|
Accretionist posted:Nope, a degree certifies education. Being unintelligent or especially uneducated doesn't make you a bad person or a bad cop. Being aggressive, being easily influenced by peer pressure, being intolerant, those are what I want filtered out of my police force. e: but I want to emphasize that I was originally replying to 'more degree=better than' which is just dumb.
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 00:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 07:15 |
|
|
Intel&Sebastian posted:No, but it's still a net positive. Encouraging people to immediately start recording any sort of police encounter they see or get into, and teaching them how to store the data off-device is what I'd prefer. This exact thing happened very recently in Denver: http://kdvr.com/2014/11/24/denver-police-accused-of-excessive-force-illegal-search/ quote:DENVER — FOX31 Denver has obtained video of a Denver Police officer punching an unarmed suspect in the face six times, then moments later, tripping the man’s seven-and-a-half-months pregnant girlfriend. WHOOPS
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 00:52
|
|
|
Soon freemen on the land will actually have magic words to make police stop beating them: "It's rendering directly to youtube!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 00:56
|
|
|
Wow, 70 pages. Has anyone discussed some level of federalization of local law enforcement? Have several, consolidated, federal police academies sprinkled around the U.S. that train all of our law enforcement personnel. That way the federal government would have control over all the courses and training of every officer in the U.S. It would certainly make standards more uniform and any training changes/additions would occur faster. I'm sure this is completely unfeasable, but I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:04
|
|
|
you'd have people losing their poo poo to states rights but I would love to see one federalized police and court system for the entire country. That way you have unified training and laws and court cases instead of 50 different versions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:07
|
|
|
Branis posted:you'd have people losing their poo poo to states rights but I would love to see one federalized police and court system for the entire country. That way you have unified training and laws and court cases instead of 50 different versions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:09
|
|
|
well if you had one uniform training standard federally you could ensure everybody has received the same training I guess you could put on page one of the manual **** DON'T LITERALLY MURDER PEOPLE ***awesmoe posted:Hm. Not really? Specifically I can't think of any benefits I received while getting my degree which would benefit the police, no. What particular are you thinking of? At least with having a degree a person has a higher likelihood of being exposed to new ideas and people instead of getting all your training and education from the police academy and the military. Branis fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:14
|
|
|
You can tell people not to do something but I wonder how effective that will be when they know half of the nation will donate half a million dollars to them just for being accused of doing it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
awesmoe posted:Hm. Not really? Specifically I can't think of any benefits I received while getting my degree which would benefit the police, no. What particular are you thinking of? nobody cares about your dumb unrelated pet cause about how annoyed you are at people's assumptions about holders of college degrees
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:22
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:How many of the 17,000 police departments in the US are not awful, anyway? Surely it must be SOME of them. San Diego PD has a few officers being investigated for raping multiple women and a married couple that were also cops were running a... meth ring? I think it was? Maybe it was heroin. But anyway, the cops in the northern part of the county in the smaller cities are usually okay. Here was Christopher Hays: http://www.cbs8.com/story/24676478/more-accusers-come-forward-in-sdpd-officer-groping-case I remember there was at least one other, but I can't remember their name now. And here's the married couple that were pushing drugs: http://www.10news.com/news/two-san-diego-cops-arrested-in-drug-bust pathetic little tramp fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Dec 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:25
|
|
|
But now the question is whether they're actually better or just have an easier time covering poo poo up?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
Branis posted:you'd have people losing their poo poo to states rights but I would love to see one federalized police and court system for the entire country. That way you have unified training and laws and court cases instead of 50 different versions. I'd love this, too. Having a federal law enforcement agency with regional offices would be pretty drat awesome. Divide some agencies for Federalizing a lot of poo poo in the US would be awesome, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 02:11
|
|
|
I think it's clear from examples so far that cameras will make some difference, but not that much. It can't do much alone when it's the entire system that's hosed up, and there remains a lack of proper oversight.Astrofig posted:Don't you know it's HAAAAARRRRRDDDD to be a rich white person in white society?! won't someone PLEASE think of the rich white people?!? Don't you understand? If someone points out that you're treated favorably because of your skin color and bank account, it means you're being oppressed by the evil white-hating minority hordes, who are under the command of the space lizard Kenyan king Obummer.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 02:16
|
|
|
I'm optimistic about greater body cam use. They've been shown to reduce abuse complaints (which I think is due to several factors, all of them good), and I think that part of the reason that police get away with awful stuff is because people start out with the expectation that they're doing something good, and find reasons to reinforce that. As evidence of abuse and misconduct becomes easier to see and better documented, that notion will be dispelled, at least for some. Ultimately though, I do think that the federal government is going to have to take a greater role in standardizing procedures and in policing the police.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 02:39
|
|
|
I'm honestly curious whether the prosecutor went in ready to bomb the Garner GJ or whether he figured the officer was hosed regardless, played it straight, but there were just some people on the GJ who will always support the officer no matter what. Maybe they didn't play the video for the GJ?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 02:45
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:Wow, 70 pages. Has anyone discussed some level of federalization of local law enforcement?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 03:11
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:nobody cares about your dumb unrelated pet cause about how annoyed you are at people's assumptions about holders of college degrees why are you still a mod
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 03:11
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:nobody cares about your dumb unrelated pet cause about how annoyed you are at people's assumptions about holders of college degrees what a great post for a bad hell dump thread in 2006
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 04:19
|
|
|
awesmoe posted:Hm. Not really? Specifically I can't think of any benefits I received while getting my degree which would benefit the police, no. What particular are you thinking of? http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/01/are-college-educated-police-safer.html “Officers with only high school educations were the subjects of 75% of all disciplinary actions. Officers with four-year degrees accounted for 11% of such actions.” Quit acting like the idea of educated cops performing better is outlandish, a simple search would show its a completely reasonable suggestion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 04:27
|
|
|
Ann Coulter on CNN right now saying that the NYPD were acting as liberal fascist tax collectors in their conduct towards Eric Garner.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 04:54
|
|
|
ascii genitals posted:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/01/are-college-educated-police-safer.html Okay, that is interesting and it has way more of an effect than what I would have thought. The writer there kind of voices my fears about it being too homogenized but numbers dont lie 
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:15
|
|
|
awesmoe posted:Okay, that is interesting and it has way more of an effect than what I would have thought.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:34
|
|
|
awesmoe posted:Okay, that is interesting and it has way more of an effect than what I would have thought. The writer there kind of voices my fears about it being too homogenized but numbers dont lie There are plenty of ignorant, impulsive idiots with degrees, I'll definitely give you that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:34
|
|
|
I don't think it's necessary or important to require degrees. But police training should have a lot more force training and a whole lot more cultural competency training. Kaal posted:The video meant that at least there was a discussion about the event. Without video evidence this sort of thing usually just ends on the night of the event when the police sergeant writes a vague report and tells his cops to not talk to the media. Yeah, this process isn't going to be quick or pretty. We're going to see a lot of videos of people getting murdered.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:40
|
|
|
What is police training even about, anyway? What is more important for them to spend time on than how to not kill people?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:41
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:What is police training even about, anyway? What is more important for them to spend time on than how to not kill people?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:45
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:What is police training even about, anyway? What is more important for them to spend time on than how to not kill people? Cause you might have to to defend your life and all that. As the brave heroes in the news have been doing. Brave, brave heroes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:47
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:What is police training even about, anyway? What is more important for them to spend time on than how to not kill people?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:51
|
|
|
cams posted:I imagine they'd tell you it's more important to know how to kill someone. Police have a gun. A child can kill someone with a gun. Their training clearly needs to be on how to NOT do it, since apparently the desire is overwhelming sometimes. Or just have the police go without guns most of the time, but that's apparently crazy talk, even though most police will never be in a situation where they even might need to use it. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Dec 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:51
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:A child can kill someone with a gun.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
cams posted:I imagine they'd tell you it's more important to know how to kill someone. Ironically, the better able you are to kill people, the better you are at realizing when you don't need to. That's why I call for much more firearms training and force training in general. And not just any training, we need a model separate from military training and from current police training.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:54
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Ironically, the better able you are to kill people, the better you are at realizing when you don't need to. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Dec 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 05:55
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Well, just off the top of my head, you'd need uniform equipment, department policies and laws for every single jurisdiction in the United States, so yeah, a few implementation challenges. The uniform equipment would be a plus, I think. And yes, the policies and laws would be different in some instances (many state criminal codes are very similar though), but perhaps the specifics on local law could be learned in a 12 month program where the new guys ride with a veteran officer? The National Guard is very similarly equipped, and trained compared to the federal Army and they still manage to serve their local needs and fight our national wars. I think the bonus of having a single standard/code of conduct/training/etc would outweigh the time/cost of figuring it out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:01
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:I think the bonus of having a single standard/code of conduct/training/etc would outweigh the time/cost of figuring it out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:04
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:My karate teacher basically said this as well, but is it really true? I mean it very well may be, but is there data? Karate isn't really data-driven so at the time I wasn't really able to say anything about that philosophy one way or another. Hard to know but yeah, it wasn't a data-driven assertion. I just know that the more training I got, the less threatened I felt in random tense situations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:05
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:The uniform equipment would be a plus, I think. quote:And yes, the policies and laws would be different in some instances (many state criminal codes are very similar though), but perhaps the specifics on local law could be learned in a 12 month program where the new guys ride with a veteran officer? quote:The National Guard is very similarly equipped, and trained compared to the federal Army and they still manage to serve their local needs and fight our national wars. quote:I think the bonus of having a single standard/code of conduct/training/etc would outweigh the time/cost of figuring it out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:15
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Killin' people is cheap as poo poo. Worst case scenario, a couple million settlement that probably won't even come out of the police budget. But if you gently caress up and hurt your back trying to lift a Xerox machine or fix a flat tire on the clock the department is going to be paying your disability for fifty years. The best part is those disability retirements for police (and fire departments) are tax-free or partially tax-free. Much like police abuse lacking oversight there's been a large amount of disability abuse in certain agencies (CHP for instance) and local departments where the majority of retirees are receiving tax-free disability retirements and turning around and double-dipping in to physically demanding jobs. Oversight of the police as a whole in any matter is really complicated.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:16
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Hard to know but yeah, it wasn't a data-driven assertion. I just know that the more training I got, the less threatened I felt in random tense situations.
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:18
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:What's the benefit? Federal law enforcement isn't any better and is even less accountable. Are they shooting/choking to death unarmed black men?
|
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 07:15 |
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:I guess what I'm asking is, is it possible to train people not to panic when dealing with scary black people WITHOUT training them on how to kill better? Ludovico technique marathon of Good Times spacetoaster posted:Are they shooting/choking to death unarmed black men? Sometimes they pay mentally handicapped men to get tattoos. But they also have a solid record of shooting unarmed suspects and unnecessarily escalating situations. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Dec 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 5, 2014 06:24
|
|