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I want Shovel Knight as a character even though I know that's pretty much never ever going to happen. It would still be super neat. And a stage in Tower of Fate with some of Shovel Knight's amazing music.
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Dec 2, 2014 01:53
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bonzibuddy64 posted:Who do you guys think will be added as DLC characters after Mewtwo hits the eShop? I would say Ray Mk II Are his and Isaac's assist trophies still hanging around in the game?
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Dec 2, 2014 01:56
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Or they can pull someone from Hyrule Warriors. I would play as anime boob witch Cia except I'd get 3-stocked in every match because she never scores.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:02
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Pink Gold Baby Cat Toad (which would be amazing actually)
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Dec 2, 2014 02:11
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I made a dumb Captain Falcon video today. It ends with the coolest kill I've ever gotten in any Smash Bros.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:13
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Nintendo must get in contact with Hudson Soft to bring another classic videogame character to Smash Bros. A beloved, iconic character that's fondly remembered by Nintendo and videogame fans, who is as famous as Sonic and Megaman are. I am talking, of course, about Master Higgins.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:25
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Yo can you imagine the alternate universe where Data East is still alive and we got Dashin' Desperadoes in smash? Well that's all I wanted to post.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:28
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Blackheart posted:Nintendo must get in contact with Hudson Soft to bring another classic videogame character to Smash Bros. A beloved, iconic character that's fondly remembered by Nintendo and videogame fans, who is as famous as Sonic and Megaman are. I am talking, of course, about Master Higgins. If you want to talk "as famous as Sonic and Megaman" I don't know why we aren't discussing Bubsy. 
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Dec 2, 2014 02:30
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:I can't figure Rosalina out. What's the strategy with her? She's very positioning dependent. You're generally playing a mid-range game to keep people at just the right distance so you hurt them but they don't get to hurt you. When playing defensively, Luma absorbs hits and since both Luma and Rosalina attack, they can often cancel an opponent's attacks while the other one lands a hit. Her side B can be good for interrupting forward-moving attacks, and her dash attack is fairly quick and good at interrupting slower long range attacks. Luma can be positioned away from Rosalina with neutral B and then create situations where an opponent has to react to attacks from 2 directions or Rosalina punishes the opponent for either trying to get past Luma or for attacking Luma. She can be difficult to attack in the air without proper timing because her forward air and neutral air cover wide different wide arcs. Her up air and down air are good kill moves. If you can land her smashes, they're fairly decent, especially the up smash. Her forward smash starts a bit more slowly now and her down smash has more recovery, but both are situationally good too. Her forward smash can be angled a bit. Whether you're playing offensively or defensively largely depends on your opponent. She has the tools to move in on a projectile character but she can put up a decent wall against characters that try to rush in on her. TenaciousJ fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 02:35
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Rosalina is probably the most unpleasant character to fight against, so the strategy is just to show up and piss everyone else off until they make dumb mistakes out of frustration.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:41
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CatsPajamas posted:Maple Leaf, you seemed to have a good grasp Smash 4 since you were posting about your early release copy, plus you write good, well-written posts. It would be neat to hear your thoughts on what makes these characters good, and also I'd be really interested in hearing what other characters you thought had potential but aren't currently in the limelight. Diddy is, well, bananas thanks largely to his up air. That thing can KO at like 70-80% and his down throw allows you to effortlessly follow up with one or two up airs. He has ridiculous recovery (his side B is great and doesn't leave him helpless), good projectiles (that loving banana), and is fairly quick. I've heard the nerf has made Grenjinja less awesome, because his up smash was crazy good but apparently it has a lot of ending lag now making it less safe.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:42
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Just wanted to drop in and say it's loving bullshit that if you die to Master Fortress you have to start all the way from the hands, and that any of the difficulty challenges are also bullshit due to the fact that you can't use continues without the difficulty lowering, thanks.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:58
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Custom equipment. 'course that doesn't help for the cheevo for clearing 9.0 without customs, but...y'know. (also, my first attempt at the Fortress today, and I lost my last stock to the lava on the wall around the last loving core)
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Dec 2, 2014 03:18
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Blackheart posted:Nintendo must get in contact with Hudson Soft to bring another classic videogame character to Smash Bros. A beloved, iconic character that's fondly remembered by Nintendo and videogame fans, who is as famous as Sonic and Megaman are. I am talking, of course, about Master Higgins. I was waiting for a punchline, then just ended up agreeing. I want to kickflip (while wearing proper safety gear, obviously) off of Sonic's head while throwing an axe.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:21
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Blackheart posted:Nintendo must get in contact with Hudson Soft to bring another classic videogame character to Smash Bros. A beloved, iconic character that's fondly remembered by Nintendo and videogame fans, who is as famous as Sonic and Megaman are. I am talking, of course, about Master Higgins. By Hudson Soft you mean Konami since they own all of Hudson's assets. And Takahashi Meijin/Master Higgens was already in the Smash-clone Dreammix TV World Fighters along with Simon Belmont and Optimus Prime.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:29
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Random Stranger posted:By Hudson Soft you mean Konami since they own all of Hudson's assets. And Takahashi Meijin/Master Higgens was already in the Smash-clone Dreammix TV World Fighters along with Simon Belmont and Optimus Prime. It's OK, Konami can lend its own famous character, Konami Man, to Smash Brothers too.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:32
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It's interesting that Greninja and Sheik are still considered top 5 despite having a lot of the nerf bat from the last patch.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:34
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CatsPajamas posted:Maple Leaf, you seemed to have a good grasp Smash 4 since you were posting about your early release copy, plus you write good, well-written posts. It would be neat to hear your thoughts on what makes these characters good, and also I'd be really interested in hearing what other characters you thought had potential but aren't currently in the limelight. Haha, well, I don't think a lot of people are too keen on reading a wall of sperg regarding frame data, hitboxes, priorities, etc., so I'll just give the bullet points. Disclaimer: there's still a whole lot of sperg. Diddy: Diddy's down throw combos into anything. Diddy's biggest strengths is that almost all of his attacks all come out crazy, wicked fast. We're talking less-than-ten-frames fast. He may not run as fast as Sheik or Greninja but his moves come out faster than actual ninjas do. His recovery is very, very good. Monkey Flip retains its momentum at the end, unlike Brawl or P:M, so he can launch himself from the blastzone and make it back just fine. The Rocket Barrels go just as far as Brawl's if you point them straight up, but they actually go much, much farther if you point them sideways. The banana's not quite the menace it was before, but if it lands and trips his opponent, Diddy gets a free anything he wants. Rosalina: Honestly, by herself, she's not the strongest. She doesn't weigh very much; she's a huge target; her recovery isn't amazing. Her attacks used to be much more threatening before the patch. What really makes her scary is Luma. Luma has roughly 50 HP. He can just stand in front of Rosalina and tank projectiles, totally shutting down Diddy's Banana, Samus's Charge Shot and missiles, Link's arrows, etc. And Rosalina can use her down+b to make any projectile disappear anyway, extending Luma's life. Star Bits acts as a quick, wide wall that can be used to disrupt any sort of approach or attack. One of Rosalina's customs turns Star Bits into Falco's laser, where Luma only shoots one, straight bit, but it does 5% for every hit. Luma hits like a freight train, especially his smash attacks. Being able to control more of the stage is always a huge plus, so planting Luma on closer to her opponent and using him to attack not only pressures her opponent immensely, but keeps herself safe. And if her opponent gets past the starfish, she can just call him back. All that said, Luma is pretty fragile. If your character of choice has an attack that will instantly kill a Mii Fighter in Classic Mode (for example: Donkey Kong's Ground Pound) it'll hit Luma really far into the air, and Rosalina has no control over Luma if he's in a tumble. It's pretty easy to hit Luma off the stage and force Rosalina to fight you one-on-one for thirteen seconds. Sheik: Like Diddy, it's mostly in her frame data. Sheik doesn't hit very hard but specializes in hitting you so many times that most characters can't respond to anything she does. If you think you are ever safe, her Bouncing Fish will find you. It's not uncommon to be way off the stage just for Sheik to bounce at you, and you don't airdodge because you don't expect it. A lot of her attacks, her aerials especially, cover a wide range in addition to hitting really fast. Most of Sheik's strengths rely on tricks that only the pros would really look out for - cancelling her Bouncing Fish by sliding off edges, or how quickly she can cancel her dash with a shield, etc. She works best by overwhelming you with poo poo you likely haven't ever seen before, and even if you know to watch for them, it's difficult to react to anything because she's already doing something else. On the flipside, if you can take away her Bouncing Fish, Sheik actually has the worst recovery in the game, so that's a weakness you can try to exploit. Greninja: Greninja's up throw combos into anything. His running up-smash hits above him and on either side of him, meaning he's running full-tilt and cancelling it immediately with a very powerful move that protects him on all sides. Your best bet is to shield it and punish it. It's a little less dangerous now, after the patch, but it hasn't lost any of its damage or KO potential. BUT, if Greninja knows you're going to shield it, he can just dash-grab instead, and his up-throw combos into anything. If Greninja's running right at you, it's a coin toss for you. His back air is probably the best back air in the game. It hits hard; it hits fast; it ends fast; it's multi-hit so airdodging it is difficult; it has very little landing lag; it has a huge hitbox; etc etc. Hydro Pump is the rudest way to deny someone of their recovery. It's much stronger than Mario's FLUDD and it can potentially hit in a much wider range. A friend of mine abuses this by short-hop Hydro Pumping into the ground: the blast doesn't last very long, but it's absurdly fast and strong and it immediately puts Greninja back into neutral. Lucario: Lucario is my character of choice  Lucario's up throw combos into anything. At low percents, he's very, very weak: every attack does only 3 or 4 percent. But he trades having zero attack power to speak of by having a combo game that's better than most. Once Lucario takes roughly 60% damage, he can start doing some real damage, and he only gets stronger the more damage he takes. All of his smash attacks, while very slow, can kill absurdly early. Force Palm gets more range the more percentage Lucario has. At max Aura, its possible to cover half of FD with a single strike. And, if you can land the grab, it's also one of his best kill moves (if you'll pardon the gross, icky sperg, his grab comes out on frame 9, while his fsmash comes out on frame 25, nearly three times as long). Aura Sphere is large and slow enough to trap any possible landing your opponent tries to make. At max Aura, it can kill as low as 60%. Its charging animation has its own hitbox, which refreshes all his other moves if just one "tick" lands. At max Aura, his fully-charged upsmash does 48%. That's always fun. His recovery is easily the best in the game. Lucario's biggest trappings is that his range isn't the best; his attacks all come out rather slowly (especially compared to faster characters like Diddy); and that he needs to be in trouble himself before he can be a threat. He relies mostly on his opponent loving up and capitalizing on that. But being able to kill whenever the gently caress he feels like is a pretty decent trade. Refer to a post I made in the 3DS thread for more. Sonic: In the proper hands, Sonic is not an aggressive character. He picks and chooses when to go in, and if he doesn't like his odds, he'll either hold his spindash or he'll run away until he likes them again. Homing Attack has a much wider lock-on radius than ever, allowing him to lock-on from almost the length of Battlefield away. He can cancel his dash attack with shield (you have to be almost frame-perfect, though). His side+b can cancel into any aerial after a jump. I've been hit by side+b into neutral air into up air into up air into spring-up air. The more he mixes it up, the fresher, and more threatening, every other move of his becomes. In Brawl and P:M, if you were hit off-stage, you could charge his down+b, and, if you jumped within a certain amount of frames after firing, he'd be put into his normal double-jump animation but with his down+b's momentum. Sort of like Wario's weird vectoring glitch, but as a feature. I don't know if it's still in, but if it is, his recovery would be among the best in a pro's hands. His fsmash has great range, very little cooldown, and is one of his best kill options. His Spring is another really rude gimping tool, but because it knocks his opponent out of helpless, it's not the greatest. Sonic's biggest weakness would probably be his kill power. He has no issue at all racking up a lot of damage in a hurry, but if he can't land his kill moves (fsmash, back air, upsmash and maybe Homing Attack), he'll have a hard time winning the match, especially since he loses his combo game once his spin dash stops hitting you so softly. But all of this is based on information we have now. Ask me again in a year, when we've had more tournaments and there's been more matches and people figure out what beats what. As for characters I think would be good if they got more attention... they'd be, in no particular order (and without making this post longer than it is by explaining why): Zero Suit Samus, Shulk, ROB, Captain Falcon, Mega Man, possibly Mario. As an aside, Villager might be the best doubles partner in the game. Maple Leaf fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 03:37
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Thanks Maple Leaf, it has been a pleasure
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Dec 2, 2014 03:44
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Yoshi deserves a mention for a future top tier if he's not there already. His aerial game feels incredibly strong due to large hit boxes and multiple hits. My perception might be colored as a Rosalina main though.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:50
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Maple Leaf please talk about how great Bowser Jr is thank you
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Dec 2, 2014 03:52
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I know For Glory will never be a good representation of the actual tiers, but I have never seen a Yoshi lose.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:53
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Wild Knight posted:I know For Glory will never be a good representation of the actual tiers, but I have never seen a Yoshi lose. I don't think I've ever actually lost to a Yoshi in For Glory, as long as we're bringing out anecdotes
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Dec 2, 2014 03:54
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R.O.B. 
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Dec 2, 2014 03:57
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Macaluso posted:Maple Leaf please talk about how great Bowser Jr is thank you I'm pretty sure he's not  Both of his recovery options are heavily telegraphed and his strongest attacks are after he's used Abandon Ship and has thus put himself in danger. He has very little combo game; his cannon is slow and obvious and his Mecha Koopa can just be blocked, or even picked up and used against him, removing both of his projectile options. His smashes are all laggy and weak. The only thing he really has going for him is a unique shield gimmick with his car.Ometeotl posted:R.O.B. ROB can get a lot of distance, but it's slow; it's not an attack (you can attack out of it but that'll drop you like a rock and waste more gas); and, unlike with literally every other character, hitting him out of it does not give it back to him. If you're going strictly by distance, sure, ROB's is pretty good.
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Dec 2, 2014 04:00
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you're dead to me maple leaf
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Dec 2, 2014 04:05
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RyokoTK posted:I want Shovel Knight as a character even though I know that's pretty much never ever going to happen. It would still be super neat. And a stage in Tower of Fate with some of Shovel Knight's amazing music. If we're going with those never happens, Totoro please.
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Dec 2, 2014 04:06
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Original guy was way lonelier. She at least had someone to hold the camera, he had to draw a caricature of himself.
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Dec 2, 2014 04:12
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ijyt posted:If we're going with those never happens, Totoro please. Laurel and Hardy as the new Ice Climbers
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Dec 2, 2014 04:12
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Is there a support group for people who really want Lucario Amiibos
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Dec 2, 2014 05:14
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Just a heads up, but apparently some people are getting an error code when they try to play Smash after the new update. If it happens, don't try to format your system, as that will result in your Wii U essentially being bricked.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:42
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My buddy got a Link amiibo and it plays like a total bitch. It constantly rolls away and spams projectiles, it's level 50 but I can use any character with a reflector and he'll happily sit on the other side of the stage and kill himself one arrow at a time. I'm guessing this is because he got the majority of his training in 4-6 player matches where he'd have to play defensively, but man he has picked up some really stupid habits- he usually up+B's over the ledge onto the stage, and whenever someone misses an attack his first instinct is to jump away and neutral-air. Or maybe it's because the amiibo has some crooked eyes painted on. I really want to get a Samus amiibo and teach it to slow walk towards you like the terminator
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Dec 2, 2014 05:46
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TheKingofSprings posted:Just a heads up, but apparently some people are getting an error code when they try to play Smash after the new update. If it happens, don't try to format your system, as that will result in your Wii U essentially being bricked. How the hell does this even happen? This is like updating an app and having it error out only to have your phone stop working after doing so.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:48
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It seems like everytime I play a Charizard online, they wreck me. I feel like he's underrated.
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Dec 2, 2014 05:58
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when I use Charizard it either results in them quitting or also using Charizard for the next match, I think he's my favourite heavyweight
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Dec 2, 2014 06:13
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Fhate posted:Having difficulty dealing with good Links as Robin. As Wario or Charizard I can beat the piss out of Link, and I'm not to shabby against him as Lucina, but goddamn it does he annoy me as Robin. His projectiles come out fast and repeatedly so it's difficult to approach him and can't just sit at range, and in melee range his pokes are faster and have greater range than mine. I've had mild success baiting his attacks and whomping him during recovery, but all it takes is a few well timed up smashes and a forward smash and I'm toast. Not sure how useful this'll be for you, but I think this mostly depends on the distance you have between yourself and Link--if he's really far away then all he can really do is shoot arrows, which gives you time to replenish equipment and charge up thoron. The arrows are pretty heavily telegraphed so you can probably shield it or just jump once the bow is drawn. In my experience, Links tend to approach at that point in order to use the boomerang. At that point, you can hop over and throw out an arcfire or ride the gale and surprise him. The latter's sort of situational but you might be able to sneak in a levin sword forward air or neutral air, I guess? Mid-range or closer, however, it's probably going to be Robin putting on pressure. I play a super aggressive Robin (aka the wrong way to play Robin) and I think his tilts and fire jab are super useful tools in general if you're on the ground. Forward air and neutral air (levin or bronze sword) if you're not. Down tilt comes out extremely fast, forward tilt is great for getting people off of you. Link's movements are still a little rigid so capitalize on that. Arcfire is still pretty likely to be what's going to give you your openings. Robin's game is pretty much entirely based around prediction and punishes, so practice makes perfect for basically all of his match-ups. Powershielding is especially helpful here and neutral air is great for gimping provided Link's not too high up, particularly since Robin has awesome recovery so you can comfortably make it back even after chasing him off the stage. Hopefully that gives you some ideas, sorry if this wasn't all that helpful!
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Dec 2, 2014 06:18
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Maple Leaf posted:Big and good effortpost on why top tiers are top tiers.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:32
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I agree that Sheik is top tier which is kind of funny since I never see anyone use her. She's so loving good. Maple Leaf, something you didn't cover for her (and maybe I'm wrong about it being good) is her up b. Sure, it's not incredible as a recovery, but what I've found it is way better for than ever before is getting an easy ko. Anytime you know your opponent is going to be 1: rolling towards you 2: spot dodging or 3: attacking you from above you can pop it and it's ludicrously effective. It kills at lower percent than bouncing fish, is extremely hard to see coming since it has a very subtle animation, and actually gives you some invincibility frames (although they're a little weird to predict). Plus even if you whiff with it your opponent has to guess if you're going left or right in order to punish you on it.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:56
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Plus, her returning teleport also has both a hitbox (not a KO like the initial teleport) and a windbox, making it kinda tricky to punish.
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Dec 2, 2014 06:59
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Earlier today I died as Ike because the windbox of sheik's up b pushed me off the edge while i was holding Ike's eruption (i do this because i like trying to edgeguard with it even though its bad) and I fell like a moron.
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Dec 2, 2014 07:01
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