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Augmented Dickey posted:Is there any explanation for why this case got less attention than Ferguson?
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Dec 3, 2014 23:28
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Augmented Dickey posted:Is there any explanation for why this case got less attention than Ferguson? People were easier to organize in large numbers in Ferguson and the alleged murder was a lot flashier
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Dec 3, 2014 23:28
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Also, Ferguson is a weird place stuck in the recent past with a bunch of heretofore unknown stories (esp. the Henry Davis one) and the lid of the resentment hadn't really come off yet. NY/NYPD is not unweird but it is more of a known entity at this point. Also, leaving aside the quality of the conversation, Michael Brown being a THUG in the store or whatever made it more of a "conversation" with conservatives, which makes for more airtime and pageviews and arguments etc.
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Dec 3, 2014 23:47
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I feel like the Tamir Rice killing is even more stark than either Brown or Garner - the poor kid was only 12 years old, there's a grotesque video of the police performing what looks like a drive-by, the police lied their rear end off about the circumstances of the shooting because they didn't know they were on videotape, and the victim was completely innocent with no criminal record. There's almost no wiggle room for bullshit, and the police have already impeached themselves by being caught lying. Oh yeah, and apparently the pricks didn't even bother attempting to administer first-aid while the 12-year old with a toy gun bled out on the pavement. Of course, I say this having read twitter-racists attempting to defend the cops, simply by repeating the cops' now discredited statements, and vaguely repeating that they "had no choice". :-| Periodiko fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 00:40
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Periodiko posted:I feel like the Tamir Rice killing is even more stark than either Brown or Garner - the poor kid was only 12 years old, there's a grotesque video of the police performing what looks like a drive-by, the police lied their rear end off about the circumstances of the shooting because they didn't know they were on videotape, and the victim was completely innocent with no criminal record. There's almost no wiggle room for bullshit, and the police have already impeached themselves by being caught lying. You forgot the best part. The police officer had gotten fired from a different department for being mentally unfit.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:45
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I try and keep Tamir out of the discussion because despite terrible assholes knee jerk reactions, I'm still holding out hope that this particular event is too much to bear for the fucks who usually carry the real water on these incidents and he gets the book thrown at him.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:50
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I try and keep Tamir out of the discussion because despite terrible assholes knee jerk reactions, I'm still holding out hope that this particular event is too much to bear for the fucks who usually carry the real water on these incidents and he gets the book thrown at him. True they could turn it into a "unions are evil" discussion.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:00
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I really don't hold any hope for a criminal indictment even in this case. The case of the twelve year old is more closely related to that poor guy that was shot in Walmart holding an air rifle. The kid was holding a realistic looking toy gun and the cop is just gonna say he saw a gun and reacted. I can't think of a time when more tragic stupid police related deaths happened in such short order.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:00
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For what it's worth, the civil libertarian wing of mainstream right wing media that I've heard from has rejected the Garner decision as well. I heard interviews with Krauthammer and Judge Napolitano that we're pretty unequivocal that the video showed it to be "at least" manslaughter. The main line of defense you're going to hear from right wing media is that the Brown case and the Garner case are unrelated, even if Garner was unjustly killed. I really doubt they're going to go as far as suggest that the poor dude actually deserved to be killed because he was selling loosies.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:07
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Periodiko posted:I really doubt they're going to go as far as suggest that the poor dude actually deserved to be killed because he was selling loosies. Of course not. They'll say that the incident is regrettable, but that Garner is at fault for resisting arrest.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:11
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Feds are probing Garner's death
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Dec 4, 2014 01:13
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CommieGIR posted:Feds are probing Garner's death Looks like Sen. Gillibrand's efforts to get this just a bit more of a spotlight was successful. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/gillibrand-eric-garner-chokehold-department-of-justice
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Dec 4, 2014 01:17
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Yeah even my local AM "unaffiliated libertarian" is not happy with the Garner decision either. This guy toes the Republican shill line 90% of the time.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:21
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radical meme posted:I really don't hold any hope for a criminal indictment even in this case. The case of the twelve year old is more closely related to that poor guy that was shot in Walmart holding an air rifle. The kid was holding a realistic looking toy gun and the cop is just gonna say he saw a gun and reacted. I can't think of a time when more tragic stupid police related deaths happened in such short order. Wait but isn't Ohio an open-carry state? How the gently caress can you just shoot someone holding a gun and say "oh I just reacted to seeing someone holding something totally legal"? I don't understand how that argument can possibly fly. Am I too optimisitc?
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Dec 4, 2014 01:25
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VitalSigns posted:Wait but isn't Ohio an open-carry state? How the gently caress can you just shoot someone holding a gun and say "oh I just reacted to seeing someone holding something totally legal"? Yes
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Dec 4, 2014 01:27
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Open carry only applies to the right kind of people.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:28
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Former NYPD officer on CNN saying that the "I can't breathe" comments are nonsense because you would need to breathe in order to say that in the first place. Seems like sound logic to me.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:28
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Former NYPD officer on CNN saying that the "I can't breathe" comments are nonsense because you would need to breathe in order to say that in the first place. Seems like sound logic to me. Oh, so the guy didn't die then, okay.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:32
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Former NYPD officer on CNN saying that the "I can't breathe" comments are nonsense because you would need to breathe in order to say that in the first place. Seems like sound logic to me. You can say the words "I can't breathe" using the air that's already in your lungs, while at the same being unable to pull more air into your lungs. (You know, breathe.) Similar situation: you can exhale underwater, but you can't get any new air to replace this lost air. If you have no air coming into your lungs, you suffocate and die. This has been Breathing 101, if you have any questions please ask an expert (which is apparently every person on earth except for a few NYPD officers). fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 01:39
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fade5 posted:To kill this idea/talking point/"defense" from the get-go (and because people sometimes need to have things explained to them on a very simple level): It muddies the waters, and people are going to believe him, that's that.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:42
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fade5 posted:To kill this idea/talking point/"defense" from the get-go (and because people sometimes need to have things explained to them on a very simple level to fully grasp them): It's easy to try at home kids! Try holding your breath and saying anything at all! Be sure to ask your parent's permission and don't do it in front of cops if you're black because they'll think you're selling drugs and shoot you.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:45
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Nonsense posted:It muddies the waters, and people are going to believe him, that's that. Muddies the waters on what, exactly? If they're arguing, "He couldn't say 'I can't breathe' because he couldn't breathe, so therefore the cop didn't know he couldn't breathe", where does that look any less criminal? Does the argument then become "well, he said 'I can't breathe', so therefore he could actually breathe" and hoping everybody forgets that the guy died?
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Dec 4, 2014 01:49
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I was shocked that even FOX News pundits think this was a bad decision. I flipped over there when I hear about it just to read the crawl or whatever. Maybe it's because it's in New York and that's where they live? I dunno but it was weird. They did get in a few digs at Obama and Sharpton though for somehow being irresponsible about this matter. I can't remember how that connection was made.
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Dec 4, 2014 01:50
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Sean Hannity spent the entire show saying the 'situation' was unbelievable and should never have happened. Guess why. Because the state shouldn't have the power to overly-tax cigarettes like NY does. That the state overtaxing them is what drove the man to be selling the black market cigs the cops confronted him about. The entire situation would never have happened if it wasn't for "The State" overflexing its muscles and thus causing this travesty. Couple things here: First, the entire production was done specifically so that in the future when confronted with "You hated Michael Brown, you racist!" by saying they had an entire show dedicated to the injustice done in New York and how they can't possibly be racist. Secondly, ah, the double-think here. "The Federal Government is too powerful. States should have more say in their own affairs as the Founders intended. Except here. In this specific case. Where the state specific laws contradicted my entire argument." Third, he kept referencing about how 'smoking pot' was totally ok in NY and never netted anything more than a summons and how if those laws had affected black market cigarettes than this would never have happened. While having stated in the past that states shouldn't be able to legalize weed and criticizing pro-weed movements. Basically it's just another round of "It's whatever we need it to be whenever we need it to be even when it isn't."
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Dec 4, 2014 01:59
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Kor posted:Muddies the waters on what, exactly? If they're arguing, "He couldn't say 'I can't breathe' because he couldn't breathe, so therefore the cop didn't know he couldn't breathe", where does that look any less criminal? Does the argument then become "well, he said 'I can't breathe', so therefore he could actually breathe" and hoping everybody forgets that the guy died? True, something like that would require viewers to lack critical thinking skills.
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Dec 4, 2014 02:04
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Hannity is a really bad off the cuff riffer and I'm always surprised when he puts himself out there with no net. Sounds like exactly what he was doing.
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Dec 4, 2014 02:05
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VitalSigns posted:Wait but isn't Ohio an open-carry state? How the gently caress can you just shoot someone holding a gun and say "oh I just reacted to seeing someone holding something totally legal"? Same exact thing happened to John Crawford in that Wal-Mart case. Same state too, in fact. All it takes is a white guy to freak out at the sight of a black kid holding an obviously fake gun and call 911, and the police will show up guns blazing. White guys open-carrying loaded AKs in Target to make a political point don't get shot because other white guys assume they're armed for a very good reason and don't call 911 falsely claiming that there's a thug in the store pointing a gun at random people. BiggerBoat posted:I was shocked that even FOX News pundits think this was a bad decision. I flipped over there when I hear about it just to read the crawl or whatever. Maybe it's because it's in New York and that's where they live? I dunno but it was weird. UFOTofuTacoCat posted:Yeah even my local AM "unaffiliated libertarian" is not happy with the Garner decision either. This guy toes the Republican shill line 90% of the time. Probably because Garner was wrestled to the ground and choked out over petty tax evasion by selling loose cigarettes. They want to argue that he deserved it, but another part of them believes that nobody should ever be punished for avoiding taxes. ^^or they're being dishonest and shedding crocodile tears, who knows.
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Dec 4, 2014 02:06
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Of course not. They'll say that the incident is regrettable, but that Garner is at fault for resisting arrest. Courtesy of the pictures thread: 
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Dec 4, 2014 02:09
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Holy poo poo the poll attached to this story says the preferred GOP presdential candidates right now are Mitt Romney and Ben Carson, in that order.  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/03/1348883/-Republican-voters-hooked-on-Mittens?detail=hide Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 02:28
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Same exact thing happened to John Crawford in that Wal-Mart case. Same state too, in fact. All it takes is a white guy to freak out at the sight of a black kid holding an obviously fake gun and call 911, and the police will show up guns blazing. edit: this one 
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Dec 4, 2014 02:45
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Hazo posted:Maybe I'm behind on the developments in that Cleveland story, but last I heard the kid who got killed was pointing a very realistic-looking gun at the cop? The cops claimed something to that effect, but there's a video out there showing them basically gunning him down before he even reacts, and he isn't holding the gun (or barely even reaches for it).
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Dec 4, 2014 02:53
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Probably because Garner was wrestled to the ground and choked out over petty tax evasion by selling loose cigarettes. They want to argue that he deserved it, but another part of them believes that nobody should ever be punished for avoiding taxes.
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Dec 4, 2014 02:57
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Pervis posted:The cops claimed something to that effect, but there's a video out there showing them basically gunning him down before he even reacts, and he isn't holding the gun (or barely even reaches for it). Yeah, the video shows the kid pacing around, cop car pulls up RIGHT NEXT TO THE KID and they shoot him before they even get out of the car. Totally in fear for their lives.
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Dec 4, 2014 03:03
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, the video shows the kid pacing around, cop car pulls up RIGHT NEXT TO THE KID and they shoot him before they even get out of the car. I also posted this in the USPOL thread but since it echoes how we're all feeling, I'm gonna post it here too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQKSQBJ58rY
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Dec 4, 2014 03:05
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Hazo posted:Maybe I'm behind on the developments in that Cleveland story, but last I heard the kid who got killed was pointing a very realistic-looking gun at the cop? The guy who called 911 told dispatchers that the gun was "probably fake." Given that information, any cop worth his salt would take more than a second and a half to assess the situation instead of pulling up to the kid and shooting him immediately, before even exiting the vehicle completely.
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Dec 4, 2014 03:24
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Rhesus Pieces posted:The guy who called 911 told dispatchers that the gun was "probably fake." To be fair, that information never got to the cops. HOWEVER, instead of being cautious police trying to apprehend a suspect, they rolled up like they were going through the McDonalds drive through and shot him right next to the car. No attempt to apprehend the kid that was pacing around looking pretty non-threatening.
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Dec 4, 2014 03:26
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I hear that the 12 year old kid was still kinda warm to the touch by the time they moved him, unlike Michael Brown. The cops have definitely shortened their "poke a dead black kid" time from 5-6 hours to 4-5 minutes. That's really impressive.
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Dec 4, 2014 03:52
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Phone posted:I hear that the 12 year old kid was still kinda warm to the touch by the time they moved him, unlike Michael Brown. The cops have definitely shortened their "poke a dead black kid" time from 5-6 hours to 4-5 minutes. That's really impressive. They also managed to somehow use less than 12 rounds. Progress!
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Dec 4, 2014 03:58
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CommieGIR posted:To be fair, that information never got to the cops. They also didn't attempt first-aid while he bled to death - keeping in mind that this is a 12-year old kid bleeding to death on the streets in front of them - and lied egregiously about what happened, which we only know because they were taped without their knowledge. Specifically, the guy said that Tamir Rice was with a crowd of people (he was completely alone), that he stashed his (fake toy) gun in his waistband, that he reached for it, and that they told him to put his hands up 3 times, all of which the tape disproves. It's basically the perfect case for all the conservatives wringing their hands about how Brown was no angel. It's a completely innocent 12 year old kid, the police response shows no regard for the kid's life whatsoever, the police lied extensively to cover their asses, and there is video of the incident. Periodiko fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 03:59
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Periodiko posted:They also didn't attempt first-aid while he bled to death - keeping in mind that this is a 12-year old kid bleeding to death on the streets in front of them - and lied egregiously about what happened, which we only know because they were taped without their knowledge. Specifically, the guy said that Tamir Rice was with a crowd of people, that he stashed his (fake toy) gun in his waistband, that he reached for it, and that they told him to put his hands up 3 times, all of which the tape disproves. And this is why body cameras are not a good idea and are difficult to implement. Also, filming police should be illegal. I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Barkley right here and say that "Cops are awesome".
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Dec 4, 2014 04:02
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