SeekOtherCandidate posted:

dogs are cool, if i lived in a place with a backyard instead of an apartment i'd have a dog. going for walks with dogs is also cool

taking dogs into every store, acting like it's your god-given right and calling an employee a dick when they say that a store with lots of uncovered fresh food is maybe not the best of places to take your dog is not cool

foobardog posted:

including humans

Error 404 posted:

I am talking about trained service animals, not the poor animal your trailer trash uncle-loving cousin keeps on a chain to look tough.
They do have a higher animal aggression on average, but that can be ameliorated with training on the part of both owner and animal.

mod sassinator posted:

Some people are allergic to dogs, or some folks (like muslims) have religious issues with them. It's kind of a jerk thing to take one in a supermarket IMHO.

Ardennes posted:

Compared to the amount of pitpulls I have seen, the trained ones have been minimal compared to the super-aggressive ones. You can blame "Oregon trailer-born trash" for the problem but if I had a kid in a store and a pitpull owner rolled in, if I had any sense I would keep them away as far as possible

I don't blame soceer moms for freaking out, if the pitpull rips up your kid, it is going to impact you more than the owner.

effectual posted:

Well the point of my dog (shih tsu) is that it's hypo-allergenic, since the rest of my family is allergic. Also I work in a grocery store myself and love to pet the dogs people bring in. They're cleaner than most other stuff I touch (wash vegetables before you eat them, seriously).

Error 404 posted:

Oh?
How many pitbulls have you seen?
I have no doubt I've seen more, by an order of magnitude.

I've seen dog-fight dogs, dogs that have attacked other animals and people viciously.

you are doing nothing more than parroting the "anti-science" bullshit the news spews out. And by doing so you ensure the continuation of the abuse those dogs suffer.

Ardennes posted:

And what are people suppose to do if the Pitbulls they see on the street are continually aggressive? You can throw "anti-science" as a defense but at the end of the day, the dogs are aggressive enough for people to be fearful and it is largely because of their owners. I know I have learned to be watchful when they are around, and if I had a small dog, I would lift it in case. If you want to say statistically pitpulls are loving animals, that is fine, but in reality, it makes far more sense to protect yourself than trust someone who very likely is out of it or malicious.

To be clear, I agree it isn't the breed necessarily but the owners but I don't trust the owners one inch and trying to use the "science" defense to defend people being lovely is a lost cause. Even if you say they are far in the minority, they are obviously common enough to be a real problem with people.

Error 404 posted:

Nope, but thanks for playing.
I am talking about trained service animals, not the poor animal your trailer trash uncle-loving cousin keeps on a chain to look tough.

Pitbulls as a breed have a lower human aggression than any of the other breeds I mentioned above. They are smart, take very well to training, and tend toward much more even temperaments.

They do have a higher animal aggression on average, but that can be ameliorated with training on the part of both owner and animal.

I work with dogs every loving day, pitbulls aren't even my top 10 for dogs I'm wary of handling.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

In my personal experience, almost all the pit bulls I've met have been very sweet dogs, but I wouldn't characterize them as smart. The demonization they are currently undergoing reminds me of how German shepherds and dobermans (especially dobermans) were viewed in the 1970s.

e: Also, any dog that isn't a service animal should wait outside the grocery store - dogs do not belong in stores.

effectual posted:

Even with the windows down I won't leave my dog outside in super hot weather, and shih tsus get real upset when they're left alone for a while...

CaptainSarcastic posted:

In my personal experience, almost all the pit bulls I've met have been very sweet dogs, but I wouldn't characterize them as smart.

quote:

The demonization they are currently undergoing reminds me of how German shepherds and dobermans (especially dobermans) were viewed in the 1970s.

quote:

e: Also, any dog that isn't a service animal should wait outside the grocery store - dogs do not belong in stores.

Error 404 posted:

Then loving say something if some cheesedick is being reckless or mistreating a dog. Say something to a store employee, call animal control if someone's leaving an animal chained up or off leash.

Crying about bloodthirsty remorseless baby shredders does nothing but make those animals more attractive to the exact type of rear end in a top hat who should never, ever have one.

I can sympathize with your point of view, I really can. I have a 2 year old, and I'd be way more on edge with my kid around a lab, retriever, shepard, chihuahua, rottweiler, sheltie, shiba inu, doberman, etc. Etc. Etc. Than I would around any pit in my nearest shelter.

quote:

THIS, SO loving MUCH.

effectual posted:

Once in whole foods a dick employee there told me to leave since I had my dog with me. I always walk him before going in stores but whatever, so I only go back there a couple times a year for special beers.

Dogs are cool, just have the owner clean up if a mess happens.

CaptainSarcastic posted:

In my personal experience, almost all the pit bulls I've met have been very sweet dogs, but I wouldn't characterize them as smart.

Mrit posted:

Yes, please bark at me because I passed by your cubicle. That's nice. *repeats all day, multiple times*

Ardennes posted:

A bunch of links

Ardennes posted:

http://www.kptv.com/story/26631736/pit-bull-in-custody-after-killing-pomeranian-on-portland-streetcar

http://www.kgw.com/story/news/local/animal/2014/10/06/pit-bull-that-attacked-portland-woman-had-history-of-bites/16820387/

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/11/recent_pit_bull_attacks_in_por.html

http://www.kptv.com/story/22858913/pit-bull-attacking-small-dog-shot-and-killed-by-police

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Pit-Bull-attacks-kills-womans-hearing-ear-dog-238200131.html

http://portland.gotnewswire.com/news/horse-euthanized-after-pit-bull-attack-in-damascus

http://tdn.com/elderly-castle-rock-woman-airlifted-to-hospital-after-dog-attack/article_bb612d90-4c85-11e3-812e-001a4bcf887a.html

Hell, even Beaverton gets on the action.

http://www.kptv.com/story/19424490/only-on-12-man-says-pit-bull-bit-neighbor-to-defend-property

And... Sherwood.

http://www.kptv.com/story/24946426/police-man-stabs-pit-bull-to-death-to-stop-attack

quote:

The media narrative has played a major role in today’s depiction of pit bulls as a dangerous, unpredictable dog. The reality is, most dog bites are not reported nor do their stories make into the headlines giving the community a false sense of security with other breeds while creating an unfair perception of pit bulls.

quote:

A study by the National Canine Research Council reveals biased reporting by the media,its devastating consequences for dogs and the toll it takes on public safety.

Consider how the media reported four incidents that happened between August 18th and August 21st, 2007:

• August 18, 2007 – A Labrador mix attacked a 70-year-old man sending him to the hospitalin critical condition. Police officers arrived at the scene and the dog was shot after charging the officers. This incident was reported in one article and only in the local paper.
  
• August 19, 2007 – A 16-month old child received fatal head and neck injuries after being attacked by a mixed breed dog. This attack was reported two times by the local paper only.
  
• August 20, 2007 – A 6-year-old boy was hospitalized after having his ear torn off and receiving severe bites to the head by a medium-sized mixed breed dog.This attack was reported in one article and only in the local paper.
  
• August 21, 2007 – A 59-year-old woman was attacked in her home by two Pit bulls and was hospitalized with severe injuries. This attack was reported in over two hundred and thirty articles in national and international newspapers, as well as major television news networks, including CNN, MSNBC and FOX.

“Clearly a fatal dog attack by an unremarkable breed is not as newsworthy as a non-fatal attack by a pit bull” says Karen Delise, researcher for the National Canine Research Council.

People routinely cite media coverage as “proof” that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dogs. Costly and ineffective public policy decisions are being made on the basis of such “proof”. While this biased reporting is not only lethal to an entire population of dogs; sensationalized media coverage endangers the public by misleading them about the real factors in canine aggression.

Media reports would have you believe that dog bites are on the rise. The reality is the number of dog bites reported has consistently declined... over the last 20 years.

Source: http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com

Some factors that have been proven to contribute to the likelihood of a dog bite include:

• A chained dog is 2.8 times more likely to bite than an unchained dog.
  
• Canines not spayed or neutered are three times more likely to bite than sterilized ones.
  
• The list of breeds most involved in both bite injuries and fatalities changes from year to year and from one area of the country to another, depending on the popularity of the breed. The Pit Bull Terrier has consistently increased in popularity over the last 20 years thereby statistically increasing the number of reported bite cases for this breed.

quote:

Several interacting factors affect a dog’s propensity to bite, including heredity, sex, early experience, socialization and training, health (medical and behavioral), reproductive status, quality of ownership and supervision, and victim behavior. For example, a study in Denver of medically-attended dog bites in 1991 suggested that male dogs are 6.2 times more likely to bite than female dogs, sexually intact dogs are 2.6 times more likely to bite than neutered dogs, and chained dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite than unchained dogs ¹². Communities have tried to address the dog bite problem by focusing on different factors related to biting behavior.

Error 404 posted:

I CAN POST LINKS TO THINGS TOO!


Source: http://www.hamiltonhumane.com/services/pit-bull-education/hshc-pitbull-information


Emphasis mine. Source: National Canine Research Council, Center for Disease Control and Prevention


And from:
Source:http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf

quote:

Posting a bunch of individual news stories doesn't really say anything unless you compare it to similar searches for other dog breeds. And even then, it doesn't disprove that greater media focus on pitbulls is due to demonization rather than an actual greater number of incidents, as both situations could explain a greater number of stories. The only thing that actually matters is the number of actual total incidents per breed, not the number of media reports for a single breed.

quote:

Australia,[30] Ecuador,[31] Malaysia,[32] New Zealand,[33] the territory of Puerto Rico,[34] Singapore,[35] Venezuela[36] Denmark, France, Germany, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania and Spain[37] have enacted some form of breed-specific legislation on pit bull-type dogs, including American Pit Bull Terriers, ranging from outright bans to restrictions on import and conditions on ownership.[37][38] The state of New South Wales in Australia places restrictions on the breed, including mandatory sterilization.[39][40]
Certain counties and cities in the United States have outright banned ownership of the American Pit Bull Terrier, as well as the province of Ontario in Canada.[37][41] American Pit Bull Terriers are also on a list of four breeds that are banned in the UK.[42]

Error 404 posted:

I didn't realize the "Daily Beast" was a more authoritative source than the loving Humane Society and CDC.

quote:

Hell, you can say Dailybeast is poo poo but they are providing data from the American Kennel Club.

quote:

For a final “score” for each breed, we referred to the American Kennel Club’s most recent precise data on dog registration statistics. The numerical attack score was divided by total registered population to calculate the total score for each breed—a metric of incidents per dog, in essence.

Ardennes posted:

The data was the American Kennel Club, as I actually wrote in my post. You're desperate.

Mrit posted:

You don't like GMO's or dogs. Maybe the problem is you?

Ardennes posted:

The data was the American Kennel Club, as I actually wrote in my post. You're desperate.

Error 404 posted:

Yes, so you said, but I have only your word on it as nothing in your link, or on a cursory google search brings that poo poo up.

What I do see, is copy and paste from loving wikipedia (which is always a dependable and accurate source ) Of several other sites and organizations of unknown provenance talking about Breed Specific Legislation here and across the world (don't even get me fuckin started) and given GMO chat we can all imagine how trustworthy that kind of info actually tends to be.

Here's one of the "sources" footnoted in the bit you quoted, #38 to be specific
http://dogbitelaw.com/dangerous-vicious-dogs/dangerous-and-vicious-dogs.html#meaning
Some ambulance chaser's website. Dude's like Orly Taitz, but with less credibility.

Ardennes posted:

We are at the point of saying GMOs are why Pitbulls can't bite people?

Mrit posted:

I will love anything if it has been genetically modified. Inbred dogs or bananas with ears, I want them all.

Error 404 posted:

What is there to directly refute?

You post unsourced facts and figures in response to my sourced arguments.

literally googling the text you posted only leads to wikipedia (and the sources cited in the text don't actually have fuckall to do with our discussion btw, hth)

Or it leads to the daily beast which claims to have AKC data, and yet I can find no such data from the AKC. Again, googling of the figures you quoted only leads me to various forums and yahoo news discussing the very daily beast link you've provided.

loving hell dude, you are literally arguing with me about poo poo I spend all day every day doing. My career. I loving work with dogs, and I counsel people about pitbulls, educating them and dispelling the loving myths that pop up on the news all the time. Every loving day. So be scared or whatever, but just realize your fear has very little to do with reality.

Error 404 posted:

Ardennes posted:

If anything I am a bit worried you can't produce your own data being a professional. Your sources are about media bias of a story and age/Sex differences not exactly what I need.

If you can give me some sourced data on attacks anywhere comparable, link them.

quote:

Major co-occurrent factors for the 256 DBRFs included absence of an able-bodied person to intervene (n = 223 [87.1%]), incidental or no familiar relationship of victims with dogs (218 [85.2%]), owner failure to neuter dogs (216 [84.4%]), compromised ability of victims to interact appropriately with dogs (198 [77.4%]), dogs kept isolated from regular positive human interactions versus family dogs (195 [76.2%]), owners’ prior mismanagement of dogs (96 [37.5%]), and owners’ history of abuse or neglect of dogs (54 [21.1%]). Four or more of these factors co-occurred in 206 (80.5%) deaths. For 401 dogs described in various media accounts, reported breed differed for 124 (30.9%); for 346 dogs with both media and animal control breed reports, breed differed for 139 (40.2%). Valid breed determination was possible for only 45 (17.6%) DBRFs; 20 breeds, including 2 known mixes, were identified.

quote:

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance — Most DBRFs were characterized by coincident, preventable factors; breed was not one of these. Study results supported previous recommendations for multifactorial approaches, instead of single-factor solutions such as breed-specific legislation, for dog bite prevention.