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Vahakyla posted:http://www.live5news.com/story/2754...pes=og.comments
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Dec 4, 2014 18:09
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| # ? May 30, 2024 13:36 |
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So speaking of gross police over reach, what happened with those cops in New Mexico who were forcing people to undergo colonoscopies and whatnot over county lines without proper warrants? Where hospital personnel punished in any way?
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Dec 4, 2014 18:17
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Solkanar512 posted:So speaking of gross police over reach, what happened with those cops in New Mexico who were forcing people to undergo colonoscopies and whatnot over county lines without proper warrants? Where hospital personnel punished in any way? Three of the six cops (2/3 city, 1/3 county) were still employed as of June, and none of the three city cops involved were disciplined.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:30
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I like how Independence PD barfed up the reports of the cop who shot Tamir Rice immediately. That guy sounded like a mess and a time bomb. What happened when Cleveland PD called them for a reference check? Do they do that?
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Dec 4, 2014 18:36
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Going by my Facebook feed, the *only* people defending the Garner decision seem to be currently employed in prosecutor's offices.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Going by my Facebook feed, the *only* people defending the Garner decision seem to be currently employed in prosecutor's offices. Is there a reason that these prosecutors are so....biased? I thought there was supposed to be a level of separation between prosecution and law enforcement?
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Dec 4, 2014 18:39
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CommieGIR posted:Is there a reason that these prosecutors are so....biased? I thought there was supposed to be a level of separation between prosecution and law enforcement? They're basically on the same team and depend on each other. Police careers depend on prosecutors to put the thugs they arrest in prison, and prosecutor careers depend on the police supplying with them with thugs and cooperating with evidence. Because of this a lot of them end up feeling they are part of the same team or tribe or family or what ever poo poo makes humans conspire to be awful in the name of supporting "us" against the evil "them". As a prosecutor if you go after a fellow team-member you'd be seen as a traitor, and in future police would be a lot less likely to cooperate with you, hurting or killing your career.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:49
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CommieGIR posted:Is there a reason that these prosecutors are so....biased? I thought there was supposed to be a level of separation between prosecution and law enforcement? Someone in another thread posited that even a well-meaning prosecutor could decide to spike a jury to avoid a sure-loss trial, but the more likely explanation is that they work closely with the PD's and on their behalf 99% of the time. They're in the circle.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:51
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SedanChair posted:I like how Independence PD barfed up the reports of the cop who shot Tamir Rice immediately. That guy sounded like a mess and a time bomb. What happened when Cleveland PD called them for a reference check? Do they do that? If they did, it would be the first time the Cleveland PD ever investigated something.
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Dec 4, 2014 18:59
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Also, FYI, Eric Holder is in Cleveland and going to give the findings of the Cleveland police probe.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:10
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CommieGIR posted:Is there a reason that these prosecutors are so....biased? I thought there was supposed to be a level of separation between prosecution and law enforcement? Besides the systemic argument that they work closely with the police, prosecutors are people who make a career of sending human beings to animalistic rape dungeons for petty nonsense, why is it a surprise that many of them are vicious little shits? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 4, 2014 19:12
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Baronjutter posted:They're basically on the same team and depend on each other. Police careers depend on prosecutors to put the thugs they arrest in prison, and prosecutor careers depend on the police supplying with them with thugs and cooperating with evidence. Because of this a lot of them end up feeling they are part of the same team or tribe or family or what ever poo poo makes humans conspire to be awful in the name of supporting "us" against the evil "them". As a prosecutor if you go after a fellow team-member you'd be seen as a traitor, and in future police would be a lot less likely to cooperate with you, hurting or killing your career. To put it in more human terms, they work with them all the time, and while they may have conflicts, they form the same associations with each other that any humans in mutually dependent jobs do. On top of the career reward structure there's just socialization.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:13
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Baronjutter posted:They're basically on the same team and depend on each other. Police careers depend on prosecutors to put the thugs they arrest in prison, and prosecutor careers depend on the police supplying with them with thugs and cooperating with evidence. Because of this a lot of them end up feeling they are part of the same team or tribe or family or what ever poo poo makes humans conspire to be awful in the name of supporting "us" against the evil "them". As a prosecutor if you go after a fellow team-member you'd be seen as a traitor, and in future police would be a lot less likely to cooperate with you, hurting or killing your career.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:13
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Grey Fox posted:And when a prosecutor is involved in any kind of action against organized crime, it's the cops that provide protection for the prosecutor and his/her family. At least, that's how it's been in my family in the past. This is one of those things played up for support rather than any sort of real threat. quote:The National Prosecutor Memorial in Columbia, S.C. lists the names of 11 prosecutors who were murdered [since 1967] in connection to their jobs, a testament to the rarity of such attacks.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:35
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/04/us/cleveland-justice-department-police-excessive-force/index.html?hpt=hp_t2quote:Cleveland police officers use guns, Tasers, pepper spray and their fists either unnecessarily or in retaliation, while using excessive force on those "who are mentally ill or in crisis," the Justice Department announced Thursday.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:36
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I honestly wonder if there are many sizeable police departments that wouldn't get that exact same distinction. I know we did here in Seattle after a few punch incidents followed by a Native American deaf whittler with a pocket knife getting one of those classic 3 second warnings before getting blown away. And we got our police chief replaced with one of the one-person-cleanup-crews.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:42
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Since having such a close working relationship between police and prosecutors causes such an obvious conflict of interest, how do we go about achieving the level of separation that would be required to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Would making all cases of police misconduct federal be enough?
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Dec 4, 2014 19:54
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I think first someone of real importance needs to admit that there is some sort of collusion or conflict of interest at all. It seems like there is some real effort going into pretending that officers rarely being held accountable is some sort of mysterious bug in the system and who knows what could possibly be the cause.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:58
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A more fundamental problem is that as a prosecutor, every day you go into work charging people based off work that police gave you. You're going to start trusting them as a whole even if you never really work with them directly because you're arguing based off of what they give you. That alone demonstrably changes people's opinions - if you give someone a side to argue (picked randomly) where they're supposed to do it regardless of what they actually think, after that exercise the person's views will generally have shifted somewhat to the point they just argued. On the other hand if you start distrusting them, you're probably going to look for a new job. You'll get survivorship bias that way.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:59
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Since having such a close working relationship between police and prosecutors causes such an obvious conflict of interest, how do we go about achieving the level of separation that would be required to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Would making all cases of police misconduct federal be enough? Many European countries have regulated so that any violations involving a certain police department are investigated and prosecuted by a department and prosecutors from an other region. This naturally is easier in governments that have nationally accredited police and prosecutors that have statutory authority nationwide, or even in other countries of the Union, even if they work for regional departments or courts. In the US, it doesn't really work the same way on the local level. The way the various levels of government works makes it extremely hard to do pretty much anything when a small municipality has a dipshit police chief, for example. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 19:59
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I honestly wonder if there are many sizeable police departments that wouldn't get that exact same distinction. I know we did here in Seattle after a few punch incidents followed by a Native American deaf whittler with a pocket knife getting one of those classic 3 second warnings before getting blown away. And we got our police chief replaced with one of the one-person-cleanup-crews. Yeah right now she's doing her best to make sure Westlake shoppers don't see any unhappy black people.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:11
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SedanChair posted:I like how Independence PD barfed up the reports of the cop who shot Tamir Rice immediately. That guy sounded like a mess and a time bomb. What happened when Cleveland PD called them for a reference check? Do they do that? http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_officer_who_s.html http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_police_never_reviewe.html quote:A Nov. 29, 2012 letter contained in Tim Loehmann's personnel file from the Independence Police Department says that during firearms qualification training he was "distracted" and "weepy."
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Dec 4, 2014 22:01
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Vahakyla posted:http://www.live5news.com/story/2754...pes=og.comments Yeah, there's been a few cases in the South where the police apparatus immediately does the right thing, and I can't figure out why. That trooper in South Carolina who shot that dude was charged for it pretty quickly, and the sheriff's deputy who killed a dog in Bumfuck, Texas, was immediately fired. Are there no police unions in the South?
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Dec 4, 2014 22:09
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This is all clearly Obama's fault if he hadn't gotten elected and challenged the white power structure then the white power structure wouldn't have felt the need to crack down on all the minorities. Don't you seeeeee they had it comingggggg they were alllll asking for itttttt. Oscar Grant, Trayvon Martin, John Crawford, Michael Brown, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner. They all got what they deserved for having the gall to be black while living in a country built for white mennnnn.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:47
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SedanChair posted:Nothing, it's just funny that squirting a chemical weapon into the eyes of nonviolent protesters didn't cause him any depression and anxiety. Don't you know it's HAAAAARRRRRDDDD to be a rich white person in white society?! won't someone PLEASE think of the rich white people?!?
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Dec 4, 2014 23:06
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I think requiring a four year degree for officers is an easy way to cut out the majority of the knuckleheads. I doubt you would have to increase pay by that much. Teachers need to have a bachelors to get hired and usually need a Masters degree within X amount of years and they usually have mediocre salaries. Police should need a associates to get hired and a bachelors within X years or else have considerable military experience. Improve the overall quality of the officers and you'll have a lot less of this kind of bullshit happening.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:32
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laxbro posted:I think requiring a four year degree for officers is an easy way to cut out the majority of the knuckleheads. I doubt you would have to increase pay by that much. Teachers need to have a bachelors to get hired and usually need a Masters degree within X amount of years and they usually have mediocre salaries. Police should need a associates to get hired and a bachelors within X years or else have considerable military experience. Improve the overall quality of the officers and you'll have a lot less of this kind of bullshit happening. Like that will happen. Most of the departments even filter by intelligence level.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:33
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laxbro posted:I think requiring a four year degree for officers is an easy way to cut out the majority of the knuckleheads. I doubt you would have to increase pay by that much. Teachers need to have a bachelors to get hired and usually need a Masters degree within X amount of years and they usually have mediocre salaries. Police should need a associates to get hired and a bachelors within X years or else have considerable military experience. Improve the overall quality of the officers and you'll have a lot less of this kind of bullshit happening. Associating "having a degree" with "being a better quality person" was a really nice little twist there at the end, but overall this just isn't incendiary to stir up more than a quarter page of argument. I rate it 3 trollfaces out of five.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:37
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So since we just had a video of the police murdering a man and it meant jack-poo poo, is there anyone who still thinks bodycams will be some kind of panacea?
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Dec 4, 2014 23:38
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Vitamin P posted:So since we just had a video of the police murdering a man and it meant jack-poo poo, is there anyone who still thinks bodycams will be some kind of panacea? No, but it's still a net positive. Encouraging people to immediately start recording any sort of police encounter they see or get into, and teaching them how to store the data off-device is what I'd prefer.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:40
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Vitamin P posted:So since we just had a video of the police murdering a man and it meant jack-poo poo, is there anyone who still thinks bodycams will be some kind of panacea? The video meant that at least there was a discussion about the event. Without video evidence this sort of thing usually just ends on the night of the event when the police sergeant writes a vague report and tells his cops to not talk to the media.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:44
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Requiring a bachelor's degree is not that rare for medium size city PD's or affluent towns.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:45
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awesmoe posted:Associating "having a degree" with "being a better quality person" was a really nice little twist there at the end, but overall this just isn't incendiary to stir up more than a quarter page of argument. I rate it 3 trollfaces out of five. You don't think people benefit from education?
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Dec 4, 2014 23:52
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Having a degree in America isn't about proving how good you are, it's about assuring people you don't eat paint chips on a daily basis. Which would be a great help to many of our police departments.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:55
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Accretionist posted:You don't think people benefit from education? I think that a shithead with a degree is still a shithead and that someone who would be a great cop wouldn't be a better cop from having a degree. So, no, in this context I don't think that getting a degree makes you a better person. I also speculate that requiring a degree would further exclude the underprivileged from the police force, which (just speaking as a layman, here) seems like a really loving bad idea. Intel&Sebastian posted:Having a degree in America isn't about proving how good you are, it's about assuring people you don't eat paint chips on a daily basis. Which would be a great help to many of our police departments. awesmoe fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 00:01
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PostNouveau posted:Yeah, there's been a few cases in the South where the police apparatus immediately does the right thing, and I can't figure out why. That trooper in South Carolina who shot that dude was charged for it pretty quickly, and the sheriff's deputy who killed a dog in Bumfuck, Texas, was immediately fired. Are there no police unions in the South? I have to think that with the SC trooper, part of the difference is that the victim is still alive.
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Dec 5, 2014 00:08
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awesmoe posted:You've shifted the goalposts from 'a degree' to education. I'm going to argue the original point. Nope, a degree certifies education. "Do you think the benefits of education would benefit police?," is where I wanted this to go. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 00:10
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The NYPD already requires an associates just to get hired, and a Bachelors for any kind of meaningful advancement. Lot of good that's did Eric Garner.
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Dec 5, 2014 00:16
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Having a four year degree or considerable military experience shows that you generally have your poo poo together and can generally adhere to protocol. It's an idiot filter. Scumbags and sociopaths will still slip through, but it keeps mouth breathing morons from making up a considerable portion of the police force.
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Dec 5, 2014 00:17
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| # ? May 30, 2024 13:36 |
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Not sure if this is the thread, but protests in boston tonight: https://www.facebook.com/events/559470887517841/
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Dec 5, 2014 00:19
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