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Travic posted:Exactly. Jesus didn't fulfill his end of the bargain (He got a lot of it though), but if you want to worship him that's fine. He was a great guy and did a lot of good. Kyrie just needs to stop smugging so hard about how all Jews are going to burn forever because they won't accept him. Because it says that every Jew is a liar, basically. Hell, the elaboration was worse than 'well, I figure a lot of them probably lie to themselves,' because that's just ignorance perhaps tinged with his presumably high opinion of his own faith. (Of course he'd have a high opinion; he follows it!)
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Dec 7, 2014 07:04
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Kylie is Mel Gibson. Got it. Actually didn't know he was a goon. Can we go back to Warhammer now? That was far less depressing than listening to Mr. Gibson spout hate-speech.
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Dec 7, 2014 07:31
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Nobody deserves to be murdered. Including Christ. That's why it's in the Ten Commandments.Twelve by Pies posted:I think the problem happens here. While the Jewish people expected a messiah I don't think they actively were worshiping him or even the vague concept of him, it was more of a "This guy will show up at some point in time" and they weren't really worried about it until he did. Until then, the big thing with the Jews was really "Follow these laws because you're hosed if you don't." Here is the truth about your Messiah: He already came, and instead of allowing him to usher in a world of peace, you killed him. quote:To be more than fair to Kyrie, Jesus stated that the current leaders of the Jewish religion (the Pharisees in the gospels, although it was almost certainly NOT the Pharisees in actuality) cared more about their legalistic interpretations of the law than what was actually important, such as loving others and helping them. Jesus even said if your righteousness did not exceed those of the scribes and Pharisees you didn't have a shot of getting into Heaven, which more or less states that following the Law was good, but what's in your heart is just as important. The Pharisees ARE the Rabbinic tradition. From the wiki on the Pharisees: "After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism (commonly known as simply Judaism)." And what is in your heart is more important than any law. quote:If you believe that the Jews "lost their way" in caring more about the letter of the Law than what attitude they were to have towards their fellow man, I guess you can kind of say that the current Jewish people are a "splinter" but no, in reality, just no. They are essentially those of the Israelites who associate their values with tribal and legalistic rather than universal or spiritual qualities. Twelve by Pies posted:If the Israelites became Christians and chose Jesus as their king then Jesus wouldn't have been killed and resurrected and then he wouldn't have died for mankind's sins so whoops. It was always known to God, and to Jesus, that they would not accept the Christ. And to the prophets, for that matter! achillesforever6 posted:Well if the Israelites all became Christians, they would probably still acted the way they did and probably piss off the Romans anyway which would cause them to be routed by said Romans No. Jesus opposed rising up against Rome. He taught this in the Sermon on the Mount, with "turn the other cheek", and "if a man press you into service for a mile go with him two," and "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's". He said the tax collectors (who took Roman taxes) should be forgiven. He criticized the warrior zealots as violent and unloving. Jesus was preaching a peaceful approach to Rome, and prophesied that rising up against them would result in destruction, and this is a big part of the reason he was killed. Twelve by Pies posted:I've also heard that some Jews think that the Temple should not be rebuilt until they believe the messiah has come. Not according to the OT, which should have the (non-Christian) Israelites wanting nothing more than to restore Mosaic law immediately and completely throughout the Promised Land. But this is a nice solution for the Jews, who get to live in Israel, always without their Temple (and with that damned Dome on that holy place), and just constantly "wait for the Messiah" until the end of time. Much easier than the dirty business of trying to rid themselves of that eyesore, restore the priesthood from lost records, or for that matter, continuing animal sacrifices, which it has been decided also has to "wait for the Temple." No -- there's nothing worse that could happen for Judaism than the rebuilding of the Temple. quote:On top of that, one of the prophecies of the messiah is that he's supposed to come from King David's lineage, and assuming Jesus was divine and had no earthly father, that would pretty much disqualify him. I think that the writers of the gospels tried to establish Joseph as a descendant of David, but as Joseph was not Jesus' father I'm pretty sure that wouldn't count. Typical legalism!
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Dec 7, 2014 07:31
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Kyrie eleison posted:Here is the truth about your Messiah: He already came, and instead of allowing him to usher in a world of peace, you killed him. quote:The Pharisees ARE the Rabbinic tradition. From the wiki on the Pharisees: "After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism (commonly known as simply Judaism)." This is, again, what I remember from the Bible thread in A/T which I can no longer access due to not having archives. Apparently it was something to do with the Pharisees actually being closer to the common people and the less privileged, while the Sadducees were the aristocrats and the priestly class. The Pharisees were actually more concerned with social justice and love for others, while the Sadducees favored a stricter view of the Law. Point being, framing the Pharisees as the legalistic ones opposing Jesus is almost certainly incorrect, and probably came about from the changes that occurred after the Temple being destroyed. quote:Typical legalism! I don't see how that's legalism. If Joseph isn't Jesus' actual father, Jesus can't be from the line of King David. That's how bloodlines work. If it's some sort of New Age "we're ALL children of King David in SPIRIT" poo poo then fine, but it's still misleading in a prophetic sense. Reminds me of how people skew events to say that Nostradamus or Joseph Smith were totally right about their prophecies being fulfilled.
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Dec 7, 2014 07:49
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Kyrie eleison posted:Nobody deserves to be murdered. Including Christ. That's why it's in the Ten Commandments. One of the main prophecies that the messiah was supposed to fulfill was that he would be killed. Why are you skipping that? You also said earlier in the thread that you would murder a child if God asked you to. So apparently children deserve to be murdered. As well as all the other people I mentioned in my earlier posts that God requires to be killed. You did read those right? You're not skipping around and only responding to certain posts you think you have an answer for are you? Because that would be silly. Kyrie eleison posted:Here is the truth about your Messiah: He already came, and instead of allowing him to usher in a world of peace, you killed him. Again the messiah was prophesied to be betrayed and killed. He had to be killed and resurrected to prove he was the messiah. How are you not getting this? Travic fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 07:56
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Kyrie eleison posted:Here is the truth about your Messiah: He already came, and instead of allowing him to usher in a world of peace, you killed him. "The Jews killed Jesus" is trivially true but meaningless to point out. It's like saying "the Greeks killed Socrates". Socrates was a Greek, his friends and family and government were Greek, so of course Greeks were going to be involved in his death, it's a pointless piece of information to bring up as if it had some wider significance
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Dec 7, 2014 08:06
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Kyrie eleison posted:Nobody deserves to be murdered. Including Christ. That's why it's in the Ten Commandments. quote:The Pharisees ARE the Rabbinic tradition. From the wiki on the Pharisees: "After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism (commonly known as simply Judaism)." And what is in your heart is more important than any law. quote:They are essentially those of the Israelites who associate their values with tribal and legalistic rather than universal or spiritual qualities. quote:It was always known to God, and to Jesus, that they would not accept the Christ. And to the prophets, for that matter! quote:No. Jesus opposed rising up against Rome. He taught this in the Sermon on the Mount, with "turn the other cheek", and "if a man press you into service for a mile go with him two," and "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's". He said the tax collectors (who took Roman taxes) should be forgiven. He criticized the warrior zealots as violent and unloving. Jesus was preaching a peaceful approach to Rome, and prophesied that rising up against them would result in destruction, and this is a big part of the reason he was killed. quote:Not according to the OT, which should have the (non-Christian) Israelites wanting nothing more than to restore Mosaic law immediately and completely throughout the Promised Land. But this is a nice solution for the Jews, who get to live in Israel, always without their Temple (and with that damned Dome on that holy place), and just constantly "wait for the Messiah" until the end of time. Much easier than the dirty business of trying to rid themselves of that eyesore, restore the priesthood from lost records, or for that matter, continuing animal sacrifices, which it has been decided also has to "wait for the Temple." No -- there's nothing worse that could happen for Judaism than the rebuilding of the Temple. quote:Typical legalism! Torka posted:"The Jews killed Jesus" is trivially true but meaningless to point out. It's like saying "the Greeks killed Socrates". Socrates was a Greek, his friends and family and government were Greek, so of course Greeks were going to be involved in his death, it's a pointless piece of information to bring up as if it had some wider significance Nessus fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 08:18
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Kyrie is really boring at this. I wish Victor would come back.
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Dec 7, 2014 09:03
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Vaall posted:Kyrie is really boring at this. I wish Victor would come back. At least Kyrie is just trolling in bad faith/seriously damaged. Victor sincerely believed in the crazy he was slinging. To the point that he defended rape and genocide in the bible, and also somehow thought that incredibly awful things happening in the undeveloped world (parasites eating kids eyes?) was required by god because reasons. I'm not sure how much of what Kyrie is saying is true and how much is trolling, but there seems to be a huge amount of sexual self-loathing that comes through. If it's real I can fully relate and sincerely hope he gets help before he commits self-harm.
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Dec 7, 2014 09:40
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Yeah Kyrie is just becoming more and more obvious troll bait. He is so clearly caustic that only the world's least critically aware person could actually think what he thinks.
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Dec 7, 2014 10:48
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Nessus posted:What if what's in my heart is not in accord with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church? What's in your heart is more important than any law. Oh except OUR laws, in which case the law is more important than what's in your heart.
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Dec 7, 2014 11:47
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Knifegrab posted:Yeah Kyrie is just becoming more and more obvious troll bait. He is so clearly caustic that only the world's least critically aware person could actually think what he thinks. Yeah he's getting ridiculous. He's just acting like the world's most toxic anti-semite.
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Dec 7, 2014 15:52
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I've tried to stay out of this thread, but this is pretty offensive:Kyrie eleison posted:Here is the truth about your Messiah: He already came, and instead of allowing him to usher in a world of peace, you killed him. Kyrie, you are severely out of step with the Church that you claim to follow. quote:True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ. NOSTRA AETATE, as proclaimed by His Holiness POPE PAUL VI on October 28, 1965 QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 16:08
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Vaall posted:Kyrie is really boring at this. I wish Victor would come back. Darkwater was better.
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Dec 7, 2014 16:36
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ThirdPartyView posted:Darkwater was better. Kyrie: do you take a position one way or another on burning books?
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Dec 7, 2014 16:38
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I for one endorse the burning of certain books. Specifically the Necronomicon and anything written by an Elder God. Their works are maddeningly cliche, derivative and lack sufficient spell-checking because their editors keep eating their own eyeballs.
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Dec 7, 2014 17:38
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Travic posted:Yeah he's getting ridiculous. He's just acting like the world's most toxic anti-semite. I get the idea that he's back here because GBS/Games ran him out on a rail over being GG basement trash. Shocking I know. EDIT: Also, what decent catholic would post this: Kyrie eleison posted:an sjw, a catholic priest, and a rapist walks into a bar. the bartender says: hey sam! rkajdi fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 17:38
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rkajdi posted:I get the idea that he's back here because GBS/Games ran him out on a rail over being GG basement trash. Shocking I know. Well hell, what do you know. Poe's Law strikes again.
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Dec 7, 2014 18:09
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rkajdi posted:I get the idea that he's back here because GBS/Games ran him out on a rail over being GG basement trash. Shocking I know. I'm angriest over him using 'an' improperly.
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Dec 7, 2014 18:32
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ThirdPartyView posted:Darkwater was better. Now there's a name that brings back memories.
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Dec 7, 2014 19:53
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Which one wanted to have Europe run by a pre-Vatican II catholic theocracy?
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Dec 7, 2014 19:58
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Nintendo Kid posted:Which one wanted to have Europe run by a pre-Vatican II catholic theocracy? I remember that thread, I think it was last year, but I can't remember who made it. If I wasn't on my phone Id look for it. I think it was called "If you think about it living in a theocracy wouldn't be so bad".
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Dec 7, 2014 20:01
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Torka posted:"The Jews killed Jesus" is trivially true but meaningless to point out. Not even close. "The New Testament claims the Jews were behind the killing of Jesus" is true. This would be the New Testament that has Jesus crucified (the standard punishment for sedition) rather than stoned (for blasphemy). And Jesus ordered killed by Pontius Pilate with some faff that bears no resemblance to the historical Pilate. And behaviour from the Sanhedrin that is approximately as historically accurate as the average episode of Xena: Warrior Princess. "The Romans crucified Jesus" is trivially true (assuming you think the Mythicists are silly, as I do). "The Bible blames the Jews for actions actually carried out by the Romans" is also trivially true. "The Jews killed Jesus"? IMO raw anti-Semitism to allow the Romans to wash their hands and to make Christianity more acceptable to Romans.
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Dec 7, 2014 20:14
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Nintendo Kid posted:Which one wanted to have Europe run by a pre-Vatican II catholic theocracy? Both Darkwater and Olin refused to accept the legitimacy of Vatican II, the latter styling any popes after it as "Nopes," which still makes me giggle to say out loud. Who What Now posted:I remember that thread, I think it was last year, but I can't remember who made it. If I wasn't on my phone Id look for it. I think it was called "If you think about it living in a theocracy wouldn't be so bad". That was Smoking Crow's thread. Odd how theocrats tend to gravitate towards female anime avatars.
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Dec 7, 2014 21:15
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Odd how theocrats tend to gravitate towards female anime avatars. Because Japan emphasizes submissive and sexually objectified females?
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Dec 8, 2014 01:02
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Captain_Maclaine posted:That was Smoking Crow's thread. Its especially odd & ironic how he has a thread in TBB titled "Quit Being a loving Child and Read Some Real Literature" as well . 
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Dec 8, 2014 01:13
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People are more receptive to criticism when you set it within the framework of their own assumptions
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Dec 8, 2014 01:14
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Pearls before swine.
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Dec 8, 2014 03:40
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A genuine question: How do you justify the fact that tribes, such as the ancient Native Americans, or precursors to Australian aborigines, who lived in complete isolating and could not possibly have heard of Jesus within a generation of his coming, are doomed to spend eternity in Hell? Do you feel that God has an absolute moral code, and that makes it okay for them to suffer, or is there some other explanation?
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Dec 8, 2014 03:41
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Kyrie eleison posted:Pearls before swine. The fool thinks himself wise.
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Dec 8, 2014 03:44
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Kyrie eleison posted:Pearls before swine. Did you buy those pearls with nazi gold?
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Dec 8, 2014 03:45
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Kyrie eleison posted:Pearls before swine. That's a pretty funny comic. Also, in context. Matthew 7: 1-6: 1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. 6 Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.
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Dec 8, 2014 03:53
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Kyrie eleison posted:Pearls before swine. Kyrie (on the off chance you'll actually see this), I'm going to be perfectly serious for a moment, and then in all likelihood go back to making jokes and taking cheap shots as opportunity allows: what was it you actually expected out of this thread? You blanket-proscribed most of the avenues for genuine discussion or debate, rather insultingly by the by which is why we all got rude as quick as we did, and those few that remained you further limited by refusing to accept even for the sake of discussion that other religious or areligious points of view could be legitimately held. Seriously, was this supposed to be the "Kyrie witnesses to the unwashed masses and they, weepingly, come over into the light" thread?
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Dec 8, 2014 03:54
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J.A.B.C. posted:That's a pretty funny comic. The sheer lack of self-awareness necessary to post this at somebody else to condemn them. A favorite tactic by your lot, who reject the man's moral authority in the first place. Do you think Christ would be angry with me for this thread? (Don't answer; of course you do.)
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Dec 8, 2014 04:06
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Kyrie eleison posted:The sheer lack of self-awareness necessary to post this at somebody else to condemn them. A favorite tactic by your lot, who reject the man's moral authority in the first place. Do you think Jesus was mad at Hitler for what he did? (Don't answer; of course you don't.)
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Dec 8, 2014 04:14
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Kyrie (on the off chance you'll actually see this), I'm going to be perfectly serious for a moment, and then in all likelihood go back to making jokes and taking cheap shots as opportunity allows: what was it you actually expected out of this thread? You blanket-proscribed most of the avenues for genuine discussion or debate, rather insultingly by the by which is why we all got rude as quick as we did, and those few that remained you further limited by refusing to accept even for the sake of discussion that other religious or areligious points of view could be legitimately held. Related: Jesus posted:And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. Again: After Jesus was born, Mary had sex. Learn to accept this. 
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Dec 8, 2014 04:16
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fade5 posted:Agreed. I like discussing religion, and I normally try to keep the discussion semi-serious and not insult the religions of other others. In a more serious thread I would have loved to discuss the whole perma-virgin Mary thing (it's actually a rather interesting belief to me, given how much evidence is stacked against it), but instead I just had fun needling Kyrie about about how "Jesus had four brothers and (at least) two sisters" sorta screws up the perma-virgin Mary thing. I will not accept it, because it is wrong and against the traditional teaching. We have already discussed this fully. Go needle someone else. You are allowed to re-marry if your spouse dies.
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Dec 8, 2014 04:18
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Kyrie eleison posted:The sheer lack of self-awareness necessary to post this at somebody else to condemn them. A favorite tactic by your lot, who reject the man's moral authority in the first place. Clearly, you haven't been spending time doing anything of good value, you've just been spreading your sickening interpretation of religion. Want to make Jesus happy, go out and do good things for your fellow man instead of trying to scare them by telling them that god will make them suffer forever. Kyrie eleison posted:I will not accept it, because it is wrong and against the traditional teaching. We have already discussed this fully. Go needle someone else. Or in Mary's case to be 'entrusted' to someone else because despite being the mother of God she was still very much someone else's property. Caros fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 04:22
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Honestly could you even name one single thing you've done in this thread that you think Jesus would be proud of?
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Dec 8, 2014 04:24
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Kyrie eleison posted:I will not accept it, because it is wrong and against the traditional teaching. We have already discussed this fully. Go needle someone else. No, people tried to discuss this fully, you just stated "The Church says she was a virgin therefore she is" and used bible fanfiction to desperately try and support it.
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Dec 8, 2014 04:27
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