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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:do these guys have an idea of how basic gameplay is supposed to work yet because i'm getting the impression they don't This is Starbound, not a video game.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:22
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| # ? May 28, 2024 08:34 |
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several months after we uprooted people from their homes and made them move to the UK to keep their jobs, we're still not sure how "attacking" and "moving" play a role in our video game
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Dec 6, 2014 05:23
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Boy do they really just need to release something for people to play that isn't a nightly build.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:25
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I, what, this thing, another added complexity that throws in a new penalty with no practical benefits to the player  (hope your gun isn't full auto! Ooops you held M1 slightly too long lockdown.)Nobody can troll people still being hopeful about the game harder than the devs themselves. Even if I will be taking a look at whatever the hell the "Unstable" update is. Right now I'm hoping for "Tolerable" as a high point. Do the devs test these things without dev cheat codes for any length of time to see how they impact normal gameplay? If so, are they even allowed to say no to these changes? How many of these things are basically Ghost Heat decisions?  vvv Oh, so it's not just me then. Edit two: choice early comment from the official board. quote:"Seems a legit change, i hope it doesn't forces us to stop shooting to let energy regenerate causing interruptions during combat." Did you even read the article, random pubbie? Though some people maintain some sanity quote:Now here's a question... are the NPCs gonna use this too? Because having guards who can fire a machinegun for ten minutes without a break is kinda... Section Z fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 05:28
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It's great because it is a similar issue to how unfun food was, but instead of fixing it in a similar way, they made it suck in a whole new way.Dec 5 Dev Blog posted:The general consensus among the team so far is that getting kicked in the balls feels much better than testicular cancer.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:30
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The developers of a video game making no progress on their game except haphazardly changing mechanics so their game becomes a needlessly complex unfun slog in the name of balance, this reminds me of another game edit: BEATEN
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Dec 6, 2014 05:33
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"should we add a mana bar and make pickaxe swings take up mana? we're not sure, it's only been a year since we started selling this game"
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Dec 6, 2014 05:36
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I can't tell, is everyone trolling, or not? Do we just not play games? This is the same system used in a lot of games, like with jetpacks or guns that overheat. The idea is that you can shoot or boost a bunch, in bursts, you just can't hold the button down forever and expect it to keep firing. The take-away here is that before, if you shot a couple bullets you had to wait a long time to shoot again. Now, your bar recharges faster. You're wrong when you say that makes things less fun.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:38
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Whoever said that guns should just vary based on fire rate, mag size and damage totally nailed it. Make the "energy bar" do some sort of super attack when charged up or some poo poo. "Sit and wait because you didn't  micromanage your energy resource well enough" is dumb and stupid.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:38
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XboxPants posted:I can't tell, is everyone trolling, or not? Do we just not play games? This is the same system used in a lot of games, like with jetpacks or guns that overheat. a) those are actual video games b) it's not fun in those either
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Dec 6, 2014 05:40
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Starbound!
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Dec 6, 2014 05:41
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i haven't played a game in my life actually
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Dec 6, 2014 05:42
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Wow that sounds exactly like mana in terraria except without mana potions and also that locking thing if it empties and also all your movement options in starboard use energy too so now you're even more hosed if you want to shoot a gun and double jump lol.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:43
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:i haven't played a game in my life actually So you own starbound, gone home and metal gear solid 4?
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Dec 6, 2014 05:43
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i had to seek consultation about gone home but it looks like i'm in the clear on that statement
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Dec 6, 2014 05:44
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Dec 6 Dev Blog posted:In an effort to make the tediousness of game mechanics more consistently awful, we decided to revisit how walking and running work. There will now be a stamina bar that goes down as you walk around or move the mouse, and it will deplete faster if you run or do any actions. Replenishing the bar requires eating food, however if you eat too much, your character will need to sit down for a few minutes to poo poo and then take a nap.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:47
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i think its pretty cool that after 3 years of making this game theyre starting to nail down some of the most basic fundamental aspects
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Dec 6, 2014 05:47
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XboxPants posted:I can't tell, is everyone trolling, or not? Do we just not play games? This is the same system used in a lot of games, like with jetpacks or guns that overheat. People can genuinely not like things, you know.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:47
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XboxPants posted:I can't tell, is everyone trolling, or not? Do we just not play games? This is the same system used in a lot of games, like with jetpacks or guns that overheat. I get told "We're working on that to make energy less punishing and less of a slog we swear" in response to my mechanics questions by Norn and then what we get is a brand new lockdown punishment if you double jump too often for the game's liking even if you never use guns. (And in the example video, slowly firing your rifle more than three times is too many times). That's not exactly "Fun", but it does point in which direction the trolls are. EDIT: What's also impressive, is that firing four times empties out your bar, but the first shot only takes two bars on a ten unit bar  Seems to go two bars, three bars, two and a half bars, empty. Is this just a test mockup or how the UI actually will work?Everything that ISN'T combat seems to be shaping up better, but everything that is related to combat or survival just seems to keep tumbling facefirst down the up escalator while the True Fans lap it up. Section Z fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 05:48
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"This looks good to me" -the ouya retard
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Dec 6, 2014 05:50
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"are square blocks good? maybe not, we've retooled it for hexagons" - developer who moved to the UK in order to be allowed to continue receiving a paycheck for working on the game after several years
Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 05:50
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i wonder how long devs can continue their current lifestyles before they need to try and sell people a new game
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Dec 6, 2014 05:57
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Haskell pirate game 
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Dec 6, 2014 06:02
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Section Z posted:I get told "We're working on that to make energy less punishing and less of a slog we swear" in response to my mechanics questions by Norn and then what we get is a brand new lockdown punishment if you double jump too often for the game's liking even if you never use guns. (And in the example video, slowly firing your rifle more than three times is too many times). I guess we just have different ideas of what constitutes fun. Sure, they've added a new skill-based system that punishes players who play poorly, but it also rewards players who pay attention and play skillfully. It's true that the new system can slow you down, but it can speed you up, as well. To me, something like that adds depth to the energy mechanic where before there was none, and actually makes the game more interesting. It seems like one of this game's problems is that it attracted a really wide range. Some of its fans would never touch a game like Super Meat Boy, or even Castlevania. I genuinely hope they add a sandbox mode for people who want to just explore and build for people who find the other elements too much of a slog.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:06
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XboxPants posted:I guess we just have different ideas of what constitutes fun. Sure, they've added a new skill-based system that punishes players who play poorly, but it also rewards players who pay attention and play skillfully. It's true that the new system can slow you down, but it can speed you up, as well. Here are my predictions for my opinions on the Unstable after playing it a while. Section Z in the future posted:My expectations going into the Unstable. That just like the old stable, I would think everything not related to combat or survival is really cool, while anything related to combat and survival needed a lot of work to approach "tolerable", let alone enjoyable except for anybody who thinks the devs can do no wrong or refute any dislike with "You filthy casual, this game should be more like darksouls". (A game that's difficulty was overrated, again, even I could get through and enjoy that.) EDIT: vvv Sure, Test how frequently possible your deadly obstacle courses you hide upgrades inside are, without dev tools and editing cuts. Don't make "Die in three hits" the working-as-intended dev plan for arriving in a new biome tier, to dig up your next tier ore. Including "Dig up your FTL ore on the Cold moon, where you are not allowed to wear proper armor because you need the snow gear to survive the temperature". Don't put a cooldown on food and bandages, when the developer given examples of your new benefits to make up for that cooldown likely won't even help you survive a single extra attack. Play your own game your are making normally, and see how much you enjoy it and changes to it personally without cheat codes to fall back on or just excusing it as "Oh well it's Nightly my progress will just be wiped anyways who cares." If the devs cant manage that, they should just get good and finalize ore drop on death implementation anyways right? They will LOVE reaching the endgame tiers in their own game legitimately or they are just bad at videogames, clearly. Vib Rib posted:Look you can't expect them to actually change things into FUN things when they rehaul them. Obviously he just should have avoided getting into that situation to begin with. Really "Can you honestly say you are having a good time playing to the end of your own game normally" should be some kind of valued measurement in the development process. Even if it was somebody who loved super sloggy things, damnit, they went through that slog without dev tools. Make Tiy facecam livestream a marathon legit playthrough from spawn to end tier TIA. Section Z fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 06:17
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Section Z posted:I guess Godhand isn't as hard and skill required as I thought it was, if even I could get through it and enjoy it. Though I really should get to finishing Super Meatboy one of these days. Sit there and wait even more or get slapped on the wrist isn't "skill" It's "skill" in a game design sense, like in the phrase "game of skill" rather than "game of chance". You may think it's dumb, but the new system inherently gives more agency to the player. That's a skill-based system. I will give you one thing: when you say "Sit there and wait even more or get slapped on the wrist isn't 'skill'", you are absolutely right. I agree with you there. While the player technically still has a decision to make in that situation, it's not an interesting one, so it's not a fun one. What that means is that you have to avoid getting in that situation to begin with. In other words, you have to plan out your combat and movements a little more. This system adds a little bit of strategy to the combat system. You'll run into problems, like needing to recharge so you don't get energy-locked, but then maybe you can try to solve them instead of just giving up? Like, carry a melee in your off-hand. Now you've come up with tactic #1 to fight while recharging. Anyway, as someone who has made dozens of posts complaining about how incredibly hard the random monsters are in this piss-easy game and how they kill you so much and it's so unbalanced, I'm sure you have a lot to teach us all about skill, so feel free to share some more.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:39
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:several months after we uprooted people from their homes and made them move to the UK to keep their jobs, we're still not sure how "attacking" and "moving" play a role in our video game poo poo don't you remember the dungeon video they put out where even the guy demoing it couldn't get through it Like goddamn I think to myself "how can we have a solution as obvious as making reload time/magazine size an inherent weapon trait, and they go with locking it down like this" especially when they're using the same bar you use for techs which will therefore limit your options and playstyles and reduce moments of fun emergent gameplay, like you can't jetpack over someone and strafe them because then you're out of ammo and the bar always recharges at the exact same speed and they advertise this like it's a loving good thing. But then I remember these are the same people who added cool special effects into their unique melee weapon generator and then limited it to only those premade weapons so that 1. that weapon will always be the same every time and 2. all the other generated weapons are guaranteed to be boring and without special abilities or anything interesting. It'd be like if in Borderlands every single fun thing a gun could do was isolated to its own mutually exclusive pool and was the same every single time, and all the other guns ran off of your sprint bar. Section Z posted:Obviously he just should have avoided getting into that situation to begin with. Vib Rib fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 06:52
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If you want a picture of the future, imagine single tile platforming - forever.
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Dec 6, 2014 07:01
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Jackard posted:If you want a picture of the future, imagine single tile platforming - forever. Its skill based
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Dec 6, 2014 08:12
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XboxPants posted:It's "skill" in a game design sense, like in the phrase "game of skill" rather than "game of chance". You may think it's dumb, but the new system inherently gives more agency to the player. That's a skill-based system. I love this guy. Best poo poo in the thread by far.
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Dec 6, 2014 08:15
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I hate everybody who continues to support chucklefish in a really dark and personal sort of way but I still feel sort of bad that that guy is batting for their team.
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Dec 6, 2014 08:24
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Imagine being that one dev that still keeps posting in this thread
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Dec 6, 2014 08:26
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Why would you tack arbitrary "risks" onto a core combat mechanic? It's not even "if you make bad choices you get punished", its literally "if you play the videogame too frequently you get punished". What is the goal for combat? Is it meant to be an actual skill test to obtain meaningful resources, some sort of gear check to control progress or just something that I guess is in other games so we should have it too? It's like they can't design a basic part of the game because "well you have to have a downside to it too".
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Dec 6, 2014 08:40
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Reiley posted:Why would you tack arbitrary "risks" onto a core combat mechanic? It's not even "if you make bad choices you get punished", its literally "if you play the videogame too frequently you get punished". What is the goal for combat? Your evaluation is right; if they did this intentionally, the reason for adding it should be to intentionally slow down combat. That's why other games that have a stamina system for movement/attack have it. Maybe they thought players were rushing in against enemies enough, and not blocking or dodging enough. It definitely still needs some work. You need feedback on the energy bar to know when it's low, and more then just visual, give it sound. Someone else mentioned that it sounds like you won't be able to use more than one potion in close succession, that might need to be changed. There's plenty to change. I just don't understand why this system is so bad for this game when it worked so well in Dark Souls. Not everything should be like Dark Souls, I never thought Starbound needed anything from that game before, but the Stamina system works well. Reiley posted:It's like they can't design a basic part of the game because "well you have to have a downside to it too". Shouldn't they?
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Dec 6, 2014 09:12
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Imagine if Mario had an energy bar and you could jump on three goombas before you have to stop and rest, only the AI was somehow even more basic than that, like limiting how quickly you can stamp out random hopping AI makes the game more challenging. What is the purpose? It's like they're either afraid of letting a player have too much gun combat or they're not sure how their combat is actually supposed to fit in their endless world game.
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Dec 6, 2014 09:20
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i am looking forward to expending energy to Farm Like A Pro
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Dec 6, 2014 09:30
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What if everything you did took like, say, one energy. and the energy bar was increased to 100. then, you could set it so you gained one energy every ten minutes unless you have Starbound Gold subscriber status, which halves the timer
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Dec 6, 2014 09:32
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lmao i remember when i was wondering why cutting down vines w/ the matter manipulator took like 5 minutes when it seems like the simplest goddamn thing and goons loving crawled out of the woodwork to tell me why it needed to be that way
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Dec 6, 2014 09:33
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lol@the idea that starbound has a similar level of combat depth in comparison to Dark Souls to make energy limits a meaningful or fun limitation
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Dec 6, 2014 09:35
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From the way everyone was talking I thought the loving game was gonna have a stamina/energy bar like some free MMO's or mobile games where you have to stop playing for several hours, not just basically a regenerating mana pool.
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Dec 6, 2014 09:36
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