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Ah yes, just what the series needed to go out with a bang. Another stupid giant robot fight.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:09
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I was sure I saw Bryan or Mike confirm that the series finale would be titled "Avatar Korra". But I guess that was just fan speculation. Not that it really matters anyway.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:12
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Does that third one mean we might get to see someone Metalbending the Avatar Statue? 
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Dec 3, 2014 04:29
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End of the Legend of Korra Thread: ATLAShrugged. v v
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Dec 3, 2014 04:40
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hiddenriverninja posted:Are these real because if the last episode isn't titled Avatar Korra I'm going to be kind of angry. Same here, though I'd also accept just "Korra" to emphasize that while ATLA was about a person growing to be the Avatar, Korra was about the Avatar growing to be a person. Really most of those names are kind of disappointing (except the second to last), which makes me hope that they're fake.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:40
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Carlton Banks Teller posted:I often wonder at the age range of people who consistently moan about how dire Korra is -- is it not possible that there's some I-came-of-age-with-ATLA rose-colored glasses in effect? I'm 28 and I watched ATLA when I was 26. I just started rewatching ATLA and it definitely does some things better. The universe seems more interesting, the characters have more depth, etc. I mean, yeah, in paper Korra's plots seem more interesting but the execution is often lacking. If you took ATLA and reduced it to 12 episodes per season it definitely would be better than Korra, but the filler episodes hurt it.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:42
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When it comes to comparing shows from the past there's more to it than just going back and rewatching it and if it sucks by today's standards then you must be seeing it through rose-colored glasses, or you were a dumb kid who liked dumb stuff at the time. Don't get me wrong, those can play a huge part in how people view something from the past. But there's also the way art forms evolve. What used to feel like ground-breaking levels of serialization is now par for the course. Art and graphics that used to look awesome now look outdated. Issues that were important and controversial are now irrelevant. Pacing that seemed brisk and gripping now seems plodding. It's all relative to what everyone else was doing at the time, and what had come before it. And when I say art forms evolve, just like with biological evolution it doesn't mean they necessarily get *better*, just that they keep up with what the current audience wants. So the new stuff being more in tune with what people want now makes it easy to look back on older stuff and think it was worse. But I don't think that should invalidate how people felt about the show at the time.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:54
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hiddenriverninja posted:Are these real because if the last episode isn't titled Avatar Korra I'm going to be kind of angry.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:59
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gmq posted:the filler episodes hurt it. Nah. The shows can succeed at different things without one being better or worse than the other. Qualitative judgments like these really solve nothing. Avatar's filler episodes help build the universe and let the viewer really connect to the characters, something Korra's never obtained. Korra's truncated, heavily serialized seasons create narrative momentum that the original series never came close to. I think Korra's biggest problem, relative to ATLA, is that the stakes were so low at the beginning. Empathizing with desperate characters in the midst of a genocidal war is much easier than doing the same with powerful characters in a time of peace. The other problem would be how much story they try to fit in a season. So many scenes have to relay so much narrative information that they can feel suffocating. But it's not as if Avatar was immune to that. Remember The Southern Raiders, where an epic and morally complicated story of revenge happened in about 12 minutes? Steensma fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Dec 3, 2014 |
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Dec 3, 2014 05:09
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I remember the Southern Raiders pretty differently. The story of revenge occurred through the whole episode and had some excellent writing, along with building off of major character beats from through the whole series. It's, like, the one episode I would pick to highlight AtLA's biggest strengths, not its weaknesses.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:15
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I think it's a great episode that always felt compromised from happening right after The Boiling Rock. The first act had to be focused Azula's attack on the Western Air Temple and that moment ends up feeling disconnected from the rest, like a necessary and obligatory plot point that couldn't fit in elsewhere.
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Dec 3, 2014 05:24
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When I compare the two series, I think it comes down to this: ATLA was better at worldbuilding and injecting a real sense of mysticism (which is pretty important in a cartoon about magical kungfu). Korra takes those as a presupposition, which makes sense in the narrative, but also hamstrings most attempts at epic storytelling/conflict. The only way they could've possibly rectified that is by spending more time in the spirit world -- or rather, more quality time, exploring its mechanics and history beyond how it relates to humans? Korra largely outpaces ATLA in terms of mature storylines (which was a goal, so kudos on that at least). The only things on par with the 'heavy' parts of Korra, to me, are Zuko's evolution and Katara confronting the firebender that killed her mother. Granted, the execution often failed the intent, but I still appreciate the depth when I step back from the moments that ended up as real clunkers. I also don't mind Bolin (even at his worst, although 'kaw! kaw!' was pretty bad) so I accept that folks who hate him will rank the show several rungs lower just because. Inversely, I think I'd prefer to have seen an ATLA where Aang grew up a little more by the end of it, but he's like 13 or whatever so I don't know what I expect really. I find them both very watchable though, enough that I'd recommend them. Just to nerds or animus, mind you, but still. No need to scare people off! edit: also I p. much agree with everything Steensma just said. I think certainly the MAJORITY of filler episodes hurt ATLA, but Tales from Ba Sing Se was filler too, and that seems to be a favorite. Eh!
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Dec 3, 2014 05:33
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The filler episodes didn't hurt ATLA, they are what made it feel like a full world. If there's anything Korra could have used, especially in season 1, was filler episodes. Republic City was desperate for some fleshing out.
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Dec 3, 2014 06:19
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I think ATLA could have used less filler episodes and that LoK could have used more.Steensma posted:and let the viewer really connect to the characters, something Korra's never obtained. I connect with Legend of Korra's characters far better than with The Last Airbender's characters. That may just be because they're not a bunch of 12-14 year olds though.
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Dec 3, 2014 06:26
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Each series has its strengths and weaknesses, and we can bitch about what should have happened or how it could be improved, but what's done is done and we should learn to appreciate what we have.
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Dec 3, 2014 06:48
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Steensma posted:I think Korra's biggest problem, relative to ATLA, is that the stakes were so low at the beginning. Empathizing with desperate characters in the midst of a genocidal war is much easier than doing the same with powerful characters in a time of peace. Audience empathy is a product of good character writing and has nothing to do with the stakes. Only hacks try to make a character sympathetic contrived tragedy on a character to try to make them sympathetic or create a sense of urgency through a universe-destroying threat. Carlton Banks Teller posted:Korra largely outpaces ATLA in terms of mature storylines (which was a goal, so kudos on that at least). The only things on par with the 'heavy' parts of Korra, to me, are Zuko's evolution and Katara confronting the firebender that killed her mother. Granted, the execution often failed the intent, but I still appreciate the depth when I step back from the moments that ended up as real clunkers. I also don't mind Bolin (even at his worst, although 'kaw! kaw!' was pretty bad) so I accept that folks who hate him will rank the show several rungs lower just because. Inversely, I think I'd prefer to have seen an ATLA where Aang grew up a little more by the end of it, but he's like 13 or whatever so I don't know what I expect really. The attempts at being "mature" are a large part of what's bringing Korra down. While AtlA occasionally had some heavier subject matter, it understood that it was a family show and that there were certain topics it wouldn't be able to do justice to. You can't just jam real-world issues into a fantasy world, especially when you'll never be able to have ambiguity because every season has to end with the hero going super-saiyan and punching the villain. And was there a reason for edgy fanfiction poo poo like bending the air out of someone's lungs or having someone's head explode?
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Dec 3, 2014 09:08
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Microcline posted:And was there a reason for edgy fanfiction poo poo like bending the air out of someone's lungs or having someone's head explode? No more of a reason than having a guy blow himself off a cliff after taking a boomerang to the face.
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Dec 3, 2014 09:17
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Microcline posted:And was there a reason for edgy fanfiction poo poo like bending the air out of someone's lungs or having someone's head explode? yeah: it was rad as hell.  For real though, how are those edgy fanfiction? Because fans had postulated in the past about airbender asphyxiation, and that people liked those moments?
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Dec 3, 2014 10:03
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Pro-bending was pretty much filler, guys. Also genocide must count as edgy fan-fiction stuff too, huh?
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Dec 3, 2014 12:20
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ImpAtom posted:B:TAS was pretty much excellent and Batman Beyond is a better sequel series than Korra. What if the new batman, was like, sorta power armor, but instead of bruce it's this kinda dark and edgy teen in it, and bruce is like old because it's in the future.  The actual show was pretty flawed and got cut short, but it was also really entertaining and fun and well solid/good.
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Dec 3, 2014 12:35
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Batman Beyond is really good, and had a lot of great moments and cool episodes. Mr Freeze  Also, it was kinda funny how many villains didn't survive their encounter with Terry. Also, Blight was rad as hell. Wasn't there a spinoff show about some robot assasin that first showed up in BB?
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Dec 3, 2014 14:57
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All I remember about Batman Beyond is the PSA "Hey kids, drugs are baaaad" episode. 
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Dec 3, 2014 15:23
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DrSunshine posted:All I remember about Batman Beyond is the PSA "Hey kids, drugs are baaaad" episode. That's definitely a thing you can remember. Personally I remember him killing off the Joker for good. 
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Dec 3, 2014 15:46
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RottenK posted:Wasn't there a spinoff show about some robot assasin that first showed up in BB? The Zeta Project. The robot design continued to show up in the DCAU after the show was cancelled as training robots iirc.
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Dec 3, 2014 15:59
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RottenK posted:Batman Beyond is really good, and had a lot of great moments and cool episodes. Mr Freeze BB was best at the beginning and the end. Blight was basically a more realistic Lex Luthor. And a lot of the world building episodes and introductory episodes for some of the recurring characters were well done. Most of the BB original rouges gallery kind of fell by the wayside mid-way through when it became obvious that they were one-note villains or just bad OG Batman villain ripoffs. Really, some of the best episodes were just dealing with Bruce's old antagonists (e.g., Freeze, Ra's, etc.). The worst parts really were the high school centric episodes. But the couple Batman Beyond centric episodes in JLU and the Return of the Joker movie were loving phenominal. (Old Static  )
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Dec 3, 2014 16:11
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DrSunshine posted:All I remember about Batman Beyond is the PSA "Hey kids, drugs are baaaad" episode. Now I'm imagining how the Avatar world would deal with drugs and how horrifying junkie benders could be.
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Dec 3, 2014 16:32
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Mraagvpeine posted:Now I'm imagining how the Avatar world would deal with drugs and how horrifying junkie benders could be.
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Dec 3, 2014 16:44
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VanSandman posted:Pro-bending was pretty much filler, guys. That actually reminds me that my favorite episode of season 1 was the relationship drama one.
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Dec 3, 2014 16:57
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Steensma posted:That actually reminds me that my favorite episode of season 1 was the relationship drama one. How was your favorite season 1 episode not the attack on the stadium?
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Dec 3, 2014 17:06
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Microcline posted:The attempts at being "mature" are a large part of what's bringing Korra down. While AtlA occasionally had some heavier subject matter, it understood that it was a family show and that there were certain topics it wouldn't be able to do justice to. You can't just jam real-world issues into a fantasy world, "Action cartoons shouldn't try to be anything more than a kid's show because they can't go all the way and become Breaking Bad all at once." Is what I'm getting out of this. I don't like this opinion. I don't like it at all. Also Zaheer airbending the oxygen out of the Earth Queen's lungs was a highpoint for the entire franchise. That was awesome.
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Dec 3, 2014 17:14
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Microcline posted:And was there a reason for edgy fanfiction poo poo like bending the air out of someone's lungs or having someone's head explode? Because it's cool. Because it's a kung fu cartoon about elemental wizards.
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Dec 3, 2014 17:23
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DrSunshine posted:All I remember about Batman Beyond is the PSA "Hey kids, drugs are baaaad" episode. It's kind of a depressing show when you realize how broken Bruce is as a man with how much his crusade on crime has cost him. Though at least Return of the Joker showed that he fixed some of his burnt bridges  Also JLU is still great even though CN liked to gently caress with them with the schedule changes and giving them another season even though "Epilogue" was supposed to be the series finale (There was a reason it ended with a recreation of the opening scene of "On Leather Wings") Though Season 3 of JLU is still great since it gave us this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSQ-h_2WGkw
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Dec 3, 2014 17:23
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Joker's unedited death scene in Return of the Joker was great. Perfect last words. "...That's not funny..."
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Dec 3, 2014 20:29
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achillesforever6 posted:Or the video games one Of course, the Batman Beyond Unlimited revealed even more horrible things in that universe like Barbra getting pregnant with Bruce's child and then later losing it in a fight, or supervillain making her fiance (not Dick) jump off of a building in exchange for not hurting her or anyone else at their own wedding, or Vixen's death being the spark that brought John Stewart and Hawkgirl back together.
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Dec 3, 2014 23:48
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The Sharmat posted:"Action cartoons shouldn't try to be anything more than a kid's show because they can't go all the way and become Breaking Bad all at once." Is what I'm getting out of this. I don't like this opinion. I don't like it at all. Maturity isn't about sex or violence. Look at S.E. Hinton's The Outsiders, which like Korra, is for young teenagers. The book is capable of dealing with urban poverty and gang violence without treating them as cheap props. AtlA and Korra are unable to address certain topics because they have a very strict narrative structure where there's a well-defined hero and villain and in the last episode the problem will always be resolved by the hero punching the villain.
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Dec 3, 2014 23:49
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You're still ultimately criticizing LoK for giving their antagonists motives beyond "POWER" and saying it should go back to the standard of the oh-so-memorable Zhao and Ozai and I just don't understand it. Would LoK be better if it explored these motives more? Absolutely. Does including them at all make it worse than ATLA, which didn't even try? Apparently. And I just don't get that and I guess I never will. I think this argument has been had a shitload though and no side is ever going to change the other's minds.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:30
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Zedd posted:Batman Beyond had a concept so dumb as a sequel to Batman:TAS it's unreal. The premise is actually "What if Batman were also Spider-Man?" and considered in that light it makes much more sense.
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Dec 4, 2014 02:58
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The Sharmat posted:You're still ultimately criticizing LoK for giving their antagonists motives beyond "POWER" and saying it should go back to the standard of the oh-so-memorable Zhao and Ozai and I just don't understand it. I feel like a broken record at this point in these threads but execution will always trump concept. ATLA peddled in simpler themes and motivations but it generally handled them with aplomb. Korra, meanwhile, has tried "mature" concepts while generally utterly failing to deliver on them. Being a more "mature" concept means jack poo poo if you deliver on them for poo poo. There's nothing inherently wrong with trying to introduce a more nuanced character/story/whathaveyou, no. Including them in itself doesn't make the show worse than ATLA. It's how it follows through on its attempts that makes the show worse, because it does so extremely poorly and in the end reeks of trying to deliver a rather substance-less "edge." It doesn't work when your storytelling ability in itself hasn't aged up to match the concepts you're trying to put to work for you. I said it in the season 1 thread: I think Mike and Bryan are legitimately fantastic at making programming with generally black-and-white themes that children can get invested in while providing just enough of a special touch to the program to entertain older viewers. Beyond that, with more complicated themes? Not so much. Oh Snapple! fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 05:36
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Yeah I completely understanding everything you're saying, I just don't agree at all in this particular case and I don't think I'm ever going to. EDIT: Also may I submit that it actually wasn't aiming as high as everyone seems to have assumed it was aiming before any of its seasons aired? I didn't follow any pre-release hype because Book 2 of Legend of Korra was already on the air by the time I'd even watched The Last Airbender so I had no preconceptions of how mature it was allegedly supposed to be and was just pleasantly surprised that it was more mature than TLA. The Sharmat fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 05:44
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That's completely fair 
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Dec 4, 2014 05:46
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