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Acebuckeye13 posted:Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. I understand that the point of the setting is to ensure that anything can happen, but it'd be nice if they narratively shook things up every once in a while. Big changes would be cool, but even little stuff like a resolution to Sanctus Reach or an update on Yarrick's pursuit of Ghazghull would be nice every other edition or codex or so, just to keep things marginally fresh. They actually resolved Ghazghkull's flight from Armageddon in the latest Ork codex, though it more or less left things the same.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:14
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Dec 7, 2014 02:14
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Also talking about 90s RPGs and metaplot there aren't enough electrons to talk about all the incredibly dumb and ridiculous poo poo that RPG metaplots got up to in the 90s but Shadowrun is maybe the least offensive in that regard because at the very least the game is still fundamentally the same 25+ years on, hasn't thrown out any huge bait-and-switches that radically change players' perception of the game, hasn't changed anything to the point where you can't, I dunno, be a guy who hacks stuff or a guy who does magic stuff. There's plenty of ridiculous poo poo in Shadowrun's metaplot but for the most part it stays on the periphery and lets you get on with playing cyber-D&D just fine. You want truly awful metaplots you want anything old World of Darkness, Deadlands, Brave New World, 7th Sea, L5R, loving SLA Industries, etc.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:15
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serious gaylord posted:It would piss off everyone since it wouldn't be advanced how they'd want it. This. As it stands there a multiple doomsday scenarios that are about to boil over. If the 40k clock actually clicks forward the writers will have to choose which ones take priority. No one will be happy. From memory here are a few of those doomsday scenarios *The golden throne is failing. If it fails navigation and communication through the warp become impossible for the imperium. The human race is scattered across the stars. *The Necrons machine that can blow up all the stars in the galaxy is failing. If it does or if it is hijacked all the stars explode. *The tyranid invasion is just a scouting force. The real Tyranid fleets are on their way. Though by the time they get here their rules will be completely nerfed so probably not a real threat. *Abaddon is preparing his biggest and baddest Black Crusade, it'll gently caress everyone up *The Ork Clans are uniting, they will gently caress everyone up *Something mysterious involving the eldar *The return of the silent kind *massive galaxy wide daemonic incursions And there's more. They can't all co-exist and any attempt to move the narrative forward is likely to be disappointing. It's so much better that it's always one minute to midnight. The galaxy is a coiled spring. Tension is absolute and there is only war.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:19
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Use the Tyranids as a threat to unite the factions so they don't wipe each other out. There, done.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:23
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There're already Orks actively breeding and spreading Tyranids just so they have good fights on demand. They wouldn't give a gently caress if the Tyranids ate everyone else.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:27
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I'm gonna be honest, when the biggest argument against doing something is "it would make a bunch of nerds mad," I can't really see that as a terrible outcome all things considered.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:29
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I would literally bet my life that every single one of you guys asking for poo poo to be moved forward would be posting all  about how they went about it if they actually did that. Y'all would start bitching if GW hired supermodels to suck you off for a week.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:43
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=][=nquisitor is supposedly really, really fun. The rules are available for free and why not use 40k models instead of giant dolly minis. This may be it? http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/ga...0(Part%20I).pdf Technically, anything but the direct-from-GW's-website copy is FILES but, seriously, GW released the rules for free a couple years ago. I did a quick search and couldn't find it. Specialist Games seems to be gone.  Bloodbowl, Battlefleet Gothic, et all.Edit: The site parsed the URL wrong, put the end tag further up Post 9-11 User fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 02:49
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ghetto wormhole posted:I would literally bet my life that every single one of you guys asking for poo poo to be moved forward would be posting all Drill your barrel holes, clean your mold lines.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:50
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Your link be all bugger up.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:50
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"I bet all of you who disagree with me are crybabies  " yeah, great post guyIt's basic storytelling. You build a situation, you bring it to a climax, and then you give it a resolution. GW wants to have its buildup and climax cake but doesn't want to ever resolve anything, which in basically all writing circles, books and resources you could ever find will tell you is a Bad Idea. And it doesn't even have to be resolution of major plot points; simple stuff like Sanctus Reach could have a definite end tomorrow if GW wanted it to and they could move on to another campaign. Multiple games which don't destroy factions or kill off characters at any point ever manage to do this. They even kind of did that with the first Armageddon war, but there they try to have and eat their cake again by just having it re-happen with very little modification. And the reason it's a bad idea to over-delay or even never have a resolution? Because it makes the reader frustrated or even feel cheated and grow tired of it all. Hey, that almost sounds familiar. I hope that helps you understand other people who play the same game that you do in ways that are not yours without the use of qq emotes.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:52
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Cataphract posted:Drill your barrel holes, clean your mold lines. She's got fake tits I don't like her technique I've got a headache I don't like brunettes how could they do this to me
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Dec 7, 2014 02:55
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Rulebook Heavily posted:"I bet all of you who disagree with me are crybabies You are still confusing setting with story.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:05
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I mean, Forge World concludes their campaigns in the IA books all the time. D-99 got eaten, Vraks was re-taken, Orpheus is (Effectively) hosed. None of that has stopped people from playing D-99, renegade lists, or DKK. Hell in my case it's given me more reason to play D-99 against my friend's 'Nids, since I'm a sucker for last stands. It's not like GW has to bring the whole franchise tumbling down, just give some of the side stories (Like Sanctus Reach) some much-needed resolution.Rapey Joe Stalin posted:You are still confusing setting with story. Man, it's almost as if by definition a setting is part of a story! Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 03:08
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Someone actually made it. Complete with air-guitar Dante. 
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Dec 7, 2014 03:10
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Man, it's almost as if by definition a setting is part of a story! Yeah of course a setting is part of a story, but that's not the point. The point is people are buying a setting and getting angry they're not getting the conclusion to a story.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:15
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Rulebook Heavily posted:"I bet all of you who disagree with me are crybabies It's less that I care whether they move the story forward or not and more that there is no possible course of action GW can take for anything they do, including nothing, that will not cause at least 75% of warhams to start whining profusely.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:18
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Climax is resolution. It is when the conflict is resolved. The point of 40K fiction is to give you a climax you can resolve on the table with your toys.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:18
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Acebuckeye13 posted:
Yes. that is true. You know what else is true? That for 25 years it has been explicit that resolution is down to the player. People wanting GW to end the galaxy in which their main game is set want the moon on a stick. Moon. On. A. Stick.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:22
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who loving cares, i suppose you don't see the historical guys complain that the story of WWII doesn't progress past 1945.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:25
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:You are still confusing setting with story. What is the first armageddon war if not a story within a setting? What are any of 40k's various ongoing evolving-over-time setting bits if not a continuous line of storytelling? Not all of them are just additions to a setting. They're story hooks. You probably already know all that and understand it, but defending 40k's honor takes precedence apparently. PeterWeller posted:Climax is resolution. It is when the conflict is resolved. The point of 40K fiction is to give you a climax you can resolve on the table with your toys. Even very basic dramatic theory will tell you that climax isn't even second-to-last when it comes to resolving a story. The climax is just a turning point (or a battle) and the game has those. It then doesn't give a poo poo about falling action or resolution or give you ideas for how to approach those in an ongoing narrative or campaign, not even with the ongoing campaigns that are published on an official basis across multiple sets. "So just forge the narrative" only goes so far. Yes, you can put all the work in and make up your own thing and it will be drat satisfying. What the game is doing is not that, it doesn't give you the tools for it, and it deliberately hooks people with specific plot elements and important battles for specific armies that it then never goes anywhere with, and you don't really get to blame the customer for not making poo poo up hard enough to compensate for some other guy not doing the basic job of storytelling. e: and this bullshit about "it's always been just a setting" is bullshit. The Armageddon war had a beginning, a middle, and an end. Lots of things published by GW followed that structure for years and years. They just stopped doing it. Rulebook Heavily fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 03:27
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ghetto wormhole posted:It's less that I care whether they move the story forward or not and more that there is no possible course of action GW can take for anything they do, including nothing, that will not cause at least 75% of warhams to start whining profusely. Again, that's not really much of a compelling argument in opposition to it, which is what more than one poster here has raised. "Oh but if they changed it then warhams spergs would whine endlessly." You mean like they do now, already, about everything? Did you all forget what game it is you're playing? That genie is already out of the bottle and approximately 300 pounds too big to fit back inside. I say this as someone who legitimately enjoyed the changes they made, for example, to the Necron fluff when a bunch of other people were screaming about how terrible it was that their generic featureless army of deathbots had, ugh, personalities and stuff now. "But they're so cliche!" As opposed to the wildly original and not at all derivative ideas that permeate the rich Warhammer 40K setting. So yeah, I say go nuts with it. If people are going to complain regardless of what you do or don't do then just do whatever, kill the Emperor and make Gulliman grand high potentate for life just to make everybody that complains about Ultramarines gnash their teeth some more, then team up the Tau with the Orks and have them take on a Necron/Blood Angel/Squats alliance. I'd read that book.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:30
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What would the point be of moving the timeline forward?
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Dec 7, 2014 03:33
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:What would the point be of moving the timeline forward? Again, isn't this literally what Warmachine/Hordes does? I honestly don't know because I didn't follow it super-closely but it seemed like that's what they were doing.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:36
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Hell, here's a radical concept: they can take the current "just add more detail to the setting" approach and set an entire conflict 3-400 years in the past. That's the case for Gaunt's Ghosts, a not unsuccessful series set in 40k of multiple novels which move forward while also having their own arcs and even multi-book arcs, now with models you can field on the table. You can tell an entire story, or set an entire campaign, in that kind of time with ease. The partner-company Forge World has done this successfully with much loved results in the Badab War and now with an entire game line. But the official stuff hamstrings itself by insisting on just adding more to 999.M41 all the time.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:36
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:What would the point be of moving the timeline forward? This. 
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Dec 7, 2014 03:38
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Kai Tave posted:Again, isn't this literally what Warmachine/Hordes does? I honestly don't know because I didn't follow it super-closely but it seemed like that's what they were doing. I... don't know either. I know they have different versions of characters throughout their life, but apart from that, I couldn't tell you if it has any other effect on the actual game. Rulebook Heavily posted:Hell, here's a radical concept: they can take the current "just add more detail to the setting" approach and set an entire conflict 3-400 years in the past. That's the case for Gaunt's Ghosts, a not unsuccessful series set in 40k of multiple novels which move forward while also having their own arcs and even multi-book arcs, now with models you can field on the table. You can tell an entire story, or set an entire campaign, in that kind of time with ease. The partner-company Forge World has done this successfully with much loved results in the Badab War and now with an entire game line. Not a bad idea, especially considering how much success Forge World has had by moving back 10,000 years! But more importantly (for me)  65 point Blood Angels Librarians!?
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Dec 7, 2014 03:40
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There is no reason beyond 'I want them to'. There are stories told in the 40k setting but that honestly they're not going to resolve the primary sources of tension in the setting.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:44
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:I... don't know either. I know they have different versions of characters throughout their life, but apart from that, I couldn't tell you if it has any other effect on the actual game. To the best of my knowledge, which is admittedly sketchy, the Warmahordes setting actually advances in time and has with every release so far. This has been their excuse for 1). Promoting warcasters and such to more advanced versions. 2). Introducing new factions into the game. 3). Introducing new units and types of units (more electrical warjacks! Giant warjacks! Probably some other poo poo I don't know about). 4). ??? Either way, it doesn't seem like "having a setting that advances rather than being perpetually on the brink of an increasingly fraught stardate" has been much of an obstacle for them, so I'm not really sure there's anything fundamentally unworkable or unreasonable about it.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:45
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:
...Yeah? I know Blood Angels got the short end of the stick in their last book and it came out before librarians were discounted heavily pretty much across the board. This'll put them in line with the other marines.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:51
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The problem with the timeline for me is that it's not "here's a 10,000 year sandbox" or even a hundred year sandbox. The game evolves and they tend to not add new things throughout the timeline, but at the very end. They keep on adding more and more to the setting, but it's so overloaded into years 40997-40999 that it just kind of collapses. You want to forge the narrative in a game with a Riptide? They first appear in October of 40999. Resolution would be fine, but atleast spread things out a bit, either by adding more that's not at either end of the 10000 year gap or just let it naturally drift a bit into the 42nd millennium. It's not like all the poo poo has to hit the fan on 001.000M42.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:54
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The ideal here is something like the Land Raider Crusader. It was introduced with a specific faction of Space Marines, and then given a few hundreds of years of history which made the port to all the other Space Marines easier. I think the company just burned its fingers on the 13th Black Crusade and overreacted by never entering the kitchen again, that's my 40k story.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:58
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serious gaylord posted:It would piss off everyone since it wouldn't be advanced how they'd want it. This is 110% the correct answer! PeterWeller posted:Climax is resolution. It is when the conflict is resolved. The point of 40K fiction is to give you a climax you can resolve on the table with your toys. Eloquently put sir!
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Dec 7, 2014 04:00
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:I... don't know either. I know they have different versions of characters throughout their life, but apart from that, I couldn't tell you if it has any other effect on the actual game. I think Dark Angels Librarians are 65pts, too.
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Dec 7, 2014 04:02
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I mean, Forge World concludes their campaigns in the IA books all the time. D-99 got eaten, Vraks was re-taken, Orpheus is (Effectively) hosed. None of that has stopped people from playing D-99, renegade lists, or DKK. Hell in my case it's given me more reason to play D-99 against my friend's 'Nids, since I'm a sucker for last stands. It's not like GW has to bring the whole franchise tumbling down, just give some of the side stories (Like Sanctus Reach) some much-needed resolution. The best part about Orpheus is that they take you halfway there and then basically say "Now you, the player, decide the outcome in the campaign!" It was beautiful.
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Dec 7, 2014 04:05
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I'm just wondering what people expect Games Workshop would do with the timeline other than slap a "42nd" sticker over the "41st" in "41st Millennium". They already introduce new units, factions, and characters under the guise of "The galaxy is a huge place".Safety Factor posted:...Yeah? I know Blood Angels got the short end of the stick in their last book and it came out before librarians were discounted heavily pretty much across the board. This'll put them in line with the other marines. WAR FOOT posted:I think Dark Angels Librarians are 65pts, too. Yeah, I kind of overreacted there. I'm just excited they're being brought up to line with the other guys. And they get their unique Psychic Powers again! (Though they were only missing for a few months.)
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Dec 7, 2014 04:09
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Leo Showers posted:who loving cares, i suppose you don't see the historical guys complain that the story of WWII doesn't progress past 1945. That's because those already play Korea and Vietnam and Arab-Israeli war and whatever "Cold War gone hot" scenario looked remotely plausible.
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Dec 7, 2014 04:09
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PeterWeller posted:The point of 40K fiction is to give you a climax New thread title please.
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Dec 7, 2014 04:17
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I just want more campaigns and campaign rules that you don't have to make up yourself. That's all. Campaigns are where its at. What I like about Campaigns is that eventually you do kind of get sort of attached to your characters and squads/ army as it goes through , plus the story of what's going on. Unfortunately there's not a lot out there for advanced campaigning. I mean it's alright but I want a big loving book with squad advancements a territories map etc..
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Dec 7, 2014 04:18
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