|
-Fish- posted:The Secret History of Star Wars also includes the transcript of an interview from the seventies where Lucas mentioned midichlorians, I can't cite where in the book though as I only have it on audiobook. I think I've stated this before, but my big issue with midichlorians isn't that weren't in the original or even that it somehow undermined the mystique of The Force, but that nothing is done with them! They get brought up in three scenes in Episode I, and just after dramatically changing how we understand Star Wars' meta-physics, they go completely forgotten until Episode III. Palpatine just inserts the word into his yarn, but he could have just said 'The Force' instead and it would have carried the same meaning. In fact, I have a theory that George was paying attention to fan criticism and changed the prequels in response. He's just too proud to admit it (and frankly, I can't say I entirely blame him). If I had really thought about it in 2000, I would have guess that the Clone Wars would have something to do with midichlorians. It's not sentient beings that are being cloned, but midichlorian-enriched bacteria. The Trade Federation could mass-produce Force-users, something that would make them a credible threat after getting stomped on in the first movie. But I'm guessing that George heard how much negative reaction the concept got and so instead we got...Boba Fett's dad  . The same thing happened to Jar-Jar. In the making-of footage during TPM, he says that Jar Jar plays a key role in the Trilogy, but after the backlash his role in the series drops off exponentially.
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 21:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 04:02 |
|
|
-Fish- posted:The Secret History of Star Wars also includes the transcript of an interview from the seventies where Lucas mentioned midichlorians, I can't cite where in the book though as I only have it on audiobook. Looking through my PDF copy of The Secret History, I don't see this section (although I do know there are several versions of Secret History so maybe it's in different one). The closest thing I could find is when the author quotes a bloc from a (now defunct) article on Salon.com where he compares the midichlorians to the lenses from the Lensmen books. The timeline at the end of the book also notes that the first instance of midichlorians appearing is in the second draft of the TPM script from late 1995.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 22:07
|
|
|
From an EU perspective midichlorians never bothered me since they make it crystal clear that you cannot transfer midichlorians to a non-force sensitive. Which means even if the midi's are what allow you to tap into The Force, The Force is still a mystical thing that cannot be science'd into usefulness by just anyone. It's like a wizard and his staff. Sure, the staff is what lets a wizard control magic and in most fantasy you can't just grab his staff and use it if you're not a wizard yourself. So it's not the staff that gives the wizard his power, it just helps him control it. Midichlorians are a genetic wizards staff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 22:20
|
|
|
Wookieepedia seems to think there's a mention in The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film. I haven't got the book, so can't check, unfortunately.SirPhoebos posted:The same thing happened to Jar-Jar. In the making-of footage during TPM, he says that Jar Jar plays a key role in the Trilogy, but after the backlash his role in the series drops off exponentially. Thinking back on it, I can't think of a fictional character that was so widely despised by everyone, as Jar Jar.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:Wookieepedia seems to think there's a mention in The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film. I haven't got the book, so can't check, unfortunately. This was what I was talking about, where Rinzler later admitted on his blog that this reference was completely fabricated by 2007 Lucas to make it seem like he talked about midichlorians in 1977. The fact that it's still there on Wookieepedia is a good example to the cult mentality behind the people who run the site.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 22:36
|
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:Thinking back on it, I can't think of a fictional character that was so widely despised by everyone, as Jar Jar. Barney the Dinosaur.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:This was what I was talking about, where Rinzler later admitted on his blog that this reference was completely fabricated by 2007 Lucas to make it seem like he talked about midichlorians in 1977. The fact that it's still there on Wookieepedia is a good example to the cult mentality behind the people who run the site. What the gently caress.  Jesus christ George. The one consolation with the Wookieepedia nerds is when Disney said they were altering the levels of canon, and you could feel their outcry.  Didn't even had to look, you just knew that they were exploding over it. Metal Loaf posted:Barney the Dinosaur. Oh yeah. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 22:50
|
|
|
Since Star Wars fans are such wonderful people:BBC News posted:However, there were more unpleasant reactions for 22-year-old Boyega, who rose to fame in the British film Attack The Block.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 22:57
|
|
|
The greatest dilemma for racist Star War fans; accept a black stormtrooper or have an incomplete SW7 action figure collection.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:02
|
|
|
Stormtroopers aren't all clones though so clearly whoever said that isn't a true star wars fan/canon sperg.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:10
|
|
|
Every time that dude pops up with his panic face I think of Tag and Bink. They should get one of the spin-offs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:10
|
|
|
quote:Star Wars fans complained that a Storm Trooper couldn't be black "because they are all cloned from Jango Fett". See what you've wrought, George? --- That's incredibly lovely of them. I wonder why the racists are crawling out of their sewer for this guy, considering how all the other films have actors of various ethnicities? Or did they just not notice Billy D. Williams and Samuel L. Jackson? (That's rhetorical by the way - I know what the answer would be  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:18
|
|
|
Attack of the Block owned, Boyega owns gently caress you rascist dudes. It is getting to the point now I'm wondering what internet sub-culture isn't crawling with creepy weird nerds.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
Yesterday I finished watching The Clone Wars; I'd seen a few episodes, but after watching it marathon mode from start to finish, I think it was actually really, really good. I can honestly believe that this Anakin, who we actually see being a bona fide hero (rather than being a whiny guy who murdered a bunch of women and children) going over to the dark side is a real tragedy, and with the last arc, I can buy that he has very honest personal reasons to distrust the Jedi Council.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:27
|
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:See what you've wrought, George? Billy D Williams and Samuel L. Jackson were not the main characters while the stormtrooper guy may very well be based off earlier leaked info. Yeah, that's basically it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:39
|
|
|
No you see they're like the Warhammer 40k Space Marines and can alter their skin tone as needed*!  *Except the Salamander Chapter who are permanently Black-face. Yep.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:39
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:Attack of the Block owned, Boyega owns gently caress you rascist dudes. Seriously. When the cast was announced and he was there, and especially as an apparently-central role, I was ecstatic. Attack the Block is one of my absolute favorite sci-fi films from the last 5-10 years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
I wonder if he'll fake an American accent.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 00:31
|
|
|
Jedi Knight Luigi posted:I wonder if he'll fake an American accent. I hope not, and if he really is part of the empire it would make sense for him to have a British accent.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 04:21
|
|
|
Unctuous Cretin posted:Every time that dude pops up with his panic face I think of Tag and Bink. They should get one of the spin-offs. Ahh yes, that's why it seemed familiar.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 10:36
|
|
|
SirPhoebos posted:I think I've stated this before, but my big issue with midichlorians isn't that weren't in the original or even that it somehow undermined the mystique of The Force, but that nothing is done with them! They get brought up in three scenes in Episode I, and just after dramatically changing how we understand Star Wars' meta-physics, they go completely forgotten until Episode III. Palpatine just inserts the word into his yarn, but he could have just said 'The Force' instead and it would have carried the same meaning. Maybe there were better ways to do this in the context of a movie, but I can't think of them. I think it would be a tough to sell Qui-Gon's conviction that Anakin is "the chosen one" to both the Jedi Council and audience based on winning a pod race versus of a blood measurement that is higher than Yoda's.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 15:21
|
|
|
"Yo this dude is like hella stronger than Yoda in the force." There, I just saved the world from midichlorians.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
Cheesus posted:The primary purpose of midichlorians was to unambiguously establish how strong Anakin was with the Force. He grows up to be loving Darth Vader! Just how much unambiguity do you need?? And no one questions how strong he is with the Force either! That was never the issue the Jedi had with accepting Anakin. Gah, my head hurts, I shouldn't talk about Star Wars while also listening to Sports Radio bisecting an expiring Bears season. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Dec 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 19:29
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:That's incredibly lovely of them. I wonder why the racists are crawling out of their sewer for this guy, considering how all the other films have actors of various ethnicities? Or did they just not notice Billy D. Williams and Samuel L. Jackson? (That's rhetorical by the way - I know what the answer would be Those are all bit parts, it's seeming from the trailer like Boyega maybe is the lead for this one, either the Luke or the Han solo. I've seen a ton of comments about how a black lead in Star Wars "makes it hard to relate for most of the audience" and "is just political agenda and has no place in Star Wars" and other comments to that effect. Star Wars, like Hockey, is just a very white piece of pop culture with only a few token minorities, and the racist nerds are just loving furious that one of their refuges is being taken away from them. Cheesus posted:The primary purpose of midichlorians was to unambiguously establish how strong Anakin was with the Force. This excuse only makes sense if you consider Anakin being "the chosen one" and the entire structure of his arc as such necessary to the overall story or a good idea. And even then I can think of a million better ways to convey someone as having potential with the force than Qui Gon standing in someone's back yard talking on his cell phone about blood microbes. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 2, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 21:42
|
|
|
Is the Boyega whining mostly a twitter thing or what? Whatever, gently caress those guys.Metal Loaf posted:Yesterday I finished watching The Clone Wars; I'd seen a few episodes, but after watching it marathon mode from start to finish, I think it was actually really, really good. I can honestly believe that this Anakin, who we actually see being a bona fide hero (rather than being a whiny guy who murdered a bunch of women and children) going over to the dark side is a real tragedy, and with the last arc, I can buy that he has very honest personal reasons to distrust the Jedi Council.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 08:31
|
|
|
Yeah, I've always thought that redeeming Anakin was the main point of the Clone Wars. Anakin in the movies is always an rear end in a top hat. Why it would surprise anyone that the guy who's always been an rear end in a top hat would suddenly become even more of an rear end in a top hat, is beyond me. The Clone Wars Anakin is a compassionate, heroic guy...who's also too impulsive, too attached to people, and has anger issues. That guy I can see people being shocked when he went all the way dark.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 10:14
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:I've been watching a few episodes at a time (Up to the middle of season 2) and this is pretty much my reaction so far. Even the Jar Jar episodes aren't that bad. I also enjoy how a) the series does a far better job of humanising the clones than Karen Traviss ever did and b) the rank-and-file battle droids are basically resigned to how crap they are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 12:14
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:Even the Jar Jar episodes aren't that bad. Seeing as how Jar Jar is more or less an animated character to begin with, he works a lot better in an animated environment. Plus, in his final outing he gets to mack on an alien chick and be an action hero alongside Masterin' Mace Windu.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 12:22
|
|
|
Wow, that makes me embarrassed to be a Star Wars fan. Also stormtroopers are only jango clones during the clone wars. after they are either remaining jango clones/conscripts/recruits/clones of other people. So gently caress those people for being stupid bigots and wrong about star wars. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 14:08
|
|
|
Somehow, I don't think they'd even bother with the clone system at that point now. It'd be just cheaper to conscript. But yeah, gently caress those guys yet again. I hope they keep adding main characters who aren't white males to keep loving with them now.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 14:10
|
|
|
I kinda doubt
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 14:43
|
|
|
Metal Loaf posted:I also enjoy how a) the series does a far better job of humanising the clones than Karen Traviss ever did and b) the rank-and-file battle droids are basically resigned to how crap they are.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 15:47
|
|
|
Drone posted:I kinda doubt This was explicitly the case in the old EU. One of the Battlefront games even had a level where the Empire shuts down the Kamino facilities. There is a clone stormtrooper in Tarkin but he's shown as being old and kind of getting worn out by that point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Jar-Jar episodes I can skip, but the stupid loving comic-relief droids are the number one reason I gave up on Clone Wars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:This was explicitly the case in the old EU. One of the Battlefront games even had a level where the Empire shuts down the Kamino facilities. It was a pretty neat level at that, and the story made sense. The Kaminoans decided that the Galactic Empire wasn't exactly what they had signed up to create an army for, and rebelled, creating a new clone army to fight for them. What ensues is the only time in the game where Imperial stormtroopers fight clone soldiers, and it ends with the Empire deciding that an army of clones of one man is too susceptible to corruption, and so the Imperial military begins recruiting a diverse range of soldiers and cloning the best of them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 21:53
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Jar-Jar episodes I can skip, but the stupid loving comic-relief droids are the number one reason I gave up on Clone Wars. Which are the most integral and most known part of Star Wars right next to the lightsaber and Darth Vader. You can't do Star Wars without them. Also, I think George Lucas mandated the number of droid stories every season and personally oversaw these episodes, which doesn't help the quality.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2014 13:29
|
|
|
Most of the EU assumed stormtroopers were clones implicitly, but various sources indicated that by the end of the Clone Wars they switched from expensive Kaminoan cloning to cheaper GeNode and Spaarti processes, with exceptional soldiers in regular units being used for new genetic lines. There were also "Tantors", people recruited into the stormtroopers regularly, but they were a small, public-relations part of the process.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 16:05
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:Most of the EU assumed stormtroopers were clones implicitly, but various sources indicated that by the end of the Clone Wars they switched from expensive Kaminoan cloning to cheaper GeNode and Spaarti processes, with exceptional soldiers in regular units being used for new genetic lines. There were also "Tantors", people recruited into the stormtroopers regularly, but they were a small, public-relations part of the process. Ugh you made me go to Wookieespergia. Wookieepedia posted:By 0 BBY, roughly one-third of the stormtroopers were clones based on the Fett template, while recruits steadily became the majority within the Stormtrooper Corps.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 17:31
|
|
Drone posted:Ugh you made me go to Wookieespergia. I dunno dude, everyone treated Stormtroopers like they were a non-renewable resource in the early EU stuff, and 2006-era stuff indicated just what they switched to from Kaminoan models. I think that that makes more sense than the fear of letting stormtroopers-interchangeable faceless minions- be manufactured human beings.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 17:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 04:02 |
|
|
Effectronica posted:I dunno dude, everyone treated Stormtroopers like they were a non-renewable resource in the early EU stuff, and 2006-era stuff indicated just what they switched to from Kaminoan models. I think that that makes more sense than the fear of letting stormtroopers-interchangeable faceless minions- be manufactured human beings. The early EU was also set post-RotJ, where the basic assumption was that the Empire was on the back-pedal. The idea that all Stormtroopers were clones from the beginning blatantly ignores what's in the films. The stormtroopers had different voices and you can see that while their body types were similar, they weren't identical. And if Lucas'
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 18:10
|
|