reasonable?

The other local jeweler says he gets his claddagh rings from Quality Gold and a fairly similar ring without gems is listed on their site for under $200 so I think I might be getting ripped off. I expect a custom made ring to cost more, but 4 times more is a little much. I've only bought jewelry once before (engagement ring) so maybe the ring that costs 4 times as much is money well spent in terms of getting a ring that will last longer? The jeweler who quoted me this price also said that he would shape the band for a "comfort fit" since my fiancee isn't used to wearing rings yet and says it hurts to wear her engagement ring (she's only had it for a week). Is a "comfort fit" ring band a real thing? I'm guessing not.

The Doctor
Jul 8, 2007

:toot: :toot: :toot:
Fallen Rib
For a custom design like that? 1300 sounds very reasonable to me. That ring under $200 you posted is an ugly piece of poo poo. It looks like it was stamped out of sheet metal. I'm not sure how much work will go into your ring but...seems very fair to me. Someone else (more qualified) might think otherwise.

A custom design made by a good jeweler is worth far more than something mass produced, in my mind. Also, yes, a "comfort fit" band is definitely a real thing but no band has ever bothered me so I can't speak to the difference in actual comfort.

The Doctor fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Jan 22, 2015

Dr. Fraiser Chain
May 18, 2004

Redlining my shit posting machine


Get the jeweler to add a ring on one of the two hands on that ring

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StopShootingMe
Jun 8, 2004

I can't believe I spent $5 on this title.
Remove the crown so the ring will be even more goatse.

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