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There are no "pure stylists" good enough to reach high level MMA, because there isn't a perfect martial art. The early UFCs and the even earlier vale tudo matches demonstrated that most of the martial arts around aren't any good in a fight against a skilled opponent. The top-tier arts were brazilian jiujitsu, judo, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing/muay thai and sambo. Everything else (mostly) disappeared through natural selection. The practitioners of those top-tier arts started cross training in one another's styles to produce what we have today. There is still plenty of variation between styles within MMA, but it's not as obvious to the untrained eye. But even those top tier styles? If you came in being good at one art and having no knowledge of the others (these days) you would get wrecked. A muay thai guy would become worthless the moment he was tackled, a BJJ guy would probably be punched unconscious before he even got within grabbing range. They'd be 30 second fights. Mr. Nice! posted:Closest in modern times I would say is Rousey because of her judo but then she just went and KOed two women at the start of a fight so she doesn't even really count anymore. Her judo is still adapted to work no-gi out of the muay thai clinch, so it's a pretty wild variation from competitive judo.
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Nov 28, 2014 01:21
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 11:11 |
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Roger gracie got to a fairly high level in mma despite seemingly not knowing a single thing about anything but bjj with the gi. He was of course world class in bjj. Duane ludwig hung around for awhile despite being just a pretty good muay thai guy, and had no real ground game and was super chinny. I feel like there are always some fringe ufc level heavyweights who really only know how to wrestle, but now that death gultch is gone it seems like so are they
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Nov 28, 2014 01:27
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Sorry, "super chinny", do you mean he has a glass jaw? I can't keep up with all this slang you young ruffians use 
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Nov 28, 2014 01:33
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Memento posted:Sorry, "super chinny", do you mean he has a glass jaw? I can't keep up with all this slang you young ruffians use yes
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Nov 28, 2014 01:40
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He expended too much energy and got tired
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Memento posted:Sorry, "super chinny", do you mean he has a glass jaw? I can't keep up with all this slang you young ruffians use I meant that yes. But perhaps its a bit of an overstatement. Lidwigs chin was certainly not good, but it seemed worse because he was very hittable amd dove into some big shots on a regular basis
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Nov 28, 2014 01:47
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Smoking Crow posted:I'm sorry if this shows my ignorance, but to me at least, all MMA guys look like they fight with exactly the same style. Am I dumb or are there pure fighters, like ones who just do judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, etc. like in the old days? Lots of the top fighters do come from differing disciplines, but like 2 decades of MMA have kind of distilled what is and isn't effective offense and the championship level fighters do tend to do similar things. What makes MMA cool is how different fighters put together different styles of fighting based on the same general blueprint.
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Nov 28, 2014 02:04
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However some of those weird old moves are coming back. Now that the fundamentals are pretty locked in I think we will start seeing styles that are more diversified as fighters look to surprise or innovate.
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Nov 28, 2014 19:36
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LYOTO MACHIDA   
Tezcatlipoca fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 20:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HddMSKn7s3s
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Dec 3, 2014 00:50
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Did he snap his poo poo up?? Oww
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Dec 3, 2014 03:59
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Why would you go for a leglock on Masakazu loving Imanari, let alone while wearing shoes
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Dec 3, 2014 12:07
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I would be afraid to ever put my foot anywhere near him regardless of my amount of clothing. I couldn't find the video of him destroying some poor fella in the bathhouse. 
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Dec 3, 2014 16:10
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Mr. Nice! posted:I would be afraid to ever put my foot anywhere near him regardless of my amount of clothing. That was a triangle choke, because I know that's my go-to submission when I'm naked.
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Dec 3, 2014 16:16
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If anybody lives near Vegas, the Cliff Keen Invitational, the biggest college wrestling tournament outside of NCAAs in March, is happening there this weekend. There's around 30 teams and half the ranked wrestler in D-1 will be there. FloWrestling will be doing a stream but you have to subscribe.
Thoguh fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 21:27
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:[Rousey's] judo is still adapted to work no-gi out of the muay thai clinch, so it's a pretty wild variation from competitive judo. What she uses most of the time isn't exactly a thai clinch, more of an over-under. Here's a gif of her tossing Miesha Tate, you can see she has Miesha's left arm isolated:  That's pretty much her favorite grip for MMA, and it seems like a fairly straightforward adaptation of judo. Ronda wants to control that arm, which in judo she would accomplish by gripping the sleeve. With no gi to grab she instead links her hands by getting a collar with her left arm and an underhook with her right, and if she links her hands then she almost always hits a huge throw immediately. IIRC in the McMann fight, McMann recognized the threat and stopped Ronda from getting the underhook, but her body was exposed to knee strikes. Another judo oddity in Ronda's game is her preference for the scarf hold on the ground. So I would say Ronda was successful as a judo stylist even before her striking and BJJ caught up but that comes down to (A) she's really amazingly good at judo, one of the very best in the whole world (B) her personal style of judo was unusual and probably a better fit for MMA than the norm (C) she's stronger and more athletic than almost anybody in WMMA (D) her schedule is weak because WMMA was/is new and many fighters aren't that good Absent any of those things she might have had a career that looked more like Hidehiko Yoshida's.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:57
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EvanSchenck posted:Absent any of those things she might have had a career that looked more like Hidehiko Yoshida's. To be fair, Ronda also went directly from Judo to MMA while still in her athletic prime and competing at her best weight, neither of which was remotely true of Yoshida.
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Dec 3, 2014 22:59
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She also isn't wearing a gi.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:14
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Tezcatlipoca posted:She also isn't wearing a gi. Too bad, I would love to see Goldberg and Rogan re-enact this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJaHmG66GVU
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Dec 4, 2014 01:46
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Mr. Pool posted:Did he snap his poo poo up?? Oww Am I so bad at leg locks I can't recognize it was that straight ankle attempt very bad? It looked loose and imprecise, especially not tucking his own feet. Fatherdog I need a ruling. Also I know Imanari is a pro and grappling doesn't need to be nice but that seemed a little ruthless for sparring. Especially when the other guy looked like he wasn't a great leg stacker. Was there context here or is Imanari just a torquino level crazy person.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:22
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Xguard86 posted:Am I so bad at leg locks I can't recognize it was that straight ankle attempt very bad? It looked loose and imprecise, especially not tucking his own feet. Fatherdog I need a ruling. Yes, that ankle lock attempt was total dogshit. He sat straight back on his rear end and wasn't using his thighs or the reap (or a grapevine) to control the leg he was attacking. You want to be on your side or even go over the free leg to belly-down so that they can't peel your reap and stack you. Imanari didn't even bother to peel, he just heel hooked it. Then of course the guy made the heel hook worse by going for a leg knot (that his free leg would have been blocked from locking in anyway) instead of recognizing his bad situation and defending properly. I don't think Imanari injured the guy though, joints crack under strain all the time like knuckles crack, if it was a tendon snapping the dude would have been in a lot more pain. Still, there's a reason heel hooks tend to be catch-and-release in sparring at a lot of places. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 17:36
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Xguard86 posted:Was there context here or is Imanari just a torquino level crazy person. Was that story about him not being allowed in the States due to being too loving crazy for the customs officials true?
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Dec 4, 2014 17:52
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Yes, that ankle lock attempt was total dogshit. He sat straight back on his rear end and wasn't using his thighs or the reap (or a grapevine) to control the leg he was attacking. You want to be on your side or even go over the free leg to belly-down so that they can't peel your reap and stack you. Actually sitting straight back on your rear end is a perfectly legitimate way to leglock (I actually prefer it to rolling on the side in a lot of ways) but he didn't sit straight back on his rear end; he fell straight onto his back which is a terrible idea for nearly any situation. And the fact that as soon as Imanari pushed his foot his knee flared straight out to the side indicates he was applying zero pressure with his legs to have any control, as you said.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:09
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fatherdog posted:Actually sitting straight back on your rear end is a perfectly legitimate way to leglock (I actually prefer it to rolling on the side in a lot of ways) but he didn't sit straight back on his rear end; he fell straight onto his back which is a terrible idea for nearly any situation. And the fact that as soon as Imanari pushed his foot his knee flared straight out to the side indicates he was applying zero pressure with his legs to have any control, as you said. Yeah, should have clarified that if you go down to the mat on a straight ankle lock you want to be on a hip or belly-down rather then on your butt. Working leglocks from a more sitting position is its own thing.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:35
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Tezcatlipoca posted:She also isn't wearing a gi. PRIDE NEVER DIE
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Dec 4, 2014 22:08
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Today's lesson at BJJ was getting a rear clinch -> rear takedown -> modified/full mount -> get twisting arm control -> back take if they go to their knees, armbar if they stay on their back I really like this control and it seemed very intuitive. I'm 90% sure my siblings did some less technical version of twisting arm control on me as a kid so the muscle memory was already there.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPb7BQq2as
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Dec 5, 2014 03:51
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Mr. Pool posted:Today's lesson at BJJ was getting a rear clinch -> rear takedown -> modified/full mount -> get twisting arm control -> back take if they go to their knees, armbar if they stay on their back You can also use that control to set up an arm-triangle. And it's possible to force the back take if that's what you want. I was taught to bring my other hand under for a kimura grip (just with the head inside) for increased control, but it was always pointed out that this was mainly for non-striking situations. With strikes, the one handed variation is more useful. Usually see that called the "gift wrap".
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Dec 5, 2014 16:51
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So I roll today for the first time, really. In previous fundamental classes it'd be drilling, then a little positional sparring at the end, in short bursts. That's been alright but today was a different level. Full hour pretty much of rolling with a mixed group (mostly blues, I think). Loved every minute of it. It was fairly exhausting but I'm in decent shape so I held my own well, even though it was all about gaining experiences. Subs were allowed for the first time... ah it was so good. Pity I can only go to this particularly class once every 4 weeks (work) because it was a different level.
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Dec 5, 2014 18:39
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Sprecherscrow posted:You can also use that control to set up an arm-triangle. And it's possible to force the back take if that's what you want. I was taught to bring my other hand under for a kimura grip (just with the head inside) for increased control, but it was always pointed out that this was mainly for non-striking situations. With strikes, the one handed variation is more useful. Usually see that called the "gift wrap". The cobra clutch? 
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Dec 5, 2014 18:59
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The gift wrap is a really strong control. The Gracie school where I live teaches their guys to just go straight for it as soon as they can, and it seems to help them pass/mount/backtake/arm triangle/armbar very easily. What's the best defense? I usually try to slip my other hand in and lift the elbow over my head to try to pop the arm off, but it still leaves me in a pretty vulnerable position.
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Dec 5, 2014 19:27
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Ikantski posted:The cobra clutch? Nah, Sarge puts his hand up over the shoulder like a half nelson, for the full gift wrap you'd grab your own wrist.
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Dec 5, 2014 20:36
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Ikantski posted:The cobra clutch? dem sequins tho
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Dec 6, 2014 03:23
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Because of a fairly significant health problem with my brain, I'm not going to be able to do Jiu Jitsu until a neurosurgeon tells me it's alright. This means I'm out of Jiu Jitsu until the second week of January if not forever. Luckily, my coach is very supportive of my trying capoeira, which is huge at my gym. Does anyone here have experience with it? I'm curious what peoples experience around here would be.
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Dec 11, 2014 09:21
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Captain Log posted:Because of a fairly significant health problem with my brain, I'm not going to be able to do Jiu Jitsu until a neurosurgeon tells me it's alright. This means I'm out of Jiu Jitsu until the second week of January if not forever. Luckily, my coach is very supportive of my trying capoeira, which is huge at my gym. Does anyone here have experience with it? I'm curious what peoples experience around here would be. My understanding is that everybody fucks everybody.
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Dec 11, 2014 09:32
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Dangersim posted:My understanding is that everybody fucks everybody. It does have a weird brazil cult vibe but if it ultimately leads to happy people dancing around and loving, I'm down. When I was in Germany my friend was way the gently caress into capoeira. It was years ago and they knew me as the MMA guy. Being the guy watching a bunch of Germans do capoeira in the middle of Frankfurt was pretty odd. They kept saying, "come on try it!" And I kept thinking. "Backflipping onto my head in Germany is probably a bad idea.
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Dec 11, 2014 10:46
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Capoeira looks like a lot of fun if nothing else, but I hope you like singing.
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Dec 11, 2014 13:10
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Capoeira looks like a lot of fun if nothing else, but I hope you like singing. God damnit
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Dec 11, 2014 13:42
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I have this documentary about capoeria you should watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFaB9Ess3wU If you need the abbreviated version, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj-VHOp2myk
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Dec 11, 2014 14:12
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capoeria is super cool but yeah you have to do the singing and instruments to do the art, it has super strong cultural roots so they insist you do the full package. I did it for a bit when we had a bjj black belt who was also a capo mestre (whatever the word for teacher is) stay at our school for a time. I wish I had done that instead of TKD back as a kid then maybe I would have rhythm today.
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Dec 11, 2014 17:55
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Does anybody know much about the Gracie Academy/University online testing stuff and/or has anybody rolled with somebody who got their blue belt through the internet and where they were at compared to other people you've rolled with? Seems strange that they're giving out belts to people they've never met or seen roll based on kata type stuff
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Dec 11, 2014 21:00
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Knowing Rorion it doesn't sound strange at all.
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Dec 11, 2014 21:02
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