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Jared592 posted:drat, $99 seems like a crazy deal. It's nearly $200 now. Yea but fluxcore sucks unless youre repairing a tractor in a field. MIG/TIG all the way.
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Nov 30, 2014 07:35
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CarForumPoster posted:Yea but fluxcore sucks unless youre repairing a tractor in a field. MIG/TIG all the way. Stick all the way for fieldwork.
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Nov 30, 2014 22:53
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120v fluxcore has limited usefulness, but it'll do general fabrication with > 3/16" steel without a problem on non-critical stuff. 1/8" if you want to push it a little and technique is very good. 220v fluxcore and dual shield can sure as poo poo kick rear end for fabrication, but that's a completely different story. And yeah, nobody fluxcores tractors in a field. Those get stuck badly together with 6013 on AC usually.
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Nov 30, 2014 22:56
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Hypnolobster posted:120v fluxcore has limited usefulness, but it'll do general fabrication with > 3/16" steel without a problem on non-critical stuff. 1/8" if you want to push it a little and technique is very good. 220v fluxcore and dual shield can sure as poo poo kick rear end for fabrication, but that's a completely different story. What I am getting at is, its a monkey wrench to a ratcheting box end wrench set. Or sometimes even vice grips to a good set of wrenches.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:23
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Hypnolobster posted:And yeah, nobody fluxcores tractors in a field. Those get stuck badly together with 6013 on AC usually. Look at this fancy pants who doesn't use 24v and barbed wire for his tractor.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:47
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CarForumPoster posted:What I am getting at is, its a monkey wrench to a ratcheting box end wrench set. Or sometimes even vice grips to a good set of wrenches. And without need of a gas cylinder and being able to run on 120v it's super handy. I've done everything from fixing tractors outside to patching rusty frames, exhaust and sheet metal work with mine. They are fantastic and inexpensive utility welders that don't take all that much time to get adequate with. Just bring your flap disk and/or wire brush because they are dirty as hell and throw spatter everywhere.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:48
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SouthsideSaint posted:where does one aquire one of those bitchin vitners rulers? Also is that an old Lincoln tech toolbox? Sure looks like the one under my toolbox. I believe it was once a handout at a trade display of some kind, I found both of them in an old toolbox my dad bought at an estate sale many years ago:  Wait, what year is it again?  The toolbox is just a simple steel "Waterloo" that I've had since sometime in the late 1980's, and I'd imagine it was bought at an Ace Hardware or something similar. The plastic inner tray is long gone but it's still a drat sturdy box that's sure to outlast the larger HF box it's sitting on top of. I have a set assortment of wrenches, ratchets, sockets, and so on split between them. The smaller plastic HF box houses my Dremel tool and its various accessories: 
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Nov 30, 2014 23:48
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A few weeks ago I went to my parents' house, where my lil' brother (7 years my junior, so 25, and the reddest of necks) and one of his buddies were working on replacing the power-steering box on my brother's F250. I stood and chatted with them for awhile while they tried to get the lever arm off the dead one with a cheap gear puller that kept spreading out and slipping off and a little (probably 12-oz) ball-peen, on the second day of the project. Eventually I got bored watching this comedy of errors and said "you know I have a 3-pound hammer in my work toolbox in the trunk of Mom's car, right?" Judging from the kid-on-Christmas-morn look in his eyes, he didn't, and hadn't thought to ask our parents if they had a proper hammer (Dad has one in his toolbox as well, which is what inspired me to get one). A tap on either side with the drilling hammer, and the stubborn parts were separated. The best part, though, is that the next week Mom told me of my 5-year-old nephew's reaction to hearing of the solution (my brother keeps him on weekends; he'd been present for the first day of working on it, but had gone back to his mom before I got there that Sunday afternoon): "I told Daddy he needed a bigger hammer!"  On FCAW: It's hot glue for metal. It ain't pretty, but it's cheap and works well enough for hobby purposes. If you're a farmer doing field repairs you use stick, if you're serious about welding you use MIG, but FCAW is fun to Edit: on the F250: not a brotruck. The day after he bought it, the transmission exploded. "But the trailer was only 12,000 pounds!" was his argument to get the seller to pay half of the cost to replace it. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 00:46
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Root Bear posted:I believe it was once a handout at a trade display of some kind, I found both of them in an old toolbox my dad bought at an estate sale many years ago: yeah in the different angle of the tool box I can tell its way different. Those rulers are the tits though. Everytime I find something even close to that its way over priced for what it is.
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Dec 1, 2014 01:48
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sharkytm posted:Stainless is softer than steel, so no. If corrosion was an issue, I'd suggest any number of anti-seize/anti-gall lubricants, but that's not the case. Is this a subwoofer, by any chance? If so, then a neoprene gasket and spring or wave lock washers would probably help. Cakefool posted:Repeat with grade 8 capheads and spring washers, report back.
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Dec 1, 2014 03:25
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A574 is harder and has a higher tensile strength, but the hardness makes them more brittle. Over torquing or excessive vibration will snap them where even a grade 2 fastener would stretch and hold. Unless you've got a specific reason, stick with grade 8.
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Dec 1, 2014 07:37
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oxbrain posted:A574 is harder and has a higher tensile strength, but the hardness makes them more brittle. Over torquing or excessive vibration will snap them where even a grade 2 fastener would stretch and hold. I don't think this part is good advice. The fatigue life of a higher tensile strength bolt should be higher. [Source:http://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/1849892/06181G_Sample.pdf/d408b01c-8497-46a3-9845-3af305feba89] Yes the strain before fracture is less but by that logic plastic would make a better bolt, or aluminum. If you're at the stress limit when torquing you're over torquing...don't do that. If youre snapping bolts under heavy vibration, you didn't put enough bolts and no a lower strength bolt wouldn't last longer. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 08:45
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Lowclock posted:Yes. A very large subwoofer. It is sitting horizontal with the cone pointing up so at least the weight of it isn't really adding to it. By a gasket do you mean like around the rim of the basket? It already has a quite thick rubber (or maybe vinyl? I don't know) gasket there. I'll look into the washers, but I'm not sure I'll actually have room for them. I was already pretty much limited to the socket-headed bolts because of the mounting holes proximity to both the edge of the basket and the cone's surround. The screws that were in there previously - did you procure them yourself, and are confident that they were actually quality items? As has been pointed out, a quality cap screw is pretty amazingly strong; so much so that I'd expect whatever insert they are screwed into in that application to fail first - if you haven't tried just buying known-good replacements first, I'd start there.
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Dec 1, 2014 13:12
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I had seen some one post some screw drivers in here before that had a steel core so that you could hammer the hell out of them. Does any one have a link to them?
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Dec 1, 2014 15:47
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Sadi posted:I had seen some one post some screw drivers in here before that had a steel core so that you could hammer the hell out of them. Does any one have a link to them? Demo drivers. Klein, Milwaukee, Stanley, and Dewalt all make them. Take your pick.
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Dec 1, 2014 16:15
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I would use grade 8 and Loctite myself. I'm guessing either the previous bolts were only shaped like ASTM A574 Socket Head Cap Screws but were actually made of cheaper metal or someone severely overtightened them to keep them from rattling loose from vibration. I remember some video from years ago demonstrating that lock-washers and nylon-insert stop nuts fail before threadlocker. Pictures of the subwoofer and/or the failed bolts would probably help this conversation. CarForumPoster posted:I don't think this part is good advice. The fatigue life of a higher tensile strength bolt should be higher. [Source:http://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/1849892/06181G_Sample.pdf/d408b01c-8497-46a3-9845-3af305feba89] Yes the strain before fracture is less but by that logic plastic would make a better bolt, or aluminum. If you're at the stress limit when torquing you're over torquing...don't do that. If youre snapping bolts under heavy vibration, you didn't put enough bolts and no a lower strength bolt wouldn't last longer. When providing a citation, could you specify which part of the 16 page technical document you're referring to? I didn't see the part that indicates that different alloys behave the same with regards to fatigue vs tensile strength but I was skimming pretty heavily.
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Dec 1, 2014 19:58
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This welder decent? http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/mig-flux-welders/170-amp-dc-240-volt-migflux-cored-welder-68885.html My budget is around 200 bucks
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Dec 1, 2014 20:01
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Cat Hatter posted:I would use grade 8 and Loctite myself. I'm guessing either the previous bolts were only shaped like ASTM A574 Socket Head Cap Screws but were actually made of cheaper metal or someone severely overtightened them to keep them from rattling loose from vibration. I remember some video from years ago demonstrating that lock-washers and nylon-insert stop nuts fail before threadlocker. Not that they behave similarly but rather that ~in general~ an increase in hardness (increase in carbon, primarily) correlates to an increase in fatigue life. Just as a point of clarification, if that sub was mounted with hardware store screws they are poo poo and yea Grade 8 is a very strong bolt. I am a fan of both Loctite and Nylon inserts. Page 9 posted:Composition. An increase in carbon content Related figure for Moly containing steel alloys: 
CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 20:08
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revmoo posted:This welder decent? Not really. And you're still a couple hundred away from welding MIG with that considering you need a bottle and regulator that it doesn't come with. I'd look locally for something used. Do you need MIG, or are you just looking for flux core? You should be able to pick up on old Lincoln WeldPak FCAW for $100. Maybe something for mig with a bottle and regulator for $200-300. Something actually good, that has more than 4 amperage settings and a duty cycle above 5%.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:10
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Lowclock posted:Yes. A very large subwoofer. It is sitting horizontal with the cone pointing up so at least the weight of it isn't really adding to it. By a gasket do you mean like around the rim of the basket? It already has a quite thick rubber (or maybe vinyl? I don't know) gasket there. I'll look into the washers, but I'm not sure I'll actually have room for them. I was already pretty much limited to the socket-headed bolts because of the mounting holes proximity to both the edge of the basket and the cone's surround. What will these screws thread into? If grade 8 bolts/screws with some ny-lock nuts can't hold that speaker, you'll need to reduce some of the Plutonium contained in the speaker.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:11
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Motronic posted:Not really. And you're still a couple hundred away from welding MIG with that considering you need a bottle and regulator that it doesn't come with. It's going on my xmas list so it needs to be new. I liked the fact that it does both FCAW and MIG because I can start using it right away for cheap and then upgrade to gas as needed. Duty cycle is 20% btw. If there's another _new_ welder that would be better though, I'm interested to hear it. If this thing is just total poo poo and I should just get something else and pay cash for a used welder then I guess I could do that.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:15
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Home depot sells Lincolns. Just ask for gift cards to there.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:24
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I'll probably catch poo poo for this, but I run a Real Gear welder. Nothing but the finest chinesium. It works well for body work and some light duty structural stuff but I wouldn't build a tube buggy with it or anything. Cheap as dirt. I weld nuts onto stuck bolts and impact them off, etc http://www.praxairdirect.com/Product1_10152_10051_65670_-1 Has actual knobs for voltage and speed not 4 position clickers.
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Dec 1, 2014 20:52
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I'm torn between getting the HF unit and just buying a used machine off Craigslist. The sticker is that I'll probably only use it for 2-10 minutes a month at most.
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Dec 1, 2014 21:05
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Sadi posted:I had seen some one post some screw drivers in here before that had a steel core so that you could hammer the hell out of them. Does any one have a link to them? I got some made by Wera that I really like. They handle grips are pretty different from normal screwdrivers, in a good way.
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Dec 1, 2014 21:41
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Thanks for all the input guys. Tamir Lenk posted:What will these screws thread into? If grade 8 bolts/screws with some ny-lock nuts can't hold that speaker, you'll need to reduce some of the Plutonium contained in the speaker. Cat Hatter posted:I would use grade 8 and Loctite myself. I'm guessing either the previous bolts were only shaped like ASTM A574 Socket Head Cap Screws but were actually made of cheaper metal or someone severely overtightened them to keep them from rattling loose from vibration. I remember some video from years ago demonstrating that lock-washers and nylon-insert stop nuts fail before threadlocker.
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Dec 1, 2014 21:54
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Maybe posting a picture of this setup will help because this doesn't seem right and threadlocker won't prevent screws from breaking
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Dec 2, 2014 04:44
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kmcormick9 posted:Maybe posting a picture of this setup will help because this doesn't seem right and threadlocker won't prevent screws from breaking A properly designed joint actually transfers a large amount of the load from the fastener to the clamped materials, as long as it maintains a certain clamp load. If it gets loose, all of a sudden all of the force is carried by the fastener instead of the joint, making it more likely to break. Or so I understand it.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:57
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revmoo posted:I'm torn between getting the HF unit and just buying a used machine off Craigslist. The sticker is that I'll probably only use it for 2-10 minutes a month at most. Gosh darn it. I missed this- by Zoro Tools had 30% off and free shipping yesterday. A Hobart 110 was $350~ and a 140 was $400. They also had Millermatic 140/211 were $600/880 with an additional $100 rebate from Miller. I wish I had bought one for body work. Oh well.
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Dec 2, 2014 20:08
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the spyder posted:Gosh darn it. I missed this- by Zoro Tools had 30% off and free shipping yesterday. A Hobart 110 was $350~ and a 140 was $400. They also had Millermatic 140/211 were $600/880 with an additional $100 rebate from Miller. I wish I had bought one for body work. Oh well. I actually bought a 140 on that same deal a couple of months ago. They run that special every couple of months, as long as you don't mind getting a ton of spam you can sign up for emails. It's a funny special to me, like 30% off over $300 - of course I'm going to maximize that one, $30 off of $100 is fine but 30% off of $625 is incredible. drat I missed that it was free shipping too - you really did miss out. I had to pay for shipping and it was still the cheapest way to get the welder by about $90. StormDrain fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 21:44
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Anyone who wants to know about fasteners, I strongly recommend Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook.
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Dec 2, 2014 23:04
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InitialDave posted:Anyone who wants to know about fasteners, I strongly recommend Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook. Also, everything else he's written is great reading for various aspects of racecar design and construction. Required reading for a lot of FSAE teams, and the man himself was an FSAE judge for many years.
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Dec 3, 2014 00:03
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Hypnolobster posted:120v fluxcore has limited usefulness, but it'll do general fabrication with > 3/16" steel without a problem on non-critical stuff. 1/8" if you want to push it a little and technique is very good. 220v fluxcore and dual shield can sure as poo poo kick rear end for fabrication, but that's a completely different story. I've welded 1/4 to 1/4 and even 1/4 to 1 inch steel plate with my lincoln procore 100, so, well, yeah. Would it pass xray? Probably not. And I had to bevel the poo poo out of it. However, it passed the "slam the newly fabricated bumper into rock ledges repeatedly" test as well as the "get flustered while rock crawling and clutch dump backward in low range into an 18 inch oak from 3 feet away instead of clutch dumping forward over a boulder" test. Welds were fine, but I bent a 2x6 1/4-wall box tube bumper right in the middle and had whiplash for 3 days. Whatever you do, do not buy HF welding wire, it blows chunks. Get the lincoln poo poo (home depot keeps it on the shelf, as well as TSC) and be happy. oxbrain posted:A574 is harder and has a higher tensile strength, but the hardness makes them more brittle. Over torquing or excessive vibration will snap them where even a grade 2 fastener would stretch and hold. I don't know if this is true of A574 but this comparison is invalid for grade 5 vs 8 and also ISO PC 8.8 vs 10.9. Higher grade fasteners don't even start yielding until well past the level at which a lower grade fastener would have stretched and then broken. This is a very common misconception that I see a LOT on various forums. Example: ISO PC 8.8 vs 10.9 8.8: breaks at 800MPa, stretches at 800MPa*80% = 640MPa 10.9: breaks at 1GPa, stretches at 1GPa*90% = 900MPa As you can see, the 8.8 fastener that many people will say will stretch but hold... will have already broken by 800MPa, while the 10.9 fastener won't have even started stretching until 900MPa. Of course, this doesn't take into account the fact that stretching the 8.8 fastener will result in it being loose and reducing the clamping load, but at that point it has become a shear pin, not a fastener, and bolts make really lovely shear pins since they essentially have one long stress riser wrapped around them repeatedly from end to end.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:57
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kastein posted:
Completely agree, you can make it sort of work if you ditch their wire. I have their old 90amp flux POS that I abuse horribly and it just keeps chugging along over the last 4 years I've had it. If you are not afraid to keep the heat on the part, treat the overheating light as a suggestion and use some real wire it can make some utilitarian welds. I will however be save for a nice lincoln down the road for when I enter the realm of "not being dirt poor anymore".
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Dec 3, 2014 05:28
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kastein posted:
My QA guy at work says the Hobart stuff isn't bad either.
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Dec 3, 2014 06:05
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kastein posted:I don't know if this is true of A574 but this comparison is invalid for grade 5 vs 8 and also ISO PC 8.8 vs 10.9. Higher grade fasteners don't even start yielding until well past the level at which a lower grade fastener would have stretched and then broken. This is a very common misconception that I see a LOT on various forums. It isn't true for A574. Grade 8 and ISO10.9 both have a max hardness of hrc39 because over that hydrogen embrittlement becomes a big issue. A574 maxes out at hrc45. As you exceed correct torque on a softer bolt it will stretch, but still hold some weight. If you exceed the torque spec on a cap screw it will fail. The torque is way higher, but the tolerance is tiny.
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Dec 3, 2014 06:28
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Commodore_64 posted:A properly designed joint actually transfers a large amount of the load from the fastener to the clamped materials, as long as it maintains a certain clamp load. If it gets loose, all of a sudden all of the force is carried by the fastener instead of the joint, making it more likely to break. Or so I understand it. This doesn't appear properly designed. How is a subwoofer repeatedly breaking high grade fasteners? Is it mounted to a stressed part of the uni body or something? That's why we need pictures because I don't think the problem is with the fasteners and I don't know why nobody has said that yet.
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Dec 3, 2014 13:45
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Timmy Cruise posted:My QA guy at work says the Hobart stuff isn't bad either. Yeah, basically I'd trust Hobart/Miller/Lincoln/ESAB/whoever is a reputable welder maker to sell quality wire. HF? Hahahah, get hosed, I'm not using your poo poo tier welding wire HF. I've always steered well clear of it, had friends who used it and said it was great... then they bought one roll of good quality wire and realized what they were missing out on. oxbrain posted:It isn't true for A574. Grade 8 and ISO10.9 both have a max hardness of hrc39 because over that hydrogen embrittlement becomes a big issue. A574 maxes out at hrc45. As you exceed correct torque on a softer bolt it will stretch, but still hold some weight. If you exceed the torque spec on a cap screw it will fail. The torque is way higher, but the tolerance is tiny. Ahh, that explains it. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when using those bolts.
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Dec 3, 2014 15:47
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kmcormick9 posted:This doesn't appear properly designed. How is a subwoofer repeatedly breaking high grade fasteners? Is it mounted to a stressed part of the uni body or something? That's why we need pictures because I don't think the problem is with the fasteners and I don't know why nobody has said that yet. The sub has broken some fasteners, no confirmation yet they were good.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:25
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Welp, getting the 170 amp MIG. Can't wait. I'll make sure to get good wire before firing it up the first time.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:27
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