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kirbysuperstar posted:I wouldn't be surprised to see something like Runefencer show up at some point. I'd be all loving over a spellblade class as long as it isn't called a 'Runefencer'
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Dec 3, 2014 01:41
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Captain Oblivious posted:I don't think they're going to rock the paradigm boat, so Blue Mage is right out. Much as I love Blue Mage. I don't think so. While they'll obviously never make something that's identical to blue mages from the rest of the series, they can very easily make a class that fits into the holy trinity with "blue mage flavor". Learning abilities from enemy attacks wouldn't fit, but they could justify it through class quests ("hey adventurer, go to this goblin camp and learn how to punch like they do!").
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Dec 3, 2014 01:47
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The problem with that is it's hard to imagine how they'd make it interesting. Combos would pretty much just be random abilities that don't necessarily fit together I guess.
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Dec 3, 2014 01:52
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I mean technically they already put in about a third the mechanical functionality of Blue Mages. It's called "Cross-class Skills". You have a list of moves from outside your class/job that you can choose from that can wildly effect your viability [At this point most people don't really consider that Swiftcast isn't something all healers have, it's just something that bad healers *don't* have in their minds. Same for Warriors and Provoke.] that you can slot in as needed. It even applies to things like trade skill classes. So in that sense Blue Mages aren't that crazy, we are all Blue Mages in the end. Mission accomplished!
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Dec 3, 2014 01:55
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Captain Oblivious posted:This will literally never happen of course. We might get a DPS Red Mage who is a melee caster buuut that's about it. Yoshi-P actually specifically mentioned blue mage as something he'd like to do in the future but the problem is how to implement it. He guessed they'd probably do something like giving them a lot of spells but only allowing them to bring a subsection of them with them at a time, sort of like cross class skills. Also making a hybrid job is easy, we already have one. If scholars just had a melee skill instead of ruin they'd pretty much already be red mages.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:01
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Boogaleeboo posted:I mean technically they already put in about a third the mechanical functionality of Blue Mages. It's called "Cross-class Skills". You have a list of moves from outside your class/job that you can choose from that can wildly effect your viability [At this point most people don't really consider that Swiftcast isn't something all healers have, it's just something that bad healers *don't* have in their minds. Same for Warriors and Provoke.] that you can slot in as needed. It even applies to things like trade skill classes. So in that sense Blue Mages aren't that crazy, we are all Blue Mages in the end. Mission accomplished! Oh man, blue mage being 100% cross class would be nuts once they put a few more classes in and there's more standard attacks to choose from
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Dec 3, 2014 02:09
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If there's no hunting monsters for abilities outside of canned job quests, what's even the point?
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Dec 3, 2014 02:22
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Potsticker posted:If there's no hunting monsters for abilities outside of canned job quests, what's even the point? Couldn't you just pretend you're being a blue mage by turning your back to a level 5 goblin for 20 minutes before using your goblin punch? Would that make you feel better?
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Dec 3, 2014 02:23
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Belzac posted:Also making a hybrid job is easy, we already have one. If scholars just had a melee skill instead of ruin they'd pretty much already be red mages. This idea for President. Ruin is a cancer.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:24
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Captain Oblivious posted:What about FFV players Only during the 4JF.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:25
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Belzac posted:Couldn't you just pretend you're being a blue mage by turning your back to a level 5 goblin for 20 minutes before using your goblin punch? Would that make you feel better? I'll just go autoattack punch crabs in a river for three days. 
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Dec 3, 2014 02:36
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Fister Roboto posted:("hey adventurer, go to this goblin camp and learn how to punch like they do!") Hey adventurer, go to this goblin camp and let those guys beat the everloving poo poo out of you.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:39
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Blue magic wasn't that bad (compared to some of the other things in ffxi). I think the most ridiculous instance of letting mobs beat up on you would be grinding legendary defender of Ascalon in GW1.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:41
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Algid posted:Blue magic wasn't that bad (compared to some of the other things in ffxi). I think the most ridiculous instance of letting mobs beat up on you would be grinding legendary defender of Ascalon in GW1. Guild Wars is also the game where one of the class combos (something like Warrior/Monk, its been awhile) could basically pull an entire map of enemies then pop a skill that healed the damage they took while reflecting damage, clearing out enemies in glorious fashion and ending up at something like 999999hp because the absorbed HP could go over your max. That probably got patched out quickly but it was fun around launch.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:44
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nuru posted:This idea for President. Ruin is a cancer. I too would be okay with being a Tactician from Fire Emblem.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:44
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Blue Mages were fun in Tactics Advance, but were outclassed like everything else in that game by Moogle Gunners being able to cover the entire map with Ultima. Gun Mages in X-2 seemed kind of lackluster compared to some of the other dress spheres as I recall. Blue Mages absolutely owned in V, though.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:48
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 yes. I dunno why it saved in such low quality, though, any tips on how to fix that?
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Dec 3, 2014 02:50
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Potsticker posted:Blue Mages were fun in Tactics Advance, but were outclassed like everything else in that game by Moogle Gunners being able to cover the entire map with Ultima. Strago was pretty good in VI as well but it's hard to shine when you have to compete with other characters like Edgar, or Relm who was so powerful she could warp the very fabric of reality.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:55
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Potsticker posted:If there's no hunting monsters for abilities outside of canned job quests, what's even the point? They've already talked about wanting to do NPCs you take with you to solo dungeons, but they want to make them part of your GC or something. Here's all you need to do with a 'Blue Mage': You make NPCs like that for the friendly beastmen tribes. Now you have a reason normal people would use those skills and that content, a way for 'Blue Mages' to go about learning them organically through quest form not tied to getting hit by mobs a bunch of times, and everyone gets something. You can flavor them as diplomats, much like Scholars are actually military generals. With that being said it still seems like too much work for not enough payoff, but it's not like a lot of what they are already doing doesn't lead near it as is.
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Dec 3, 2014 02:59
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Evil Fluffy posted:Strago was pretty good in VI as well but it's hard to shine when you have to compete with other characters like Edgar, or Relm who was so powerful she could warp the very fabric of reality. VI was great for all the things to collect. Rages, Dances, Lores-- Tools. The hunting logs are nice in XIV, especially when you get things that only spawn in some tiny part of the map or whatever, but those are way too quick and the world feels so small.
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Dec 3, 2014 03:00
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Belzac posted:Also making a hybrid job is easy, we already have one. If scholars just had a melee skill instead of ruin they'd pretty much already be red mages. There is a difference between a class that can heal and do OKish DPS versus a hybrid proper. When I think Hybrid, I think class that does 2 things at least close to the effectiveness of a pure. Sch is about 30%~ behind something like a Monk or Black Mage in terms of damage and you'd never bring one just to DPS outside of a gimmick of some kind. Really, WHM can push 250 DPS by themselves as well, so does that make them a hybrid? I mean, where do you draw the line? How effective do you have to be before you just say, 'Na, I don't think so'. This whole scenario illustrates an important things: A true hybrid probably cannot exist. If you have the option of taking a guy that can do one thing, versus a guy that can do the same thing + something else, both within say, 5% of the pure's effectiveness, then why take a pure to begin with? Conversely, if the gap is too large (kind of where SCH is right now), why would you take a mediocre DPS to fill a DPS slot when you can take someone that is several dozen percentage points more effective? So he can toss off heals and further cripple the raid DPS? The solution in that scenario is to bring better healers, not a 3rd healer that happens to be able to also kinda DPS. There is a really fine line where actually picking between a hybrid and pure would be a meaningful choice. The best you'll ever see in a structured MMO like this is something like the Bard, where they offer something unique in the form of songs and ultra-mobile DPS at the cost of potential DPS Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 03:01
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Arcanist is a better example of a hybrid. You can do good DPS as SMN and you can do good healing as SCH, and both healers can throw in reasonable DPS on the side during periods of lighter healing (because that's just how healers roll in this game). But you can't do both SMN-level DPS and SCH-level healing at the same time.
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Dec 3, 2014 03:07
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Re: Coincounter: There's technically Void Fire III and Void Thunder III in Haukke normal, but those are also a bad example. Totally agree that there needs to be something to teach you about it. Even just one of those popups ("The kraken cannot bring its arms to bear against you!") would be enough.
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Dec 3, 2014 03:20
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:There is a difference between a class that can heal and do OKish DPS versus a hybrid proper. When I think Hybrid, I think class that does 2 things at least close to the effectiveness of a pure. Sch is about 30%~ behind something like a Monk or Black Mage in terms of damage and you'd never bring one just to DPS outside of a gimmick of some kind. Really, WHM can push 250 DPS by themselves as well, so does that make them a hybrid? The difference between whm and sch dps is that scholar can do that while also healing. Obviously I'm not suggesting RDM be a super god who's good at all things, when that would actually be against the red mage principle. Red Mage is master of none, I'd be happy if he was a healer, who had some spells and melee, or a melee, who had some heals and spells. What makes XIV classes so good is that certain classes have massive downsides that you still take. Brds and Sch at raw damage/healing don't really compete with their roles, but they bring so much in terms of support/damage that not bringing one is kinda dumb. Asymmetric balance is the best.
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Dec 3, 2014 03:22
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pksage posted:Re: Coincounter: There's technically Void Fire III and Void Thunder III in Haukke normal, but those are also a bad example. Totally agree that there needs to be something to teach you about it. Even just one of those popups ("The kraken cannot bring its arms to bear against you!") would be enough. I like some of the more Dark Souls-y fights. The one at the end of SV hard is great too.
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Dec 3, 2014 03:27
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Robo Reagan posted:I like some of the more Dark Souls-y fights. The one at the end of SV hard is great too. That fight is basically the gargoyles from DS1 and I love it. 
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Dec 3, 2014 03:31
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Obscurity posted:I'd be fine with RDM being a melee heal class, though. I'm holding out that RMD will be a magic tank. Your overpower can just be firing a cone of fire in front of you, provoke can be flinging a spell at an enemy, you use magic to buff yourself up to mitigate damage. It'd be neat, and there could be some extra tanks. Game also needs extra healers, BLU can be a gun mage with white wind 
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Dec 3, 2014 03:38
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Belzac posted:The difference between whm and sch dps is that scholar can do that while also healing. Obviously I'm not suggesting RDM be a super god who's good at all things, when that would actually be against the red mage principle. Red Mage is master of none, I'd be happy if he was a healer, who had some spells and melee, or a melee, who had some heals and spells. Measuring HPS as the effectiveness of a healer is a mistake. While Bards do less damage, their utility makes up for it and you can rationalize it that way, but the SCH/WHM relationship is completely different in that they are simply just good at different things.
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Dec 3, 2014 03:45
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pksage posted:Re: Coincounter: There's technically Void Fire III and Void Thunder III in Haukke normal, but those are also a bad example. Totally agree that there needs to be something to teach you about it. Even just one of those popups ("The kraken cannot bring its arms to bear against you!") would be enough. The chimera in cutter's cry does exactly this.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:48
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I feel like each tier of Relic is its own, unique level of hell with its own special kind of miseries. Nexus Farming, for example, introduces you to probably some of the worst loving people on the planet.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:52
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Rei_ posted:I feel like each tier of Relic is its own, unique level of hell with its own special kind of miseries. I had people bitch at me for not tanking Garuda "the right way" and since I had an unweathered Burtgang I, apparently, should have known better. I went with my tried and true method of telling them to eat a dick and if they had any suggestions on how to do it let me know. Someone did and then we cleared without a problem.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:56
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yo if one more loving bard tells me i'm tanking Garuda and/or the adds wrong I'm going to grab that loving bow and break it over their god drat head. What is the right loving way. You take her to the south, and then the the strat seems to be yell at the tank no matter where the adds are until she dies, probably to get away from the nexus farmers for a few, brief, wonderful seconds.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:00
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 I am ready for 2.45
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Dec 3, 2014 05:01
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Captain Oblivious posted:What about FFV players FFV players talking about BLU is silly because no MMO job will be as good and gamebreaking as FFV BLU, and FFV players talking about RDM is silly because !Doublecast was the only good part of RDM. 
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Dec 3, 2014 05:04
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Rei_ posted:yo if one more loving bard tells me i'm tanking Garuda and/or the adds wrong I'm going to grab that loving bow and break it over their god drat head. What is the right loving way. You take her to the south, and then the the strat seems to be yell at the tank no matter where the adds are until she dies, probably to get away from the nexus farmers for a few, brief, wonderful seconds. You take her whereever the gently caress you want (south)
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Dec 3, 2014 05:09
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If its HM just stack all of them in one area that isn't in the tornados and AoE the things down.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:11
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Rei_ posted:yo if one more loving bard tells me i'm tanking Garuda and/or the adds wrong I'm going to grab that loving bow and break it over their god drat head. What is the right loving way. You take her to the south, and then the the strat seems to be yell at the tank no matter where the adds are until she dies, probably to get away from the nexus farmers for a few, brief, wonderful seconds. be a paladin, pop tempered will and hallowed ground, tank garuda to the north
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Dec 3, 2014 05:13
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The bitching about the right way to tank bone dragon in LOTA is still the most hilarious poo poo I've ever read, apparently it was a primal data center thing? The idea that people get so wound up over such an easy instance. It's CT, who the gently caress cares? Tank where ever and enjoy the face roll raid.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:39
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Bone Dragon is purely a MrHappy invention, the dude's an idiot, and put the idea in the entire Primal communities head that Bone Dragon goes north. Luckily if you're a strength specced warrior in str gear you dont have to give a poo poo what rando tanks think.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:46
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Rei_ posted:Bone Dragon is purely a MrHappy invention, the dude's an idiot, and put the idea in the entire Primal communities head that Bone Dragon goes north. Luckily if you're a strength specced warrior in str gear you dont have to give a poo poo what rando tanks think. There's other ways to spec and gear warriors?
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Dec 3, 2014 05:50
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