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Space Whale posted:As I said to twodot, do you read twitter? I've seen people apologize and get it far worse. On principle reconciliation is something I'd prefer, but if it comes down to "a little more poo poo now and less later, or more over time," I'd rather get it over with. I don't read twitter but I have participated in local activist groups IRL and nobody ever took me aside and was like "You know Jim over there? He said 'gook' five years ago, gently caress that guy!" Maybe you should take a deep breath, push yourself away from the computer, and go meet some folks outside.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:24
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SedanChair posted:I'm busy doing the Lord's work.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:24
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Space Whale posted:As I said to twodot, do you read twitter? I've seen people apologize and get it far worse. On principle reconciliation is something I'd prefer, but if it comes down to "a little more poo poo now and less later, or more over time," I'd rather get it over with. You really don't owe anyone an apology for writing the word gook and this entire dumb derail because someone used a word that isn't approved of is basically what the article in the OP was on about in the first place. There is no  big enough to encompass this thread.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:24
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Who What Now posted:OK, but what do I have to go by, the thing that matters and people know about, or the sole exception in my experience? What would you go by, experience or "well, maybe this time...?"
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Dec 8, 2014 21:25
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He doesn't owe anyone anything. He's clearly an idiot or trolling.goatse.cx posted:Exaggerated but people really haven't raised any convincing defense of privilege theory so far itt. Why does it need defending?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:26
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Xibanya posted:I don't read twitter but I have participated in local activist groups IRL and nobody ever took me aside and was like "You know Jim over there? He said 'gook' five years ago, gently caress that guy!" If I didn't live in the deep south I'd do that like a year ago bub. wateroverfire posted:You really don't owe anyone an apology for writing the word gook and this entire dumb derail because someone used a word that isn't approved of is basically what the article in the OP was on about in the first place. There is no AND THE WINNER GOES TO WATEROVERFIRE!!!! Rent-A-Cop posted:Someone with some wealth privilege should really give you the above as big red text because it's one of the most nakedly narcissistic things I've ever seen anyone post. Want to set up a round robin so we can take turns?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:26
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Space Whale posted:I'm sorry to any Koreans who are offended. You really seem to be hunting for something to feed your persecution complex so this could be a match made in heaven.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:26
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Nevvy Z posted:Why does it need defending? Because some people might not just take things as revealed truth ?
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Dec 8, 2014 21:27
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Who What Now posted:You really seem to be hunting for something to feed your persecution complex so this could be a match made in heaven. As long as Sedan Chair is with me to dress up like a windmill and tilt on my while I tilt on him dressed like a windmill I'll never have to worry about passing the time. Also our horses are ATVs with windmill rims.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:27
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Someone with some wealth privilege should really give you the above as big red text because it's one of the most nakedly narcissistic things I've ever seen anyone post. I should double down on it just to make you further taken aback.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:28
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Space Whale posted:If I didn't live in the deep south I'd do that like a year ago bub. I live in Texas, champ. When I was at one of the save texas schools rallies awhile back I met people who had come in from all over the state, even dumb little towns that you wouldn't suspect would have any kind of activist presence. Look and you will find.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:28
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Space Whale posted:OK, but what do I have to go by, the thing that matters and people know about, or the sole exception in my experience? What would you go by, experience or "well, maybe this time...?" I'm not sure which is which because Twitter doesn't matter in the slightest and I doubt it's your sole experience of online communities so maybe you should just go with the adult thing of "admitting I hosed up because I hosed up".
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Dec 8, 2014 21:29
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Who What Now posted:I'm not sure which is which because Twitter doesn't matter in the slightest and I doubt it's your sole experience of online communities so maybe you should just go with the adult thing of "admitting I hosed up because I hosed up". Or maybe you shouldn't be such a prissy bitch about language you don't approve of? I mean, there are lots of options here.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:31
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goatse.cx posted:Exaggerated but people really haven't raised any convincing defense of privilege theory so far itt. Well the concept of privilege is fairly sound as a description of the invisible societal/insitutional racism and how it affects people of different background in different ways, but it doesn't offer a lot of explanation or solutions in and of itself and falls short of being a theory because of that. Where people go really wrong with it is using it to try explain the concepts to people who deny the existence or extent of bigotry. You can't talk about privilege meaningfully to someone who doesn't already accept the concept, and that's the flaw. You'll be more effective by simply talking about bigotry and how it exists. Of course, most of the time folks arguing against privilege theory are people who deny the existence of institutional bigotry. So while there's definitely major problems from a sociology standpoint with privilege, it's almost never what is actually being argued.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:31
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Who What Now posted:I'm not sure which is which because Twitter doesn't matter in the slightest and I doubt it's your sole experience of online communities so maybe you should just go with the adult thing of "admitting I hosed up because I hosed up". Well, yeah. I also wasted years in offsite LFs before and after SA got sick of their poo poo and killed that subforum. Which is why I'm so sick of the bullshit now. Funny how that works out isn't it? Again, the "mistake" being "this could offend Koreans" is one thing. Acting like I need to kowtow to people who look for poo poo to point and fuss over who aren't even the possible target of a "hurtful word" is kinda bs though. I certainly don't owe them any apologies. Now, if I triggered a war crime victim? I would actually regret that.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:31
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wateroverfire posted:Or maybe you shouldn't be such a prissy bitch about language you don't approve of? I mean, there are lots of options here. Prissy is problematic because it's a gendered insult. Bitch is problematic because it's a gendered insult. Also bad is problematic because a long long time ago in the iron age something something it meant sissy pedo??? We don't say "bad" anymore. lol.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:33
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Space Whale posted:Well, yeah. I also wasted years in offsite LFs before and after SA got sick of their poo poo and killed that subforum. Which is why I'm so sick of the bullshit now. gently caress them you won't do what they tell you. 
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Dec 8, 2014 21:33
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Bro you are terrified of people criticizing you online. You lack, wait for it now, strength of character.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:33
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wateroverfire posted:Or maybe you shouldn't be such a prissy bitch about language you don't approve of? I mean, there are lots of options here. "Why won't you just let me say gook, friend of the family, spic, and wop without calling me racist?!"- 
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Dec 8, 2014 21:33
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Space Whale posted:Prissy is problematic because it's a gendered insult. I apologize to anyone who decided to be offended and I hope one day they will sack up so we can all be friends.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:34
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First they came for the slurs and I did nothing...
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Dec 8, 2014 21:35
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Space Whale posted:Again, the "mistake" being "this could offend Koreans" is one thing. Acting like I need to kowtow to people who look for poo poo to point and fuss over who aren't even the possible target of a "hurtful word" is kinda bs though. I certainly don't owe them any apologies.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:35
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Who What Now posted:"Why won't you just let me say gook, friend of the family, spic, and wop without calling me racist?!"- Stop feeding the 'Leftists persecute me' troll. He thinks the 'friend of the family' is only offensive if a black person hears it. There's no fixing him.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:36
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SedanChair posted:I should double down on it just to make you further taken aback. That's the tagline to the movie I'm making about this thread. Original idea, do not steal.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:36
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Zeitgueist posted:gently caress them you won't do what they tell you. Yo, think about this for a second. Step away from your side and think critically. I know you can. Do I really owe forum warriors apologies and contrition because of some tone deafness with my "buncha dumbfucks" being a little too colorful? Does bad word saying really matter that much, or is it just a power play in specific contexts to get a little bit of power and influence over others with that self righteousness? Remember when growing up someone would go "Don't take the lord's name in vain!" or "don't use cuss/curse words!" What exactly is this except "do as I say and I'll make you"? A Buttery Pastry posted:You know, I'm pretty sure they actually prefer you doing this. Just admit you were wrong and give them blue balls. Then maybe we can get back to my post (going off another ignored post) about the amoral nature of privilege theory, and whether it might serve as a way to make white people "race conscious". I already did apologize to any offended Koreans. I should not have said it. I know now that I shouldn't have said it. I still don't like SedanChair though.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:37
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Space Whale posted:Acting like I need to kowtow to people who look for poo poo to point and fuss over who aren't even the possible target of a "hurtful word" is kinda bs though. Did someone say this? All you need to do is stop defending it. If someone brings it up again, just say "yes, I already said that was hosed up and I regret it," and leave it at that. I agreed with a lot of what you said earlier in this thread, but you really don't want to stop digging.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:39
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Space Whale posted:Yo, think about this for a second. Step away from your side and think critically. I know you can. You don't owe anybody on a forum anything and I'll be there first to agree to that, but when you find yourself saying "I don't need to apologize for saying racist slurs"you're being the rear end in a top hat, and people are going to call out. Nobody needs you to apologize, they're making GBS threads on you because you're being stupid, and apparently racist. Disclaimer: I didn't read all your posts because you're just filling pages at this point.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:39
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Nevvy Z posted:Stop feeding the 'Leftists persecute me' troll. He thinks the 'friend of the family' is only offensive if a black person hears it. There's no fixing him. So, about that point I was trying to make that people are more motivated to hunt for poo poo to go witch hunting about and draw oh so many conclusions based on someone's willingness to "apologize" to people enforcing the do not say word list? You're literally calling me a lost cause, lost to the isms, for have all of the ists, and I am sure to become a Republican even? Because I don't feel like I owe apologies to forum warriors? Nobody here is even Korean. You're literally saying I'm equal to Rush Limbaugh because I'm sick of the "Drop everything and be Really Sorry™ game?"
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Dec 8, 2014 21:40
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hepatizon posted:Did someone say this? All you need to do is stop defending it. If someone brings it up again, just say "yes, I already said that was hosed up and I regret it," and leave it at that. I'm not defending the g-word, I'm criticizing the concept that I owe a drat thing to people hunting for slips to point out and attack people over.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:40
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Zeitgueist posted:You don't owe anybody on a forum anything and I'll be there first to agree to that, but when you find yourself saying "I don't need to apologize for saying racist slurs"you're being the rear end in a top hat, and people are going to call out. Well shucks.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:40
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Space Whale posted:I already did apologize to any offended Koreans. I should not have said it. I know now that I shouldn't have said it. Space Whale posted:I still don't like SedanChair though.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:41
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Zeitgueist posted:Well the concept of privilege is fairly sound as a description of the invisible societal/insitutional racism and how it affects people of different background in different ways, but it doesn't offer a lot of explanation or solutions in and of itself and falls short of being a theory because of that. Agreed on most points. Though I'd like to point out some of the most vociferous critics of privilege theory are marxists/hard left.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:42
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I was speaking more generally. Why should I play along with "you slipped up, ooooohhhhhhhhhh, better be sorry!" people? I really don't like busybodies and the time wasting inquisitions they start are something I want to make a point of illustrating and pushing back against!
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Dec 8, 2014 21:43
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Space Whale posted:So, about that point I was trying to make that people are more motivated to hunt for poo poo to go witch hunting about and draw oh so many conclusions based on someone's willingness to "apologize" to people enforcing the do not say word list? It's not that you feel you don't owe anyone apologies, it's that you don't think you acted like a dick. If you think slurs are cool and not stupid and lovely, hey, you're a dick. Nobody is going to agree with with your "I play by nobodies rules, language police" crap because it's silly drivel that means you either are actively racist or so insulated from it you don't give a gently caress if you say racist poo poo. That means you're a shithead.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:43
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goatse.cx posted:Agreed on most points. Though I'd like to point out some of the most vociferous critics of privilege theory are marxists/hard left. Except that skunk guy thinks you're really a liberal in sheep's clothing (it's bad when the southpark guys hate liberals but not him you see) if you criticize that.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:44
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You know, I'm pretty sure they actually prefer you doing this. Just admit you were wrong and give them blue balls. Then maybe we can get back to my post (going off another ignored post) about the amoral nature of privilege theory, and whether it might serve as a way to make white people "race conscious". I think it's pretty ineffective IMO. After all my privilege checking I come to the following realizations: I have an awesome family that has spread out all over, and can help me with stuff if need be. I have lots of successful friends. I got a good education that I have put to use. Luckily, lots of horrible things that could have happened didn't happen to me. Etc. Some people can't say the same. Therefore...what, exactly? Am I supposed to feel bad about that? Because tbh it feels pretty good. I got a little mood boost just thinking about it actually.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:44
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Space Whale posted:So, about that point I was trying to make that people are more motivated to hunt for poo poo to go witch hunting about and draw oh so many conclusions based on someone's willingness to "apologize" to people enforcing the do not say word list? Who exactly is going to be witch-hunting you? People on SA? Probably not since I don't see you posting a shitload in other threads outside of this one. But if it was eating you that much, pay tenbux and get a new account. Are you worried about people on Twitter? Unless you're already internet-famous I doubt anyone even cares about your post history/tweet history whatever. And if you were internet famous then probably enough people would think you had something worthwhile to say and you should probably chill out. Are you worried about people IRL? Pretty sure they're not going to vet your internet history. I'm being serious here when I say I think you need like a 20 min break from this thread to have a beer and think about other stuff.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:44
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goatse.cx posted:Agreed on most points. Though I'd like to point out some of the most vociferous critics of privilege theory are marxists/hard left. Yes and that's where I'm coming from. They're not critical of the concepts that it tries to address, they're critical of it as a stand-alone theory and it's use in the political sphere.
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Dec 8, 2014 21:45
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wateroverfire posted:I think it's pretty ineffective IMO. you are bad at this
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Dec 8, 2014 21:45
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Zeitgueist posted:It's not that you feel you don't owe anyone apologies, it's that you don't think you acted like a dick. If you think slurs are cool and not stupid and lovely, hey, you're a dick. Is this kind of vociferous tone policing productive or just something we haven't critically analyzed yet? I'm serious. In general I support thicker skins, not outrage culture and "I'm so triggered/literally shaking" culture which has made people less able to actually do anything Zeitgueist posted:Nobody is going to agree with with your "I play by nobodies rules, language police" crap because it's silly drivel that means you either are actively racist or so insulated from it you don't give a gently caress if you say racist poo poo. That means you're a shithead. Well, I thought the point of privilege was that white people are too insulated from racism to 'get it'???
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Dec 8, 2014 21:45
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