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Rev was never an unassailable t1 deck 
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Dec 4, 2014 17:30
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rabidsquid posted:Rev was never an unassailable t1 deck It wasn't unassailable, it was however T1 during some of Rav-Theros Standard. That being said there is a large subset of players who despise control strategies, even if they suck, and Rev is the durdliest control card that ever durdled.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:32
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Madmarker posted:It was T1 but there is a large subset of players who despise control strategies, and Rev is the durdliest control card that ever durdled. I can think of two counterexamples, but they're from 1993 and 1997, so I think I'll let you have the hyperbole.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:33
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Chamale posted:"Here's my new combo deck. It's all tutors, Regrowths, and Recoups." Temur reverb/twincast
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Dec 4, 2014 17:35
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Chamale posted:I can think of two counterexamples, but they're from 1993 and 1997, so I think I'll let you have the hyperbole. Considering I was 5 in 93, my awareness of super old magic cards can sometimes be rather poor. Are you thinking of Stasis?
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Dec 4, 2014 17:35
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Rev really sucked to play against in draft. Now that it isn't in standard or anything, cruel ultimatum is better.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:36
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Madmarker posted:Considering I was 5 in 93, my awareness of super old magic cards can sometimes be rather poor. Are you thinking of Stasis? Stasis wasn't a control deck, it was prison. I think he's referring to "the Deck".
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Dec 4, 2014 17:37
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Elyv posted:Stasis wasn't a control deck, it was prison. I think he's referring to "the Deck". Oh that thing that won with Serra Angel. I can see that.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:39
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Elyv posted:Stasis wasn't a control deck, it was prison. I think he's referring to "the Deck". "The Deck" had two copies of a creature in it. I'm thinking of Timetwister control, a deck from before the 4-of limit that operated by exiling a few creatures with Swords to Plowshares, then casting Timetwister so the opponent would run out of cards first. The other durdle card is Whispers of the Muse, which is "Draw a card and put Whispers of the Muse back into your hand" for 5U. There was a particularly miserable control deck around then that would either counter your spell or cast Whispers and just drown the opponent in gradual card advantage.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:41
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Oh my god it's here and it's incredibly majestic  
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Dec 4, 2014 18:58
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aunt jemima posted:Oh my god it's here and it's incredibly majestic Wow. (not a one word reply)
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Dec 4, 2014 19:04
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Why did they get rid of mana burn? Not that I miss it or ever really interacted with it.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:08
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Zombie #246 posted:Why did they get rid of mana burn? Not that I miss it or ever really interacted with it.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:09
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Zombie #246 posted:Why did they get rid of mana burn? Not that I miss it or ever really interacted with it. Because its dumb mechanic that is unintuitive to new players and doesn't really add anything to the game. To quote Maro: Maro posted:It removed a rule that wasn't carrying its weight. When we first thought about removing mana burn, I asked my design team to play all their games without it so we could get a sense of what its removal would feel like. Note that we had altered nothing in the set related to this change. We just played the set as it was without mana burn. After a month, I asked my team to tell me their experiences. The result: not one of the five-member team in a month played a game where it came up. One of the best tests in screenwriting about the necessity of a scene is to remove it. If the story works just as well without it, it wasn't needed. We had removed mana burn from the game and we couldn't tell it was gone—not the best of defenses.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:10
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Bugsy posted:I don't know if this is national or not, but all cards are buy one get one free at Wlagreens if you have their loyalty card. Picked up 16 packs of Khans at lunch for 32 including tax. Hey just wanted to post and say thanks for alerting the thread to this. Over lunch I went by Walgreens and got 20 packs of Khans of Tarkir for fun. They had two Intro Decks for Khans also but I didn't grab those. Are they worth it? For some background: I'm just coming back to Magic. I first got into it during 4th Ed and Ice Ages and bailed right before Visions. I only really play casually with a group of friends right now, though I have some slight interest in going to FNM at some point in the future. The first deck I built was a Stasis deck (because I hate my friends and myself you see) and I'm really eyeing a old-school Necropotence deck too. Like I said, I bought the boosters mainly for fun and to fill out my nascent collection but also because I saw Khans had some nice dual/triple lands. Are the intro decks worth it for someone like me as a "Buy one get one"?
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Dec 4, 2014 19:28
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Nah, the intro decks are pretty much never worth it. They generally have sucky cards and the decks themselves are incredibly bleh. Even from someone who doesn't care for the whole buying singles, you're just best off not getting the intro decks.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:39
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Not really. In theory you could use it as a skeleton to build a deck off of, but I think that the artificial way they limit the copies of a card by rarity makes them contrived and not play like an actual deck a person would make.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:45
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aunt jemima posted:Oh my god it's here and it's incredibly majestic I hate you so much because now I need one of these things for myself. Did a high res image ever crop up when someone asked way back when?
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Dec 4, 2014 19:54
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BaronVonVaderham posted:I hate you so much because now I need one of these things for myself. Did a high res image ever crop up when someone asked way back when? I had posted it, but here it is again. Enjoy! Send me a pic of an in-progress game or something when you get it. 
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Dec 4, 2014 19:57
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Now that mana burn is gone, I don't have to be careful with lunatic ramping either. Cast cloud of faeries, untap serra's sanctum and this tropical island with three auras. It's more fun being able to ramp to hell. So, yeah, besides it not mattering in 99% of games, the removal of mana burn makes that remainder more fun instead of less. There's, like, exactly one situation in which it ever mattered, named Spectral Searchlight.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:04
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Now that mana burn is gone, I don't have to be careful with lunatic ramping either. Cast cloud of faeries, untap serra's sanctum and this tropical island with three auras. It's more fun being able to ramp to hell. I think it's funny that braid of fire, the enchantment that gives you increasing amounts of free red mana on your upkeep, is still unplayable even after it's only drawback has been retconned from the game.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:15
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Now that mana burn is gone, I don't have to be careful with lunatic ramping either. Cast cloud of faeries, untap serra's sanctum and this tropical island with three auras. It's more fun being able to ramp to hell. quote:So, yeah, besides it not mattering in 99% of games, the removal of mana burn makes that remainder more fun instead of less. There's, like, exactly one situation in which it ever mattered, named Spectral Searchlight.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:17
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:I think it's funny that braid of fire, the enchantment that gives you increasing amounts of free red mana on your upkeep, is still unplayable even after it's only drawback has been retconned from the game. Wow, what's the deal with that card not being used? I've never played a format where that card would be legal, but do the red decks in those formats just not have any use ramp or what? Because, for those purposes at least, it seems really powerful
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Dec 4, 2014 21:23
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Mana goes away at the end of each phase, so it's only useful for things on your upkeep.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:24
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goferchan posted:Wow, what's the deal with that card not being used? I've never played a format where that card would be legal, but do the red decks in those formats just not have any use ramp or what? Because, for those purposes at least, it seems really powerful The mana has to be used during your upkeep.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:24
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I could see it working pretty well with mana pingers like Olivia or kumano. Also batterskull bounces become free. That's all I can think of and they're pretty marginal benefits.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:30
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aunt jemima posted:Oh my god it's here and it's incredibly majestic The only playmat I have ever seen that can match this is someone that found a high-res image of bonfire.gif, particularly the frame where Kibler is putting his hands up in the air, and then got Kibler and LSV to sign it.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:37
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All the good red Instants are cheap anyway and you'd rather just have an extra one of them in your deck instead of Braid of Fire.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:39
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It just isn't that good. Turn 2, play braid and turn is wasted. Turn 3, you get 1 extra mana that can only be used on instants you had in your hand since last turn, so why didn't you just play it turn 2 to get you closer to winning the game? Turn 4, you get 2 very situational mana from casting a 2 mana spell 2 turns ago, that card is worse than a mulligan. By turn 5, you've played all the cards in your hand that could be cast during your upkeep, so unless you built your deck around being slow and awkward in the fastest color, that's the best case scenario. Play it any later and it is a dead card. Red has all kinds of rituals that give you mana the turn you cast them, add to storm, and can be used when you need them. Maybe if you invented some weird rear end jeskai control thing I could see it useful, but there isn't a deck that wants it.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:39
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At one time I had a deck with 4 braid of fire and some Gemstone Array alongside some other cumulative upkeep stuff, some activated abilities like deepfire elemental, I forget what all else. It was durdly as fuckbut when you're playing in 5-7 player games you can afford to sit around for 6 turns arraying gems.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:39
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Braid of Fire was a weird parasitic gimmick card that was basically just designed to be a way to pay for the cumulative upkeeps on other cards. Part of the problem is it just isn't actually that fast. You could try to combo it with Helix Pinnacle or something but by the time that actually works the game is long over.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:41
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homerlaw posted:Mana goes away at the end of each phase, so it's only useful for things on your upkeep. Madmarker posted:The mana has to be used during your upkeep. Duhh, I knew that but I guess I didn't read really carefully. In that case, yikes, with mana burn that's pretty rough but even without it it doesn't seem very exciting.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:41
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It could have Cumulative Upkeep: Add RRRRR to your mana pool and it still wouldn't be good.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:43
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Toshimo posted:It could have Cumulative Upkeep: Add RRRRR to your mana pool and it still wouldn't be good.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:51
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Entropic posted:I think that would be getting to the point where it's actually tempting to run it in a burn deck with some instant X spells. Turn 4 Comet Storm you for 10+ after bolting / lava spiking you a few times seems pretty good. until you have no cards in hand so all that mana on your upkeep is worthless, just like the card
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Dec 4, 2014 21:53
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then you'd just draw into all your X spells and never see a braid
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Dec 4, 2014 21:54
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Getting 10 mana for free on the upkeep of your fourth turn seems extremely abuseable, if nothing else you can like stroke of genius for 7 on your upkeep.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:18
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Gyshall posted:until you have no cards in hand so all that mana on your upkeep is worthless, just like the card How many X=10 spells do you think you need to cast before the game ends? Heck, forget X spells, just play a creature with the firebreathing mechanic and either trample or evasion.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:34
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Lottery of Babylon posted:How many X=10 spells do you think you need to cast before the game ends? Heck, forget X spells, just play a creature with the firebreathing mechanic and either trample or evasion. Sure, however you are spending 2 mana and a card for HIGHLY restricted mana down the line. That's the problem with the card, you have to wait about 4 turns after you play it before it has any real benefit. And even then you need instant speed x spells, which there are a enough of, but even in EDH you have better things to be doing with your cards. In eternal formats its just far to slow. If someone was playing a cube of horrible cards and I had to choose between drafting a braid of fire or a chimney imp, I take the chimney imp every time. If you want an enchantment that grants you an insurmountable advantage during your upkeep down the line, an actual GOOD card that does this is Assemble the Legion.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:38
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Madmarker posted:Sure, however you are spending 2 mana and a card for HIGHLY restricted mana down the line. That's the problem with the card, you have to wait about 4 turns after you play it before it has any real benefit. And even then you need instant speed x spells, which there are a enough of, but even in EDH you have better things to be doing with your cards. In eternal formats its just far to slow. If someone was playing a cube of horrible cards and I had to choose between drafting a braid of fire or a chimney imp, I take the chimney imp every time. The post I was replying to was about the version that gives you five times as much mana. I agree that the actual card is just too slow.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:39
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