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Mokotow posted:Come to think of it, it's surprising it took that long for PKW to collapse, since it's a purely administrative institution that is run by a board of retired high court judges. Being a judge, even a high court one, doesn't mean you're a good administrator. The board is needed for checking voting legality and giving its seal of approval, but probably shouldn't manage things like IT systems. Most of the board members are in their seventies and probbably never worked with computers during their careers, and here they are, responsible for introducing a vote calculation and management system for a 40 million country. A project like that would challenge and keep a huge IT company busy for years. I completely agree. Its really outside their professional competence and should be handled by an independent contractor conforming to a set of regulations put forth by the PKW and then checked by another independent contractor or by some sort of technical adviser to the PKW. I'm absolutely fine with them resigning as a result of the shambolic elections but I hope that whoever is called up into the new Commission is given more time to implement an automated system than until the next elections which are already in May of next year. Until the new system has been thoroughly vetted and tested we can continue to hand count votes like we have since the fall of communism.
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Dec 2, 2014 11:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJdQYGe0sA Where have I seen this? Oh yeah... * Hezbollah * Hamas * Russian terrorists Firing from behind buildings with people in them. Edit: on 16th second one can hear a child's voice saying "Pretty".
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Dec 2, 2014 12:31
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Karmalis posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJdQYGe0sA Just a "Plamenniy privet" for this http://youtu.be/De2wpmAuM-4 "I know this is wrong. But I feel good"(c) TeodorMorozov fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 13:18
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To those wondering, 'plamenniy privet' means heartfelt greetings in English.
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Dec 2, 2014 13:25
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TeodorMorozov posted:Just a "Plamenniy privet" for this A dude walking and saying "This is how the Ukrainian army greets us" without any actual proof is a bit silly. In the video he shows bullet marks on buildings and mentions School 112, which I'm presuming is this: http://school112.org.ua/ which is here: http://goo.gl/NL0obT I never knew the Ukrainian army was so deep into Donetsk. Also, he's saying the attack was done at 00:00 and there's no services at all, no smoke, nothing that shows this is a recent happening. I might be wrong on a few cases, I'm no Brown Moses in these matters, but hell Teddy, you're just putting any bullshit you find. Go buy a puppy, it will help you be a better person. And hurry, ruble's going to explode soon.
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Dec 2, 2014 13:42
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A Pale Horse posted:Since this is google translated and some of it is hard to understand maybe I can clarify a little: The entire electoral commission resigned because the vote counting from the first round took much longer than it should have, up to 12 days in some areas because of the catastrophic failure of the vote tallying computer program. Additionally almost 20% of the total votes were invalidated due to errors of voters. The criticism of the electoral commission is twofold: first that they waited way too long before deciding to go to a manual vote count once it was clear the automated system failed. The second criticism is that they in adequately informed voters of the correct voting procedure resulting in such a high number of invalid votes. The electoral commission's defense is that the parliament are the ones who mandated the changes to the electoral system in 2011 that resulted in these problems and are now trying to blame the NEC. I am a bit curious: what was so confusing about the voting procedure? 20% invalid rate is insane.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:01
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OddObserver posted:I am a bit curious: what was so confusing about the voting procedure? 20% invalid rate is insane. This: http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/polish-electorial-calculator/4963
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Dec 2, 2014 14:16
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That's what's wrong with the software, but it sounds like something was confusing about voting procedures? Edit: this does mention something about wrong instructions? A bit unclear as to what it looks like. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 14:33
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OddObserver posted:I am a bit curious: what was so confusing about the voting procedure? 20% invalid rate is insane. Under-funding of the electoral authority, sudden decision in favor of program implementation, and going with Nabimo lowest bid for coding. E: The deal was in before bidding began; Nabimo paid someone well enough to get a contract to gently caress up a national election. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 14:35
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Maybe the "free" market shouldn't be used to hold elections?
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Dec 2, 2014 15:05
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Karmalis posted:I might be wrong on a few cases, I'm no Brown Moses in these matters, but hell Teddy, you're just putting any bullshit you find. This is Anatoliy Sharij's stuff. He is ukrainian journalist, man with the name and reputation. Not an anonymous guy from the tread who speculate on youtube.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:16
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OddObserver posted:I am a bit curious: what was so confusing about the voting procedure? 20% invalid rate is insane. There were 5 voting cards, each for different adminstartion level; I myself invalidaded two of my votes because I didn't give a poo poo about the high-level ones, and only voted on local-level elections. From my perspective, the higher level, voivodship ones, are all divided between the major parties, of whom none represent my views. It's hard to say what exactly the 20% invalid vote rate stands for - is it for all 5 elections combined, or for one particular one?
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Dec 2, 2014 15:19
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TeodorMorozov posted:This is Anatoliy Sharij's stuff. He is ukrainian journalist, man with the name and reputation. Not an anonymous guy from the tread who speculate on youtube. For all it matters, he could be the Pope and I wouldn't care. The video is rubbish, just an accusation showing holes and blast marks with no clarity of the actual time, date and validity of those marks. Prove me wrong and I'll apologize.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:25
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Ruble down to 53.46/dollar. Oil down to 71 bucks a barrel, Brent. How long before things start melting down? Should we look for gold spikes?
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Dec 2, 2014 15:40
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OddObserver posted:I am a bit curious: what was so confusing about the voting procedure? 20% invalid rate is insane. The problem lies partly in the Polish language. A ballot in Polish is called a Karta while a sheet of paper is called a kartka, the instructions on the ballot and in the polling precincts was to mark one vote per Karta but each Karta was made up of multiple pages (kartka), it was essentially a voting booklet with each party on a different page of the ballot. Apparently a lot of people misinterpreted the instructions and marked a vote on each page (kartka) of the ballot (karta) rather than one for the whole booklet. If there are multiple marks on an election ballot by law it is invalid. This was the first time we've used this system rather than a single sheaf of paper with all the candidates from all the parties on it. In addition my countrymen are notorious for not reading instructions so the thinking is that through a combination of carelessness, unclear instructions and the new system a lot of people just hosed up. What's more is that in the 2011 revision to the electoral law which the PKW mentioned in their defense the government suspended the responsibility for electoral precincts to report why ballots were invalidated as they had previously been required to do so we don't know for sure why so many were invalidated and the above is mostly an assumption. I hope that's made things slightly clearer.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:44
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That's pretty hilarious.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:48
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Holy poo poo. This is... incredible. In Estonia we only had problems with database load a few elections back, somebody didn't do their performance tests so the result charts froze right when on air on national television. Guess they've fixed it since then.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:29
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Some words from the Torygraph : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11266746/Capital-controls-feared-as-Russian-rouble-collapses.htmlquote:The rouble's slide has led to fury in the Duma, where populist politician Evgeny Fedorov has called for a criminal investigation of the central bank. Critics say the institution had been taken over by "feminist liberals" and is a tool of the International Monetary Fund. The office of the Russia general prosecutor said on Monday it was opening a probe.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:55
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First they came for our videogames, now they come for our rubles.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:26
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El Scotch posted:Some words from the Torygraph : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11266746/Capital-controls-feared-as-Russian-rouble-collapses.html Seriously what the gently caress? I mean I understand that Russia is a Authoritarian hellhole, but how can you be wanting to try people for doing their loving job? I mean they can understand that the way the economy is doing affects the ruble right? Or do they think they can solve their problems like IVan the Terrible?
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Dec 2, 2014 17:31
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Crowsbeak posted:Seriously what the gently caress? I mean I understand that Russia is a Authoritarian hellhole, but how can you be wanting to try people for doing their loving job? I mean they can understand that the way the economy is doing affects the ruble right? Or do they think they can solve their problems like IVan the Terrible?
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Dec 2, 2014 17:34
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My Imaginary GF posted:Saudis? I could be wrong but I recall reading about an oil pipeline from the Saudis to China via Burma.
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Dec 2, 2014 17:37
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Forgall posted:Tsar Peter III solved the problem of piracy on the Volga river by declaring that there was no more piracy and that anyone who complained about being a victim of such was a liar liable to be beaten and sent to Siberia. Nothing in Russia ever changes. I thought that Catherine the great had him killed though?
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Dec 2, 2014 18:20
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Karmalis posted:For all it matters, he could be the Pope and I wouldn't care. Your opinion is very important for us.  Please stay on call.
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Dec 2, 2014 18:51
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Mokotow posted:Come to think of it, it's surprising it took that long for PKW to collapse, since it's a purely administrative institution that is run by a board of retired high court judges. Being a judge, even a high court one, doesn't mean you're a good administrator. The board is needed for checking voting legality and giving its seal of approval, but probably shouldn't manage things like IT systems. Most of the board members are in their seventies and probbably never worked with computers during their careers, and here they are, responsible for introducing a vote calculation and management system for a 40 million country. A project like that would challenge and keep a huge IT company busy for years.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:04
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I can't help but consider the possibility of them deliberately being given a task they would have no chance of succeeding at, specifically for the purpose of getting rid of them so Poland can move towards being a managed democracy. The simple explanation of dumb politicians is probably a tad more likely though. PKW is not going away, the members resigned but new members are to be appointed by the end of the week by the Constitutional Tribunal (Supreme Constitutional Court) and heads of local high courts. Its a non political organization as the judiciary in Poland is professional, not elected.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:37
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A Pale Horse posted:PKW is not going away, the members resigned but new members are to be appointed by the end of the week by the Constitutional Tribunal (Supreme Constitutional Court) and heads of local high courts. Its a non political organization as the judiciary in Poland is professional, not elected.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:51
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Russia revised its economic forecast down today to show a 0.8% contraction in 2015.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:53
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0.8% contraction? That's worse than I expected. 0% growth is already bad.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:54
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I can't help but consider the possibility of them deliberately being given a task they would have no chance of succeeding at, specifically for the purpose of getting rid of them so Poland can move towards being a managed democracy. The simple explanation of dumb politicians is probably a tad more likely though. You should only go to conspiracy theories once you've ruled out massive gross incompetence and institutional decay, and this is Poland. You should never rule out massive gross incompetence and institutional decay. Also the ruling party, as much as I dislike them, are not even remotely into strongman-style politics.
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Dec 2, 2014 19:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:By possibility, I meant more in the sense that this would be the backstory of some Putin/Orban like ruler of Poland in a lovely spy thriller. I know this is hard to believe but Poland is a stable liberal democracy not much different than western European ones. We are not Bulgaria or Hungary and certainly not Russia where something like that is possible anymore. Kaczynski might like to be Orban but the fucker can't even win an election since 2007 so the threat of those sorts of things is remote at best. Korwin-Mikke might be that sort of threat, but his current polling numbers are around 3-4%
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Dec 2, 2014 20:06
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A Pale Horse posted:I know this is hard to believe but Poland is a stable liberal democracy not much different than western European ones. We are not Bulgaria or Hungary and certainly not Russia where something like that is possible anymore. Kaczynski might like to be Orban but the fucker can't even win an election since 2007 so the threat of those sorts of things is remote at best. Korwin-Mikke might be that sort of threat, but his current polling numbers are around 3-4% You know if you guys want to deal with that Dork Enlightenment motherfucker, you could just pass a law against denying Poland's Tragedy's.(the Holocaust, The Katlyn Forest, Russian Brutality durring the Empire). Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 20:10
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A Pale Horse posted:I know this is hard to believe but Poland is a stable liberal democracy not much different than western European ones. We are not Bulgaria or Hungary and certainly not Russia where something like that is possible anymore. Kaczynski might like to be Orban but the fucker can't even win an election since 2007 so the threat of those sorts of things is remote at best. Korwin-Mikke might be that sort of threat, but his current polling numbers are around 3-4% Guildencrantz posted:You should only go to conspiracy theories once you've ruled out massive gross incompetence and institutional decay, and this is Poland. You should never rule out massive gross incompetence and institutional decay.
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Dec 2, 2014 20:22
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A Pale Horse posted:The problem lies partly in the Polish language. A ballot in Polish is called a Karta while a sheet of paper is called a kartka, the instructions on the ballot and in the polling precincts was to mark one vote per Karta but each Karta was made up of multiple pages (kartka), it was essentially a voting booklet with each party on a different page of the ballot. This does sound confusing: were they grouped by party rather than office, or simply have each candidate like a page or something for a platform? (That sounds really unweirdly). Mokotow posted:There were 5 voting cards, each for different adminstartion level; I myself invalidaded two of my votes because I didn't give a poo poo about the high-level ones, and only voted on local-level elections. From my perspective, the higher level, voivodship ones, are all divided between the major parties, of whom none represent my views. It's hard to say what exactly the 20% invalid vote rate stands for - is it for all 5 elections combined, or for one particular one? Oh, if they count blanks it's not really surprising in an election with multiple positions if a bunch are left blank --- in US voting % is well-known to drop down further in the ballot (though we usually have more than 5 positions to vote on). A quick check for most recent elections here (Cambridge, MA): In US Senate race, 2.8% ballots were left blank. In State Governor race, 1.1% (the race was a lot more competitive). In the various districts of lower chamber of state legislature ("Representative in General Court"), which is 10th item on the ballot it's 9.4%, 18.4%, 16.4%, and 16.5% blank. Of course the first one is the only district that had more than one candidate. You really don't want to know the turnout, too, it's utterly embarrassing.
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Dec 2, 2014 20:54
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:0.8% contraction? That's worse than I expected. 0% growth is already bad.
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Dec 2, 2014 21:11
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As Mokotow said there were separate cards for each administrative level. The election booklets I described were only for the highest voivodeship level (think State elections in the U.S.) and yes each party had a separate page in the booklet with all its candidates listed on that page. Because Poland uses the De Hondt method party list proportional representation system each party puts forth an entire list of candidates rather than a single candidate like in the U.S. and the number of seats won is awarded based on the percentage of the vote the entire party gets with the candidates receiving the most individual votes within an electoral list receiving those awarded seats. The other electoral cards for the powiat, gmina and miejskie (think county, commune and city) levels were (I think) the old kinds of voting cards. The 20% invalidation was only for the Voivodeship level. The overall level of invalidated votes for all levels was about 9% with the most straighforward city president (mayor) elections having less than 2% of votes invalidated.
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Dec 2, 2014 21:14
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Is there any truth to this or does the Washington Times sometimes post total bullshit for the sake of clickbaiting? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/2/us-army-sending-100-tanks-eastern-europe-deter-rus/
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Dec 2, 2014 22:12
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Flavahbeast posted:Is there any truth to this or does the Washington Times sometimes post total bullshit for the sake of clickbaiting? Washington times is a right-wing rag. Meanwhile, in Russia: Things not looking so good for 2015. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/02/russia-recession_n_6255810.html quote:MOSCOW (AP) — The Russian government has acknowledged that the country will fall into recession next year, battered by the combination of Western sanctions and a plunge in the price of its oil exports.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:16
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Washington times is a right-wing rag. Is there any quick way to find oversea corporations in which Russia holds significant stakes? One of the things I've been reading about in subsaharan africa is Russian stakes of businesses being closed out at firesale prices.
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Dec 2, 2014 22:20
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Washington times is a right-wing rag. According to this: http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/russland-rezession-101.html the 0.8% contraction is based on a mean oil price of $80 in 2015. That's pretty optimistic. Edit: Much less pro-Russian comments on tagesschau.de and spiegel.de by the way. Lucy Heartfilia fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 23:20
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