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ActusRhesus posted:I suppose he should get...what? A hug and a cookie? Yes, he loving should. Someone who gets into fist fights probably needs a bit of love and compassion in their life. Everyone should have a loving hug and a cookie
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Dec 5, 2014 23:24
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I' ve actually often wondered that when the "hugs and love" is thrown around sarcastically. Is compassion something we are gonna run out? Why showing love and compassionn even towards mass murderers a bad thing?
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Dec 5, 2014 23:30
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ascii genitals posted:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/01/are-college-educated-police-safer.html That article kinda is bullshit. https://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=722&issue_id=102005 Overall, officers with no college education have less disciplinary actions/officer than individuals with 2 or 4 years of formal education (who actually had higher rates of discipline). It required 6 years (which seems to be exclusively Masters of Arts) to see overall benefits. The only education that was found to be beneficial were specific associate degree programs (applied sciences and science) as well as Masters degree programs (in arts, other programs were statistically insignificant). That benefit is also nowhere near as huge as the dailybeast article seems to infer. Some education programs seem to correlate with an increase (some cases a large one) in disciplinary actions. The study doesnt take into account the type or severity of disciplinary action so you really can't read too much into it. However, to claim it as proof that education means better officers is misleading unless you mean that all police officers should have >6 years of post secondary education. That would be interesting? e: Oddly enough, any education past a high school level resulted in a very marked increase (2-3x) in on duty vehicle collisions. I guess smart people can't drive good? JohnGalt fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 23:30
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ActusRhesus posted:Assault is a mistake?
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Dec 5, 2014 23:30
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Huh, so spending your weekends putting pie tins under your back tires and drifting around abandoned lots actually does have a practical use
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Dec 5, 2014 23:33
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Kind of hard to rally behind these cases when all the interactions are a result of criminal activity on the part of the suspect in the first place. Like robbing a store, jaywalking, and then attacking a cop, or like selling unlawful tobacco products and obstructing justice and resisting arrest. Even the Phoenix one has turned out to be a drug dealer who ran and then fought the cops so they wouldn't find his pistol and stash of oxy and weed. None of these interactions would have occurred in the first place without the initial criminal activity of the person in question. Maybe we need to have a new thread about Criminal Reform, so we can get people to stop committing crimes in the first place or something. "No Crime, No Police!" *Clap Clap*. "No Crime, No Police!" *Clap Clap*.
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Dec 5, 2014 23:39
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A HOT TOPIC posted:Kind of hard to rally behind these cases when all the interactions are a result of criminal activity on the part of the suspect in the first place. Like robbing a store, jaywalking, and then attacking a cop, or like selling unlawful tobacco products and obstructing justice and resisting arrest. Even the Phoenix one has turned out to be a drug dealer who ran and then fought the cops so they wouldn't find his pistol and stash of oxy and weed. None of these interactions would have occurred in the first place without the initial criminal activity of the person in question. Maybe we need to have a new thread about Criminal Reform, so we can get people to stop committing crimes in the first place or something. "No Crime, No Police!" *Clap Clap*. "No Crime, No Police!" *Clap Clap*. I'm kinda hoping you're trying to be funny and I just am not getting it. E: If you are, feel free to ignore this: gently caress you. If you think that jaywalking or selling tobacco products is a crime you should even be bothered for much less get killed over, gently caress you. JohnGalt fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 23:40
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A HOT TOPIC posted:like selling unlawful tobacco products and obstructing justice and resisting arrest You're probably just trolling with that post, but you also don't have any clue what happened in the Garner case, do you? Like...none.
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Dec 5, 2014 23:41
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A HOT TOPIC posted:Kind of hard to rally behind these cases when all the interactions are a result of criminal activity on the part of the suspect in the first place. Funny how it's harder to do that than imagine something other than instant death penalty for "criminal activity".
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Dec 5, 2014 23:45
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Funny how it's harder to do that than imagine something other than instant death penalty for "criminal activity"*. *only applies while minority Sadly, I don't think A HOT TOPIC is trolling, check his post history in this thread. Probably a LEO themselves from the responses. I mean, you know you're a loving police shill when even Arkane is calling you out on your poo poo. ex post facho fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 23:47
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Edit. Nevermind, not worth it. Since I assume A HOT TOPIC is, in fact, trolling. Untagged fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 00:01
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JohnGalt posted:That article kinda is bullshit. This is based on one, not particularly large police department, it'd be a mistake to conclude from that that having a college degree is correlated with more disciplinary actions. I also wonder if police officers without a degree are more likely to be ex-military and how that affects things.
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Dec 6, 2014 00:04
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Despite the popular image, most cops are not ex-military, even id that gets thrown around a lot. Ex-military seem to sit at around 10 percent of personnel, about the rate of any skilled profession.
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Dec 6, 2014 03:37
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/05/rabbis-arrested-eric-garner-protest_n_6276522.html How does the NYPD manage to gently caress up in responding to protests so often? I was just at one in DC for a bit and the cops seemed to be keeping their distance and pretty much just making sure no one got run over.
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Dec 6, 2014 04:30
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Xandu posted:This is based on one, not particularly large police department, it'd be a mistake to conclude from that that having a college degree is correlated with more disciplinary actions. I wholeheartedly agree with you that this study cannot correlate a degree with an increased potential for disciplinary action. I was just pointing out the article posted managed to hugely distort the fact that <15% of the officers in the department in question had postsecondary and made up 25% of the disciplinary action. I really am curious about the car accident while on duty thing though. That is kinda funky. Police related- Im going to one of those die-in things next week. Not sure if I want to lay on the pavement but my cousin is organizing an event and I feel like showing support. This one is happening around a small town police station. Should be mildly entertaining.
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Dec 6, 2014 04:42
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JohnGalt posted:
Just a guess, but a bigger city will have a more aggressive hiring process and require degrees. Bigger city, more traffic, more chances for accidents.
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Dec 6, 2014 07:15
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JohnGalt posted:The study doesnt take into account the type or severity of disciplinary action so you really can't read too much into it. However, to claim it as proof that education means better officers is misleading unless you mean that all police officers should have >6 years of post secondary education. That would be interesting? Since disciplinary action is undertaken by cop supervisors, I'mma guess you can get disciplinary action for not whomping enough minorities in a given week.
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Dec 6, 2014 08:54
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"It's time to get rid of grand juries" https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/12/05/ferguson-eric-garner-show-that-time-get-rid-grand-juries/qGDw7ci78rkrdNNbBpI4XM/story.htmlquote:It is clear to me that the best possible reform that can come from these complex tragedies is not to create special proceedings for police officers — but to get rid of grand juries for everyone. quote:Despite such a one-sided process, grand juries had a valuable purpose in ensuring that a prosecutor was not trumping up charges to serve a personal or political agenda. Historically, they were created to check abuses of power in the decision to initiate a misguided criminal proceeding. quote:Appointing someone with an expectation of an indictment will not make an unfair process less unfair — it simply shifts the mark for whom the odds are stacked. quote:. In most states, the grand jury witness statements can be used in future proceedings, ensuring that an unreliable witness will not be in front of a jury that determines guilt. quote:People do not need to win to feel good about the criminal justice system. To the contrary, the simple call for a trial reveals an intuitive desire to know that the procedures are fair, and the odds — however long — are not stacked. It is time to relegate grand juries to the dustbin of history. lawyer with the monkey name, please step forward. e: reading on actus reus, I suddenly understand you. Not that that exculpates you. "If it's a cop, yeah." e: quote:On direct examination, Decina's physician testified that Decina informed him that prior to the accident "he noticed a jerking of his right hand" and recounted his extensive history of seizures, a consequence of brain damage from an automobile accident at age seven.[10] Decina argued, inter alia, that he had not engaged in criminal conduct because he did not voluntarily strike the school girls.[11] The New York Court of Appeals disagreed and held that since the defendant knew he was susceptible to a seizure at any time without warning and decided to operate a motor vehicle on a public highway anyway, he was guilty of the offense. "The suspsect died of a broken and enlarged heart." gently caress this gay earth # of people I know who have seizures: a bunch # of people I know who have injured other people with their seizures: 0 # of white people prosecuted fot this: gonna guess way lower because WHITENESS On the subject of prosecutors: quote:[N]ormally the presumption of mental capacity is sufficient to prove that he acted consciously and voluntarily and the prosecution need go no further. But, if after considering evidence properly left them by the judge, the jury are left in real doubt whether or not the accused acted in a state of automatism...they should acquit because the necessary mens rea—if indeed the actus reus—has not been proved beyond a reasonable doubt- A Piece of poo poo Which happens really often. In conclusion, suck a dick, cop apologist. repeating fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 09:35
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I think it's pretty apparent, considering that we're one of the last nations on Earth to still use them, that Grand Juries are an outdated concept. But man we can't even pass basic laws if they butt up against someone's confused, ahistorical idea of what a founding father thought about something. The idea of actually constitutionally amending a basic fact of how the judicial branch functions is a pipe dream.
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Dec 6, 2014 13:12
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repeating posted:"It's time to get rid of grand juries" https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/12/05/ferguson-eric-garner-show-that-time-get-rid-grand-juries/qGDw7ci78rkrdNNbBpI4XM/story.html What's up? I actually agree that grand juries are a lovely way to bring charges I prefer a probable cause hearing in front of a judge at the defendant's request and charging by information. But then i also detest the concept of elected prosecutors and judges ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 13:19
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30.5 Days posted:I think it's pretty apparent, considering that we're one of the last nations on Earth to still use them, that Grand Juries are an outdated concept. But man we can't even pass basic laws if they butt up against someone's confused, ahistorical idea of what a founding father thought about something. The idea of actually constitutionally amending a basic fact of how the judicial branch functions is a pipe dream. Grand juries are not required under the constitution some state.constitutions maybe, but not the US. A lot of states.don't use them.
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Dec 6, 2014 13:21
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pathetic little tramp posted:http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/exclusive-texted-union-rep-akai-gurley-lay-dying-article-1.2034219?cid=bitly
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Dec 6, 2014 15:26
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It is really hard to say what to do about police unions because the overton window means the main solution offered for any public institution is to cut it and privatise it. So you either put up with police unions protecting murderers to the hilt or you ban them and have officer's wages and benefits slashed (opening the door to greater corruption) and private corporations who're immune to FOIA requests take over day to day policing. Privatised police would simply be on their phone to the legal department rather than union lawyers.
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Dec 6, 2014 15:33
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Grem posted:Just a guess, but a bigger city will have a more aggressive hiring process and require degrees. Bigger city, more traffic, more chances for accidents. The study is for a single department
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Dec 6, 2014 15:41
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JohnGalt posted:I'm kinda hoping you're trying to be funny and I just am not getting it. Lets not get crazy here, jaywalkers should be shot on sight
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Dec 6, 2014 17:39
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A HOT TOPIC posted:Kind of hard to rally behind these cases when all the interactions are a result of criminal activity on the part of the suspect in the first place. Like robbing a store, jaywalking, and then attacking a cop, or like selling unlawful tobacco products and obstructing justice and resisting arrest. Even the Phoenix one has turned out to be a drug dealer who ran and then fought the cops so they wouldn't find his pistol and stash of oxy and weed. None of these interactions would have occurred in the first place without the initial criminal activity of the person in question. Maybe we need to have a new thread about Criminal Reform, so we can get people to stop committing crimes in the first place or something. "No Crime, No Police!" *Clap Clap*. "No Crime, No Police!" *Clap Clap*.
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Dec 6, 2014 18:59
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anonumos posted:Brown wasn't even a suspect according to testimony of what Ofc. Wilson knew at the time he accosted Brown. Oh god not again.
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Dec 6, 2014 19:07
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ayn rand hand job posted:Oh god not again. Irregardless, we should never blindly accept police officers treating suspects like dangerous escapees. At this point, citizens are being executed on the mere suspicion of crime.
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Dec 6, 2014 19:41
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gently caress whether or not he was guilty of a crime when he was arrested. That's not the loving issue. For all I care the cop was perfectly in his rights to arrest him for selling untaxed cigarettes, and I'm not going to debate whether that's a just law or not because again, that's not the loving issue. The issue is what happened during the arrest: A cop, despite having four other colleagues pinning the suspect down and cuffing him, put the man in a choke hold (which, as I understand it, they're explicitly NOT allowed to do), and despite the victim telling him he couldn't breathe repeatedly choked him for much, much longer than would be necessary even if we were to accept that the initial choke hold was necessary for the arrest (which I do not accept and again, he was EXPLICITLY FORBIDDEN TO DO), which led to the suspect losing consciousness. At that point, no attempt was made to resuscitate the victim or provide any of the medical help necessary for his survival, leading to his death. drat right people are outraged. A system that allows an authority figure to walk free without even an indictment after disregarding the very rules that were instated because they led to unnecessary deaths and in doing so caused the death of a person, all of which documented in a manner which proves, without doubt, that they did so, if loving broken. There's no ambiguity here. At least in the Brown case there are arguments to be made to explain why it unfolded the way it did, even if I don't agree with them, but in this case, holy poo poo. Just... Holy poo poo, it breaks my heart. And to top it all off, the guy who filmed the whole ordeal is being loving prosecuted, of course. What was it John Steward said? Shooting a video being more criminal than actually shooting a black person?
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Dec 6, 2014 20:32
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An unlikely ally.  http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/george-w-bush-hard-understand-eric-garner-decision-article-1.2035386
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Dec 6, 2014 23:46
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Man, when George W. Bush says that "yo, that was not cool", what you did was most likely not cool.
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Dec 6, 2014 23:52
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ActusRhesus posted:Grand juries are not required under the constitution some state.constitutions maybe, but not the US. A lot of states.don't use them. I'm assuming that we're talking about getting rid of it entirely, which means at the federal level also.
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Dec 6, 2014 23:59
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There's also the fact that everything in the constitution is one court case away from getting incorporated against the states.
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Dec 7, 2014 00:01
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Volkerball posted:An unlikely ally. quote:“We Talked about this subject, and yeah -- she just said, you gotta understand that there are a lot of black folks that are incredibly, more and more, distrusting of law enforcement,” Bush said. “Which is a shame, because law enforcement’s job is to protect everybody.  I'm imagining that W is literally a sheltered 12 year old white kid, and Condoleezza is using small words to patiently explain to him why people are mad at the nice policeman. W becomes upset that the policeman hurt somebody.
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Dec 7, 2014 00:06
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anonumos posted:Irregardless, we should never blindly accept police officers treating suspects like dangerous escapees. At this point, citizens are being executed on the mere suspicion of crime. This. I caught some talking head on CNN, I think it was the chief counsel for NYC or something, saying something to this effect, that in whatever committee or task force they studied these issues, one thing they came away with is that they should be more selective on when to use the power of physically arresting people for minor stuff like the loose cigarette thing. Use summons, ticketing, whatever else that doesn't lead to that type of confrontation. Imagine the outrage if some white collar criminal (who was white themselves) was being taken in for some crime resulting in millions of dollars of economic damage and died in the process of being physically taken down. The outrage and shock!
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Dec 7, 2014 01:38
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It would be a really interesting thing to see actually. The media would certainly be outraged and very skilled PR would be devoted to convincing the wider public that it was awful but financial criminals are not popular. I suppose it would end up a Bernie Madoff situation where genuine punishment would occur and the name of the murdering officer would become the byword for abusing power on TV and in films but it wouldn't lead to real reform of the police.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:43
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I can't remember if it's been posted in this thread: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/28/knoxville-cop-fired-immediately-after-photos-show-brutal-choking-of-student/  The case involves some Tennessee frat boy who was apparently complying with police instructions after being detained while cops were breaking up some disturbance at a party and got choked by a cop for no apparent reason. It is interesting how in a case like this, the officer is fired immediately without awaiting a long inquiry.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:52
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Fraternities are a major part of the power structure in this country so he's not just white, he's like, double-white.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:55
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Zwabu posted:I can't remember if it's been posted in this thread: Contrary to the report, he wasn't immediately terminated. A month later he was allowed to retire in order to avoid the long inquiry. 
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Dec 7, 2014 02:20
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ayn rand hand job posted:Contrary to the report, he wasn't immediately terminated. A month later he was allowed to retire in order to avoid the long inquiry. And why in the hell weren't the other two cops involved fired?
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Dec 7, 2014 02:32
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