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Michaellaneous posted:Honestly my best runs were made with Lazarus. He has enough punching power to get easily all the way to mom, and you really need to focus on getting items that works well, and especially Dark Bum. I don't understand how this is possible. My best runs(excepting Azazel, lol) are with Judas and Cain. Laz just starts with so little damage, and I pretty much have learned to suicide myself whenever the first health upgrade appears so I can make him survivable later. He's second only to Eve for me in terms of how hard you have to work to get him to a usable state. Now that I've beat boss rush with him it's not so bad because I can take my time, but drat it sucked when I was trying to both balance time spent and opportunities for not completely sucking poo poo at everything.
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Dec 2, 2014 13:12
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| # ? May 16, 2024 00:14 |
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^ I think you're mixing up Lazarus and Azazel there. I too am having a hard time with Lazarus, his extra life doesn't seem to help much. Edit: This was a response to Michaellaneous' post on the last page. Weird Sandwich fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 13:13
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It seems like the on paper conceit with Lazarus is that he basically gets 3 free devil deals, and then a damage upgrade after that. However, doing so little base damage, it's difficult to survive to make use of that properly without wasting health upgrades along the way. So it doesn't really work out the way you might theoretically assume it could work out. I've never had a run where I felt I used those 3 hearts and his extra life for decent value. I think it could happen, but it just tends not to. Maybe for people who are better players it works out more often. It strikes me as strange in a game where Azazel exists that Lazarus should carry such a steep penalty in order to "balance" him. ErIog fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 13:17
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 I am so, so sorry. Of course I meant Azazel.
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Dec 2, 2014 13:59
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Is there a glitch with mongo baby? I picked it up and all of my familiars disappeared. I also copped a tears downgrade for some reason
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Dec 2, 2014 14:01
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I finally got my first quadruple Brimstone today and it's just as beautiful as I imagined.  In the same run I became Guppy and had two Pretty Flies combined with BFF and Guardian Angel for complete bullet immunity. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 14:09
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Kanfy posted:I finally got my first quadruple Brimstone today and it's just as beautiful as I imagined. Now get psychic tears. It's so beautiful.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:27
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I think you're thinking about Azazel there.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:32
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Inacio posted:Now get psychic tears. I actually had the book but Guppy's Head was more useful at the time. Also the interaction between quad Brimstone and Guppy is pretty funny, I end every room with 20-30 flies around me as if everything else wasn't enough of an overkill.  "Come on, gimme a hug." Kanfy fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 14:34
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Ghost Head posted:Is there a glitch with mongo baby? I picked it up and all of my familiars disappeared. I also copped a tears downgrade for some reason There's definitely a glitch. First time I picked him up, I had like 3 familiars already which really sucked... but the next floor I got the Sack of Pennies and suddenly all my familiars were back  Unrelatedly; gently caress Steven  I've played around 140 hours now and the only two things I'm missing is dying 100 times and picking up Steven (and the Scissors, I guess).
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Dec 2, 2014 14:44
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Contract from above on the first floor, red candle from shop, still couldn't loving beat the family man challenge gently caress it forever
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Dec 2, 2014 14:51
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Michaellaneous posted:Honestly my best runs were made with Lazarus. He has enough punching power to get easily all the way to mom, and you really need to focus on getting items that works well, and especially Dark Bum. Yeah, I've tried to be on the lookout for deals but I never seem to get any on him. And when I do it's krampus or triple chests. I haven't played him as much as the other dudes though because he just immediately soured on me, so it's probably just a really bad streak of lovely luck. e: yeah this was azazel aparrently but the part about deals still counts  I guess ideally you'd want to get a good first room damage up or a decent follower or spawn ability, maybe even a labyrinth for the extra treasures, try to get a devil room on the first floor and save all health upgrades for the very last, in case you get the chance to trade away two or more health, so you can beef it up again before you move on. I also tend to eat the pill right at the start and reroll if it's not a stat up, balls or see forever. Nastyman fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 14:54
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ErIog posted:I don't understand how this is possible. My best runs(excepting Azazel, lol) are with Judas and Cain. Laz just starts with so little damage, and I pretty much have learned to suicide myself whenever the first health upgrade appears so I can make him survivable later. He's second only to Eve for me in terms of how hard you have to work to get him to a usable state. Now that I've beat boss rush with him it's not so bad because I can take my time, but drat it sucked when I was trying to both balance time spent and opportunities for not completely sucking poo poo at everything. I've always found Eve quite strong, simply because you just ruthlessly devil deal her down to 1 or zero hearts to keep yourself in whore mode the whole time.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:19
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SurrealityCheck posted:I've always found Eve quite strong, simply because you just ruthlessly devil deal her down to 1 or zero hearts to keep yourself in whore mode the whole time. That's how I play with all characters 90% of the time.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:45
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Lazarus is just Issac without the D6. So in other words, the Issac you've been playing for quite some time. All the same stuff you learned as him still applies so I don't really see what would make him hard. My problem with him is that he's just boring. His gimmick of having more than one life isn't really something you can take advantage of in most runs. When you die you come back with a single red heart and a crappy item that only works if you get hit, which is dumb.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:49
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omeg posted:That's how I play with all characters 90% of the time. Right, but she benefits extra because of whore mode! Is grooverinos.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:53
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Internet Kraken posted:Lazarus is just Issac without the D6. So in other words, the Issac you've been playing for quite some time. All the same stuff you learned as him still applies so I don't really see what would make him hard. My problem with him is that he's just boring. His gimmick of having more than one life isn't really something you can take advantage of in most runs. When you die you come back with a single red heart and a crappy item that only works if you get hit, which is dumb. Lazarus is a worse Isaac without the D6. He starts with -1 luck and 17.75 range instead of 23.75. Killing him off puts him back to zero luck, 28.75 range, 1.25 move speed, and 4.2 damage from 3.5. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 16:55
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Key Beggars were discussed recently in this thread, and I just got the chance to actually gamble on one in a recent run (Skeleton Key). Going down to 50 keys (in other words, including any I got from chests), I ended up with like 2 red chests, 2 golden chests and 3 grey chests. Did I have the worst luck ever or are they completely useless?  I can't image a situation where it's worth it to spend 10+ keys to get a handful of cents and a bomb or two. e: dis astranagant posted:Lazarus is a worse Isaac without the D6. He starts with -1 luck and 17.75 range instead of 23.75. I'm assuming people have datamined this, is there a good resources for all these numbers? Both Platinum God and the gamepedia wiki seem to have a mixture of actual numbers and pure guessing.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:58
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He occasionally gives out items. I've had anti-grav tears from him before. Also he tends to throw out the lockpick trinket a lot, which is really useless because if you have enough keys to go throwing them away willy-nilly you probably don't need the lockpick.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:01
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What's the range on the luck stat? When I view the stats, all characters only ever seem to have one 'bar' of luck, even after picking up multiple luck upgrades. The only time I've ever seen it on anything over than 1 was after picking up the item that shuffles your stats.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:01
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Your Computer posted:Key Beggars were discussed recently in this thread, and I just got the chance to actually gamble on one in a recent run (Skeleton Key). I'm looking at the values in cheat engine. I'm assuming that the damage bonus is a multiplier since it's a rather unusual number otherwise.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:01
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Your Computer posted:Key Beggars were discussed recently in this thread, and I just got the chance to actually gamble on one in a recent run (Skeleton Key). It might be based partially on luck. There have been times where I've dropped 10 keys on a beggar and gotten 3 red chests, two of which contain devil items. They're definitely the most hit-or-miss beggars, since you need to have excess keys and get kinda lucky with both chest drops and him not dropping extra locked chests. When they pay off, though... 
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Dec 2, 2014 17:02
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chippy posted:What's the range on the luck stat? When I view the stats, all characters only ever seem to have one 'bar' of luck, even after picking up multiple luck upgrades. The only time I've ever seen it on anything over than 1 was after picking up the item that shuffles your stats. It only goes up with pills and not very many regular items. It starts at zero for most and doesn't seem to have a cap. Pills raise it by 1, I think some of the collectibles have fractional boosts since it's stored as a float. Each bar past the first on the pause screen is 1 luck, the first bar is anything less than 2. By 10 luck you'll get fountains of loot out of most chests and will proc mom's eye/loki's horns every time.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:05
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It also impacts success at the gambling machines; I think being cain will make the three skull monty guy go from a 33% win rate to like a 50% win rate.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:06
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dis astranagant posted:It only goes up with pills and not very many regular items. It starts at zero for most and doesn't seem to have a cap. Pills raise it by 1, I think some of the collectibles have fractional boosts since it's stored as a float. Each bar past the first on the pause screen is 1 luck, the first bar is anything less than 2. By 10 luck you'll get fountains of loot out of most chests and will proc mom's eye/loki's horns every time. I'm sure that even if I start with Cain and pick up a couple of 'luck up' pills, it's still on 1 bar. Maybe I'm just losing track of how much I've actually picked up.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:09
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dis astranagant posted:I'm looking at the values in cheat engine. I'm assuming that the damage bonus is a multiplier since it's a rather unusual number otherwise.  I hadn't even thought about CE. Time to go diggin'.President Ark posted:When they pay off, though... , why haven't I seen more people praise Mom's Key? That thing is so broken. I've gotten like 30c, five bombs and a handful of keys from a single chest with that item. It's so wonderful.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:09
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President Ark posted:It also impacts success at the gambling machines; I think being cain will make the three skull monty guy go from a 33% win rate to like a 50% win rate. I think that's just the foot's effect. Luck proper definitely affects slot machines and blood donations, though. Lazarus will hardly ever get more than 1 cent out of blood donations til you kill him off.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:10
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It just occurred to me that if The Lost got a Holy Mantle/Cursed Skull combo he'd pretty much have a free victory. Unless a Holy Mantle depletion doesn't count as a hit for the purposes of Cursed Skull.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:14
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chippy posted:I'm sure that even if I start with Cain and pick up a couple of 'luck up' pills, it's still on 1 bar. Maybe I'm just losing track of how much I've actually picked up. Cain starts with the 1 luck given by the foot and I just gave him a luck up pill and the display shows 2 bars. The next 5 pills each added a bar. You probably lost some luck somewhere. Pills are implemented in kind of a silly way. Stat downs, amnesia and bad trip have a luck roll (that automatically succeeds if you have PhD) to reverse the effect. All others are standalone and can't be changed in any way. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 17:17
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dis astranagant posted:Cain starts with the 1 luck given by the foot and I just gave him a luck up pill and the display shows 2 bars. The next 5 pills each added a bar. You probably lost some luck somewhere. Speaking of losing, without bothering to check myself; do enemy HP scale with the floor they're on? I can't imagine I've gotten consistent dmg downs, yet enemies take more shots to kill further down than they did earlier. An example off the top of my head are the "pooplings" taking 1 hit to kill in the basement, then two hits to kill from caves onward. Or are they just a different entity, sort of like how the Fatties shoot tears after a certain floor?
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Dec 2, 2014 17:20
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dis astranagant posted:Cain starts with the 1 luck given by the foot and I just gave him a luck up pill and the display shows 2 bars. The next 5 pills each added a bar. You probably lost some luck somewhere. Oh, so, although Cain can get bad pills now (as opposed to the first game where all pills he picked up were good), they don't affect him? Well those three, anyway. That's good to know.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:34
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chippy posted:Oh, so, although Cain can get bad pills now (as opposed to the first game where all pills he picked up were good), they don't affect him? Well those three, anyway. That's good to know. Nah, these were all luck up pills that I forced in. Luck decreases the chance of stat downs, amnesia and bad trip happening but he can still get hit by them unless you get very high luck.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:36
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dis astranagant posted:Lazarus is a worse Isaac without the D6. He starts with -1 luck and 17.75 range instead of 23.75. He also doesn't start with a bomb, which can easily ruin your chances of having a key for the basement/cellar 2 item room when you're playing on Hard. D6 or no, Isaac is just hands down better than Lazarus. Nastyman fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 18:22
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I've started abusing the "exit the game" thing to keep runs from dying with The Lost and I hate what I've become. It's not fun dying 400 times but it's also not much fun gaming the system and dying dozens of times and restarting the game dozens of times.
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Dec 2, 2014 18:27
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:I've started abusing the "exit the game" thing to keep runs from dying with The Lost and I hate what I've become. It's not fun dying 400 times but it's also not much fun gaming the system and dying dozens of times and restarting the game dozens of times. The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth - I hate what I've become
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Dec 2, 2014 18:29
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:I've started abusing the "exit the game" thing to keep runs from dying with The Lost and I hate what I've become. It's not fun dying 400 times but it's also not much fun gaming the system and dying dozens of times and restarting the game dozens of times. Neither are fun but at least one way gets results. eventually
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Dec 2, 2014 18:29
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Nastyman posted:He also doesn't start with a bomb, which can easily ruin your chances of having a key for the basement/cellar 2 item room when you're playing on Hard. D6 or no, Isaac is just hands down better than Lazarus. Dead Lazarus is pretty much a worse version of Cain, so I guess you might get some use out of him if you get good devil deals on basement 2.
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Dec 2, 2014 18:37
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:I've started abusing the "exit the game" thing to keep runs from dying with The Lost and I hate what I've become. It's not fun dying 400 times but it's also not much fun gaming the system and dying dozens of times and restarting the game dozens of times. I'm pretty sure you just hate The Lost. Which you should. Because he's literally bullshit. I really wonder if they'll ever patch the game (at all, or) to the point where you don't just randomly take damage (enemies teleporting into you, explosive enemies spawning next to the entrance, room-filling RNG moving enemies, and the list goes on). I lost a perfectly beautiful The Lost boss-rush to Loki teleporting right inside of me, and countless more to other stuff that's out my control. It's a loving awesome idea, but just completely poor game design (given that the game isn't fair. At all).
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Dec 2, 2014 18:43
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I just unlocked the D6 and using it for the first time I'm having a pretty okay run! Off the top of my head, Cricket's Body (tears split into 4 on impact), Death's Scythe (a scythe), 20-20 (Doubleshot), Ipecac (exploding poison tears), Spoon Bender (homing tears, doesn't seem to work too well) and Fire Mind (exploding tears, also a chance to leave a fire behind that hurts enemies but not you). It's super drat dangerous. Wait, also I have that good homing fly and the one that makes you invicible if you stand still. Just easily beat the Boss Rush, but only ended up surviving since they dropped so many sin hearts. Not looking forward to the tougher bosses.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:07
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dis astranagant posted:Nah, these were all luck up pills that I forced in. Luck decreases the chance of stat downs, amnesia and bad trip happening but he can still get hit by them unless you get very high luck. Oh, duh. I was totally spaced then and thinking that Cain started with PhD, not Luck Foot.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:10
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