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zoux posted:People didn't like it, they blamed the Republicans, and the GOP was hand wringing for a while. Then America instantly forgot they were mad at them and welp now here we are. You forgetting the Obamacare website melt down. Hardly a little thing, and swung a good number of people against the Democrats. Without that happening the GOP would have been screwed.
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Dec 4, 2014 14:37
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ANIME AKBAR posted:So how do you actually find out about when local protests are scheduled? I live in Cleveland and I know there has to be something going on, but for the life of me I can't find any info. Maybe because I don't use twitter? fergusonresponse.tumblr.com
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Dec 4, 2014 14:48
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Kalman posted:So you think that none of those grand jurors in the Garner case looked at the video, assuming the prosecutor didn't show it to them (unlikely), and that the fact that the prosecutor wasn't pressing 100% is why they didn't indict? I could throw a rock and find a plurality of people in Staten Island that don't see a problem with a cop choking out a black dude to death. It's not a surprising result.
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Dec 4, 2014 14:50
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Kalman posted:So you think that none of those grand jurors in the Garner case looked at the video, assuming the prosecutor didn't show it to them (unlikely), and that the fact that the prosecutor wasn't pressing 100% is why they didn't indict? Hell, don't get me wrong, it's certainly a factor that the jurors are generally white (and optionally middle-class) people who have been taught that the police are their friends (and in practice, they would be, since they are white). It compounds the problem.
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Dec 4, 2014 14:55
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It compounds it in the sense while itd be very hard to dredge up people who would honestly watch that video and not see something wrong with it (as in, I've know a guy that likes Mike Huckabee and Reagan, watches Fox News, hates rap, thinks Micheal Brown was a thug that had it coming, and even he thinks the lack of indictment is outrageous), it is also very, very easy to convince people of something they want to believe. Nobody likes it when cops behave badly, so it makes it easy for some people to buy into whatever poo poo reasoning they need to make it so the cops never did anything wrong at all. I can't imagine, with complete control over proceedings, it would be difficult to convince uninformed people that Garner had it coming.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:11
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Antti posted:Hell, don't get me wrong, it's certainly a factor that the jurors are generally white (and optionally middle-class) people who have been taught that the police are their friends (and in practice, they would be, since they are white). I do not get where the trust in police comes from. I'm white, from the midwest, middle class, and have in-laws that are police. By age 12 I knew that the police were not my friends. How do these jurors not get that?
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Dec 4, 2014 15:16
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Yeah implicit trust in the police is something I just don't understand but apparently a lot of people have. Even my deep south, republican relatives don't trust the police, especially after some locals tried to frame my cousin for the murder of his wife partly related to their deputies dealing drugs.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:19
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Johnnie5 posted:fergusonresponse.tumblr.com Welp nothing in upcoming, that's a surprise. There was apparently a pretty big protest right after the Tamir Rice video came out, but I think it was impromptu. I'm guessing these things aren't organized up here, likely because none of the local campuses are very active.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:39
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PupsOfWar posted:Yes, many in the GoP still believe that blacks, latinos or women will blatantly vote against their interests or safety purely because a candidate looks like them. At this point it's less of a strategy thing and more of a willful expression of contempt for the rational faculties of minorities, though. That's straight up projection (again) because those white citizens will only ever vote for the "wholesome looking" white politician. No matter his actual actions in office, they'll vote against their interests solely based on race.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:48
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anonumos posted:That's straight up projection (again) because those white citizens will only ever vote for the "wholesome looking" white politician. No matter his actual actions in office, they'll vote against their interests solely based on race. What if their interests are race?
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Dec 4, 2014 15:50
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Enigma89 posted:Calling him a "loving retard" Rand Paul is a loving retard.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:50
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Charlz Guybon posted:You forgetting the Obamacare website melt down. Hardly a little thing, and swung a good number of people against the Democrats. Without that happening the GOP would have been screwed. Why did anyone even care about that? My own work had their open enrollment site down for a few days, thus I had to wait until successfully enrolling, which is what happened to those who wanted to use the exchange site. Big deal.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:54
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Mykkel posted:I do not get where the trust in police comes from. I'm white, from the midwest, middle class, and have in-laws that are police. By age 12 I knew that the police were not my friends. How do these jurors not get that? A week ago I was driving home with a friend, crossing an intersection with a green light, and a PD car came within a few inches of T-boning my passenger side while trying to run a red light. He slammed his brakes, then I did and pulled over because I was freaking out. He pulls over next to me and asks if I was all right, I reply yes. Then I asked what happened, he paused and shrugged his shoulders. I ask if I had a green light, he said yes. I pause, waiting for some sort of apology, and he goes on to warn me about how "a lot of people speed at this intersection." He's hinting that he thinks I might have been speeding. I sputter for a couple seconds at this bullshit and then give up. This guy obviously has no intention of admitting he did anything wrong, and he can make my life hell if he wants to. So I say good night and drive off. I can't imagine what I'd be going through now if he had actually hit me, I'd be completely hosed.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:55
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anonumos posted:That's straight up projection (again) because those white citizens will only ever vote for the "wholesome looking" white politician. No matter his actual actions in office, they'll vote against their interests solely based on race. Kind of like how Jess Jackson Jr keeps getting elected? People voting for candidates based entirely on race, looks, and name recognition isn't exclusively a white thing.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:57
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Rhesus Pieces posted:#Crimingwhilewhite is the #1 trending topic on twitter right now. It's basically white people sharing what they got away with in front of police at some point in their lives, fully aware that it's stuff no black person could think of doing without getting their lives ruined. I ran a red light at something like 2am on a Friday morning once with a black friend in the car. No other traffic for miles and I was ready to get home. Late band practice, completely sober, just tired. Cop pulled me over, I explained the situation, he let me go with a rather happy "warning" to maybe be more patient next time. My black friend's response when we were on our way "You mother fucker."
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Dec 4, 2014 15:57
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:Rand Paul is a loving retard. Na I would feel bad beating up a mentally challenged person. Noogies on that Rand Paul hair nest, though, now that'd make me feel great.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:02
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Radish posted:Yeah implicit trust in the police is something I just don't understand but apparently a lot of people have. Even my deep south, republican relatives don't trust the police, especially after some locals tried to frame my cousin for the murder of his wife partly related to their deputies dealing drugs. It's related to the (lack of) contact you have with the police.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:05
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computer parts posted:It's related to the (lack of) contact you have with the police. Yeah I think it really boils down to this.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:07
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Mykkel posted:I do not get where the trust in police comes from. I'm white, from the midwest, middle class, and have in-laws that are police. By age 12 I knew that the police were not my friends. How do these jurors not get that? Plus if the guy who is supposed to be making the case isn't making the case well...
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Dec 4, 2014 16:17
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ANIME AKBAR posted:Welp nothing in upcoming, that's a surprise. There was apparently a pretty big protest right after the Tamir Rice video came out, but I think it was impromptu. I'm guessing these things aren't organized up here, likely because none of the local campuses are very active. There was the protest that started at Public Square and some people held up traffic on the shoreway. That happened (I think) the night after the Ferguson decision- as a joint protest with the Ferguson decision and what happened to Tamir Rice. The Rice shooting video was not released at that point in time. Also the police originally didn't release the video out of respect of the victim's family
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Dec 4, 2014 16:20
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I've only had good interactions with the police and got off once going 85 in 70. Granted, it was mid missouri and the novelty of pulling over an Asian man in s suit on the way to middle of nowhere Missouri was probably enough for him. My dad dislikes cops and isn't shy about it and has nothing but bad interactions even though he looks like a middle aged college professor who drives a Prius. My mother once got mad at a speeding ticket and started shouting and crying which caused the police to call for several units of backup. Nothing like a bunch of armed overgrown white men menaced by a 5 foot Asian lady in a Lexus
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Dec 4, 2014 16:22
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Around eight grade they really need to set up programs to educate kids about the police, and their role in the justice system. Basically if nothing else pound it into peoples head from a young age that If they are arrested. Shut up, cooperate, and request a lawyer. But most important. Don't talk to the cops!
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Dec 4, 2014 16:25
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HarlanHell posted:Around eight grade they really need to set up programs to educate kids about the police, and their role in the justice system. Basically if nothing else pound it into peoples head from a young age that If they are arrested. Shut up, cooperate, and request a lawyer. But most important. Don't talk to the cops! DARE is pretty effective at demonstrating to kids why they shouldn't trust cops.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:31
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If you graduated from a public high school more than a few years ago the best first pass at understanding cops might be thinking about your classmates who became cops.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:36
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pangstrom posted:If you graduated from a public high school more than a few years ago the best first pass at understanding cops might be thinking about your classmates who became cops. A cop's kid who sold weed out of a Trapper Keeper/offered girls weed to go on dates, a guy who almost got expelled several times for groping girls and fathered a child at 14, and a perfectly nice girl - who got arrested for trafficking oxys into the county jail. Yep, checks out!
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Dec 4, 2014 16:40
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Peven Stan posted:I've only had good interactions with the police and got off once going 85 in 70. Granted, it was mid missouri and the novelty of pulling over an Asian man in s suit on the way to middle of nowhere Missouri was probably enough for him. My dad dislikes cops and isn't shy about it and has nothing but bad interactions even though he looks like a middle aged college professor who drives a Prius. My mother once got mad at a speeding ticket and started shouting and crying which caused the police to call for several units of backup. Nothing like a bunch of armed overgrown white men menaced by a 5 foot Asian lady in a Lexus Well Everyone knows Asians can't drive and that they are practically white. <--legitimately what my racist uncle thinks. So the cop probably just laughed it off on that, and not the novelty, cops hate novelty.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:49
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:I ran a red light at something like 2am on a Friday morning once with a black friend in the car. No other traffic for miles and I was ready to get home. Late band practice, completely sober, just tired. Cop pulled me over, I explained the situation, he let me go with a rather happy "warning" to maybe be more patient next time. It was dark, the cop probably just didn't see your friend
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Dec 4, 2014 16:54
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Coolness Averted posted:Actually I'd say more images humanizing victims is a good thing. You're right using a single picture to prove character 100% isn't a good idea. Countering the narrative of scary urban animals hulking out like savages by showing genuinely human moments of the victims of a crime committed is a pretty good idea though. That's a fair point. I know we're all rightly mad about cop abuse but here's some goodish news: Obamacare is working. Notable from those articles are the facts that : 1)despite Republican assurances of skyrocketing costs, HC cost growth last year was only 3.6 %, the lowest growth rate since 1960, and Medicaid/care expenditures as a percentage of GDP are flat since 2009. 2)The uninsured rate continues to decline, and is now at 12.4%, down 30 percent from a year ago 3)The current enrollment period is going well, with 1.5 million people applying for coverage in two weeks.
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Dec 4, 2014 16:54
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:I ran a red light at something like 2am on a Friday morning once with a black friend in the car. No other traffic for miles and I was ready to get home. Late band practice, completely sober, just tired. Cop pulled me over, I explained the situation, he let me go with a rather happy "warning" to maybe be more patient next time. "Sorry, officer, I, uh...I didn't know I couldn't do that."
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Dec 4, 2014 16:55
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Alter Ego posted:"Sorry, officer, I, uh...I didn't know I couldn't do that." Hah. Nah, the incredulous part to my friend was me just telling the cop I had a long day, I waited a long rear end time for that light and wanted to get home. So I ran it since there was absolutely no traffic.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:01
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Kalman posted:So you think that none of those grand jurors in the Garner case looked at the video, assuming the prosecutor didn't show it to them (unlikely), and that the fact that the prosecutor wasn't pressing 100% is why they didn't indict? Out of a study of 162,000 federal grand juries, you know how many of them came back with no indictment? 11. If the prosecutor really wanted to get this to trial, it would have gotten to trial. Simple as that. I'm currently reading stuff about how the officer's unrebutted 2 hour testimony, going through the video and what actually happened according to him, was key in the grand jury decision. You know what makes me even more bummed (enought to check out of politics again, at least for a little bit)? The underlying factors that caused this to happen, and others so much like it. A police force that protects bullies and insecure incompetents to get some "action", like some sort of B action movie, against a population they see as intrinsically different and dangerous. Black children cannot even be children. Its enough to make you hurl.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:02
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pangstrom posted:If you graduated from a public high school more than a few years ago the best first pass at understanding cops might be thinking about your classmates who became cops. I know not one but two good ones (or at least good folks who became law enforcement). Admittedly, one went into a somewhat sophisticated state police job and the other is a federal law enforcement forensic accountant, so....
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Dec 4, 2014 17:02
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Shageletic posted:Out of a study of 162,000 federal grand juries, you know how many of them came back with no indictment? Federal prosecutors don't bring cases they don't have a good chance of winning. They also don't have to allow the defendant to give unrebutted testimony, which NY state law requires. Maybe there are meaningful differences and the examples aren't perfectly commensurate.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:06
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HarlanHell posted:Kind of like how Jess Jackson Jr keeps getting elected? People voting for candidates based entirely on race, looks, and name recognition isn't exclusively a white thing. Jesse Jackson Jr. is in federal prison dude.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:09
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Kalman posted:Federal prosecutors don't bring cases they don't have a good chance of winning. They also don't have to allow the defendant to give unrebutted testimony, which NY state law requires. Read some of the legal blogs out there. The way this grand jury proceeded was perplexing and outright strange. This isn't as damning as the federal numbers, but even with NY's mandated protections (which I didn't state didn't exist), only 7% of grand juries came back with "No True Bills". What are you exactly arguing here again? That this isn't unusual? There's a reasons why the federal govt is weighing in here.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:14
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Who is ready for two loving years of this poo poo?
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Dec 4, 2014 17:14
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I know not one but two good ones (or at least good folks who became law enforcement). I know one guy who is in the FBI who is okay though he has some nutty road rage.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:17
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The only thing I can really take away from the last two weeks of protests and responses to protests is: "Black people need to do a better job convincing white people not to brutalize them." I'm not sure what else to take away from comments that are constantly, "Gay marriage had so much success because they told their stories and connected with people. There are a lot of white people who are empathetic but need the movement to connect with their hearts." Like Chris Rock said "America needs to produce nicer white people," and it just seems so bizarre to me that the current thinking is that the only way you can fight racism and systemic injustice is to convince white people to be the saviors of black people once again. Like we went through this 50 years ago, sacrificed our best leaders, and we have to do it again because that was 50 years ago and the altar of white privilege demands fresh sacrifices.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:19
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The difference is that gay people can be white so you have high ranking politicians that have to deal with their children being gay. If they aren't total monsters they realize that maybe gay isn't some kind of disease or moral failing and then accept that. White people, specifically those in power, will never have their kids suddenly revealed to be racial minorities or poor. The idea that there isn't 400 years of empathetic stories of racial oppression for white people to feel bad about and connect with is ludicrous. A huge amount of white Americans are culturally offended just having racial inequality in the past mentioned let alone things happening in the present. Waiting for them to feel magnanimous enough to sort everything out is tantamount to saying things should never be fixed. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 17:22
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zoux posted:That's a fair point. Lalala can't hear you lalala.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:42
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