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eschaton posted:I couldn't tell you developers clinging to autistic ideals of purity? say it ain't so
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Nov 29, 2014 23:37
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a github project accepted my pull request and now i'm being informed that i received a "primecoin tip" for it
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Nov 30, 2014 03:09
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Series DD Funding posted:a github project accepted my pull request and now i'm being informed that i received a "primecoin tip" for it this isn't the peecoin thread
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Nov 30, 2014 03:10
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no wait hindcoin?
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Nov 30, 2014 03:10
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Rumpcoin
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Nov 30, 2014 03:40
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Series DD Funding posted:a github project accepted my pull request and now i'm being informed that i received a "primecoin tip" for it sever your fork
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Nov 30, 2014 05:59
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hi, a few months ago I wasn't a programmer at all, but I learned the best language there is which is php and made a terrible thing with it and after it was done I was told that I got the database end of things all wrong and now it's like gaaah I know what I should do to fix it but the thing to do is rewrite the whole thing. i already rewrote it once to use a templating engine. but yes the bottom line is that hi, I'm a terrible programmer.
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Nov 30, 2014 18:40
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computer toucher posted:i already rewrote it once to use a templating engine. I thought PHP IS a templating engine
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Nov 30, 2014 18:44
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Valeyard posted:I thought PHP IS a templating engine yes it is. that doesn't stop people `echo`ing raw html elements at random like they're programming in 1999
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Nov 30, 2014 21:08
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my stepdads beer posted:yes it is. that doesn't stop people `echo`ing raw html elements at random like they're programming in 1999 it gets absolutely unmaintainable very fast. twig separates logic and presentation and autoescapes everything. no need to echo poo poo, just pass vars to twig and render a template. but yes lol php. I'll rebuild the thing in django when I feel like learning a new thing.
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Nov 30, 2014 22:11
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computer toucher posted:hi, a few months ago I wasn't a programmer at all, but I learned the best language there is which is php and made a terrible thing with it and after it was done I was told that I got the database end of things all wrong and now it's like gaaah I know what I should do to fix it but the thing to do is rewrite the whole thing. i already rewrote it once to use a templating engine. welcome to programming where it is often easier to abandon hope and try again than to actually do the right thing in the first place, and if you do the right thing in the first place, no-one will listen so there isn't any point
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Nov 30, 2014 22:15
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tef posted:welcome to programming where it is often easier to abandon hope and try again than to actually do the right thing in the first place, and if you do the right thing in the first place, no-one will listen so there isn't any point yeah. i balanced the first brick on it's end and built a house on top and now I'd need to turn that brick around so that the house stays intact. gently caress it, I'll leave it like it is since it works just fine and nobody's using it so who cares. it was a learning excercise and met that goal.
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Nov 30, 2014 22:19
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i recommend convincing them that the problem was in what they asked for not what you provided. or possibly that their requirements have changed. either way their best bet is to keep giving you money for working on it. (this is a general strategy, may not apply in this instance maybe)
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Nov 30, 2014 22:34
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computer toucher posted:hi, a few months ago I wasn't a programmer at all, but I learned the best language there is which is php and made a terrible thing with it and after it was done I was told that I got the database end of things all wrong and now it's like gaaah I know what I should do to fix it but the thing to do is rewrite the whole thing. i already rewrote it once to use a templating engine.
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Nov 30, 2014 22:44
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shoulda used .net
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Nov 30, 2014 22:46
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sometimes people think that since they spent all the time to make some software that they should try to fix it rather than do it all over again. this is untrue because most of the value is not in the pile of poo poo you made, but what you learnt whilst making GBS threads. so when you need to clean up your shitpile it might be easier to just do a new poo poo with what you learned from making GBS threads the first time
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Nov 30, 2014 23:05
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bobbilljim posted:sometimes people think that since they spent all the time to make some software that they should try to fix it rather than do it all over again. this is untrue because most of the value is not in the pile of poo poo you made, but what you learnt whilst making GBS threads. so when you need to clean up your shitpile it might be easier to just do a new poo poo with what you learned from making GBS threads the first time this but posting
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Dec 1, 2014 00:10
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code:
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Dec 1, 2014 00:17
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qntm posted:
I'm the colour CHAIR
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Dec 1, 2014 02:01
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computer toucher posted:it was a learning excercise and met that goal. this is a pretty good attitude to take with web apps, as fashion trends dominate so much that much of the frontend ends up being rewritten as it turns out last year's one size fits all approach didn't work, so maybe this year's will however there may be a point where your code is more responsible for data, and privacy, emails, names, passwords, and stuff, and it's kinda hard to write off trashing someone's identity as a learning experience or where your frontend code has to be usable by everyone. (  https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2012/01/20/user-testing-accessibility/ ) or where your website ends being used by scammers, spammers, and generally abusive people.and it's not so easy to write off the consequences of your actions. it would be nice if teams both managed consequences, but then again we have terms like technical debt but tbh it sounds like this is a good case of the eh, gently caress it, what's next, but it does pay some to have some foresight (actually hindsight, learning from previous terrible things, and bringing them up to prevent them being repeated)
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Dec 1, 2014 04:19
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eschaton posted:I'm the colour CHAIR i'm F11
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Dec 1, 2014 04:20
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computer toucher posted:yeah. i balanced the first brick on it's end and built a house on top and now I'd need to turn that brick around so that the house stays intact. gently caress it, I'll leave it like it is since it works just fine and nobody's using it so who cares. start learning design patterns and be sure to sketch everything out on paper before you start writing you'll still gently caress things up but it won't be as atrocious
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Dec 1, 2014 04:34
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tef posted:this is a pretty good attitude to take with web apps, as fashion trends dominate so much that much of the frontend ends up being rewritten as it turns out last year's one size fits all approach didn't work, so maybe this year's will Tef is sometimes just grumpy but this is 100% true
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Dec 1, 2014 04:51
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Necc0 posted:start learning design patterns and be sure to sketch everything out on paper use as many design patterns as you can - the more patterns you have in your design, the better it'll be
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Dec 1, 2014 04:52
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rotor posted:Tef is sometimes just grumpy but this is 100% true grumpiness is the appropriate reaction to our lovely industry
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Dec 1, 2014 05:32
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Forgall posted:They should have had somebody supervise you the whole way instead of just leaving you with it for several months. Reminds me of my first job (unpaid internship in anything but name really) where instead of teaching me poo poo they just took my untested unreviewed code and shoved it into production. there's no "they", I did the project just for me. they is google and snack overflow's "how do I added a columns to mysql?".
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Dec 1, 2014 05:43
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Do any of you have experience with negotiations involving non-domestic (remote) positions?
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Dec 1, 2014 05:49
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Necc0 posted:start learning design patterns this is probably the worst advice ever: - becoming a biologist? well better learn the taxonomy - a chemist? memorise the periodic table - a physicist? blah blah you get the point, and i might as well stop before i get to a car metaphor software design does not come from knowledge of a taxonomy it's an interesting book of it's time, like earlier work on structured programming, where things like for, if, and while got introduced, design patterns cemented the ideas of iterators, observers, but it turns out that many of the patterns described were often workarounds around language restrictions: builders stop mattering so much when you have named arguments, and there are some other examples i am too lazy to dredge up, but google for peter norvig on design patterns and whatver what usually happens from reading design patterns is instead of a directory structure of web/ api/ db/ core/ net/ you instead get one that looks like mediators/ facilitators/ intermediataries/ abstracts/ there are some books ~two decades old that are still relevant, but they are often much more about approach, technique, and practice, rather than classification. read the practice of programming
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Dec 1, 2014 05:53
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triple sulk posted:Do any of you have experience with negotiations involving non-domestic (remote) positions? http://sulk.yospos.net
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Dec 1, 2014 05:57
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God forbid you be a chemist that knows the elements of a physicist that knows f equals ma or an engineer that knows v equals ir gently caress all that you do you
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Dec 1, 2014 06:04
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tef posted:this is a pretty good attitude to take with web apps, as fashion trends dominate so much that much of the frontend ends up being rewritten as it turns out last year's one size fits all approach didn't work, so maybe this year's will this is true, I (think) I made a lot of the security/privacy parts right, it was the database handling that went wrong. tef posted:this is probably the worst advice ever: I probably should start by learning a real language. it all started with "lol kyber.ninja is unregistered and it's 15 dollars for a year *purchase*". the whole web thing started with "i want to put up a server and gently caress around with it". then it turned into "hey nginx is p cool", after that it was "editing flat html with nano sucks, how do I make a form to do this in the browser?" into "hmmm, I should probs put this in a database instead of flat files?" into "oh hey I wonder if I could build a secure user authentication and session storage logic" into "well hmm I'll make a discussion board with avatars and private messages and the works" when I realized that one table per thread is very much NOT the way you do databases but now everything leverages on that. and I even have separate databases for users, read history and messages since I didn't know any better. it works just fine but I can't really do a forums-wide search. topic search does work. it's here if you want to laff: https://kyber.ninja.
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Dec 1, 2014 06:08
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rotor posted:Tef is sometimes just grumpy but this is 100% true the middleware stuff is less flavour of the month driven, which is why you end up with those massive forms and wizards and other 90's desktop interactions, along with alert boxes. on the other hand, many web apps are often marketing portals. less techie places will often just change the copy and layout every couple of months to demonstrate work is being done. in tech, they need to keep updating it if they are to be seen as keeping up with their competitors, who are doing the same. and let's not forget constant a/b testing to work how to squeeze the last drop of revenue out. modern web development is less about domain experience and more about being able to keep atop of the changes and the fragile empires built out of hobbyist code on github. the browsers are finally moving at more than a glacial pace and it is terrifying watching everyone try and build a workable layer atop before giving up and getting it right this time. we did it, we finally got a x11 with a built in widget set: it now runs turing complete code and downloads a poo poo ton of assets before showing you a page where the webfonts haven't loaded, and we did it all via a matroshka layering of package management to concatenate files together. web development may go out of fashion but fashion will always be around in tech companies pre ipo it's a good investor story time "we're using the latest X and this is why we'll be better", post IPO it's "we're updating to the latest tech, so people will have confidence in us" or "we set the standards for what people use, so we have to update it to avoid the notion of being stale". although with some, the layout of the site has become the brand identity: amazon, but they still plough ahead in releasing new aws tech. similarly, the browser vendors are in a similar competition on features.
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Dec 1, 2014 06:15
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Bloody posted:God forbid you be a chemist that knows the elements of a physicist that knows f equals ma or an engineer that knows v equals ir gently caress all that you do you because science is about rote memorization of facts 
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Dec 1, 2014 06:16
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you're teaching people to pass a proxy of what makes a good scientist and being a bad one in the process. a good scientist may know that f = ma, knowing f = ma does not make you a good scientist. teaching through rote is an awful way to teach, and confuses knowledge for understanding. it's not memorizing f = ma, it's understanding the relationship, and how it fits into the larger context of newtonian physics. people tend to remember them if they're nudged to the solution rather than marched through it going back to code design patterns is a reference manual, and an out of date one at that. there has been some modern resurgence of them in ruby, which i can only see being useful because ruby's language design is of a similar vintage to what the book describes. it is not a good book for what has been asked. stop recommending it to beginners. it will not teach them to think about software, it will not teach them to write software. what it will do is give them a set of boiler plate for code and a bunch of names, which only fit specific languages rarely used by beginners.
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Dec 1, 2014 06:22
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a vintage language that has become vinegar
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Dec 1, 2014 06:30
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nb a similar book of the same period is "refactoring" and i believe this to be a better investment for beginners dealing with 90's oo languages), but again, beginners, eh.computer toucher posted:this is true, I (think) I made a lot of the security/privacy parts right, it was the database handling that went wrong. it's kinda hard but a top trick is don't collect any data because it's horrible and messy, and there are pretty standard idioms for passwords and poo poo, but you can often avoid them too. quote:I probably should start by learning a real language. eh i dunno they're all kinda unreal things, don't worry about which languages are "big boy languages", because doing so is trying to win an rear end in a top hat competition. (paul graham is current running champ with the blub paradox: if i am smart and i use the best language, and other people don't use my language, they must not be as smart as me qed) quote:it all started with "lol kyber.ninja is unregistered and it's 15 dollars for a year *purchase*". the whole web thing started with "i want to put up a server and gently caress around with it". then it turned into "hey nginx is p cool", after that it was "editing flat html with nano sucks, how do I make a form to do this in the browser?" into "hmmm, I should probs put this in a database instead of flat files?" into "oh hey I wonder if I could build a secure user authentication and session storage logic" into "well hmm I'll make a discussion board with avatars and private messages and the works" when I realized that one table per thread is very much NOT the way you do databases but now everything leverages on that. and I even have separate databases for users, read history and messages since I didn't know any better. it works just fine but I can't really do a forums-wide search. topic search does work. it's here if you want to laff: https://kyber.ninja. this is pretty much how all software in production gets written: a small prototype that works is iteratively hacked on, until the assumptions weaved throughout the code slows feature development down to an unprofitable state. which is why people either try and patch it up as they go - refactoring - or abandoning hope and trying again. if legacy code is one type, the other type of code is failures. often from a rewrite, a failure is a project that aims to "get it right first time" usually before that all important getting it working state. it can also be done iteratively, where a piece of code that doesn't work grows to add more features that don't work yet because fixing the bugs is too hard and it works on my machine. (software that doesn't hit production after three months should be taken out back and shot) so what i'm saying is: keep doing that thing you are doing, it seems to be working. scratch an itch, tug on a thread, grow your code, and know when it's time to move on to another project.
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Dec 1, 2014 06:35
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i have become much nicer to beginners when i realise how terrible the tools we expect them to use are welcome to a nightmare world of ever changing detail and monotonically increasing complexity, there aren't any docs but at least there is google and other people suffering online too, although many of them are total assholes with an astounding sense of entitlement
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Dec 1, 2014 06:38
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but hey if you're a guy, white enough, no or little social skills, and parents with enough money to get you a computer and pay your internet bills, you can self teach your way to a series of exploitative jobs with low salaries, or join in the gold rush in sf for far better money, but the company makes far higher margins on your work
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Dec 1, 2014 06:43
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but frankly as deals with capitalism go it's pretty good if you have the option
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Dec 1, 2014 06:43
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tef posted:but hey if you're a guy, white enough, no or little social skills, and parents with enough money to get you a computer and pay your internet bills, you can self teach your way to a series of exploitative jobs with low salaries worst crocodile tears ever. average wages for software developers hover between 3x and 4x the median wage in america. nobody doing IT work in 2014 is hurting for money because they're underpaid. tef posted:[...] but the company makes far higher margins on your work this is called "work" by definition people pay you less than the value the organization derives. even at not-for-profits. if you did not deliver a surplus, you wouldn't work there. yes, it's exploitative. that's not the point. sometimes work is a good deal?
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Dec 1, 2014 06:57
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