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Space Whale, you don't need to apologize to us. You need to apologize to yourself and to your mama.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:15
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wateroverfire posted:Well ok let's stipulate that no one can speak to the lived experiences of anyone else because, you know, you didn't actually live that. What follows from that? Don't we have to find common ground to organize? People can already find common ground to organize, the people who are trying to tell others how they lived their lives aren't the ones you're trying to reach.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:16
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Zeitgueist posted:The fuss is because folks DO want to tell people that they know how it is to live a person's live because they've lived 1/5 of it's aspects. Also they tend to buy into just world theory and if they have privilege maybe they aren't actually better than poor black people.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:16
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Can everyone please fill out their respective hurt feelings report and shut the gently caress up? Everyone who tries force this poo poo needs to go tweet w/ Justine.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:17
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GUYS GUYS not allowing cool rebel types to drop racial slurs is why Occupy failed, wrap it revolutionailures
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Dec 8, 2014 22:17
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Zeitgueist posted:People can already find common ground to organize, the people who are trying to tell others how they lived their lives aren't the ones you're trying to reach. But dude activists have endless words for how other people have lived their lives, how they should live their lives, and etc.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:20
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Zeitgueist posted:GUYS GUYS not allowing cool rebel types to drop racial slurs is why Occupy failed, wrap it revolutionailures Deal with it you big baby. He did say something offensive. That does not mean you get to spend 5 pages talking about how outraged you are about it. Job Truniht fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 22:21
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Nevvy Z posted:Also they tend to buy into just world theory and if they have privilege maybe they aren't actually better than poor black people. Hey man that's a lot to assume about people you don't know anything about.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:22
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Job Truniht posted:Deal with it you big baby. He did daybsomething offensive. That does not mean you get to spend 5 pages talking about how outraged you are about it. Don't tell me what to do, I'm not going to do what you tell me! 
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Dec 8, 2014 22:23
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Job Truniht posted:Deal with it you big baby. He did say something offensive. That does not mean you get to spend 5 pages talking about how outraged you are about it. No one is outraged, you giant pussy. We are, however, happily mocking him. And I'm content to do that until he wises up.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:25
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Also, shout out to defender of the white race WORST FORUMS GUY who would just love to be participating in this discussion, but unfortunately is on probation so is limited to sending me a PM consisting of the word "human being" repeated 500 times
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Dec 8, 2014 22:27
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Dear loving god is this still going on? Here have this old-rear end article that I just remembered coming up in one of the old -ism threads, it might be wrong or outdated or whatever but at least it'll be something to talk about that isn't stubborn internet guy. "Exiting the Vampire Castle" https://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=11299
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Dec 8, 2014 22:28
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SedanChair posted:Also, shout out to defender of the white race WORST FORUMS GUY who would just love to be participating in this discussion, but unfortunately is on probation so is limited to sending me a PM consisting of the word "human being" repeated 500 times And here I thought I was the only one who got a nice PM from him.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:31
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SedanChair posted:Also, shout out to defender of the white race WORST FORUMS GUY who would just love to be participating in this discussion, but unfortunately is on probation so is limited to sending me a PM consisting of the word "human being" repeated 500 times Hey don't police his language, this is why leftists fail. 
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Dec 8, 2014 22:32
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Who What Now posted:W-we were just trolling him, guys! The premise of offensive language is that someone has to be offended by it. You guys are playing standins for the offended party. That's equally laughable. And no one who has bothered to read it would interpret all of that as otherwise.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:37
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Xibanya posted:And here I thought I was the only one who got a nice PM from him. Now I'm disappointed that I didn't.  Job Truniht posted:P-p-please stop bullying the racist for saying the racist things! No.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:39
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Job Truniht posted:The premise of offensive language is that someone has to be offended by it. You guys are playing standins for the offended party. That's equally laughable. And no one who has bothered to read it would interpret all of that as otherwise. Wow it's as equally laughable to notice racism as it is to propagate it? Trey?
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Dec 8, 2014 22:40
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Job Truniht posted:The premise of offensive language is that someone has to be offended by it. You guys are playing standins for the offended party. That's equally laughable. And no one who has bothered to read it would interpret all of that as otherwise. Nope wrong. Unless you're the kind of person who complains about spics unless you see a Hispanic person in the room. I hope that if I'm not in the room and someone says "all women are lying hos" my male friends tell that person that poo poo ain't cool.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:42
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It's equally laughable to derail a thread and take things entirely out of context. I have a better plan to deal with people who say that poo poo: don't call them leftists. Ignore them. Marginalized them.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:42
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Who What Now posted:looking like a retard.  Who What Now posted:you giant pussy  You really showed that offensive-slur-user and his supporters...
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Dec 8, 2014 22:45
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^^^^^^^^ Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't have used those words. ______ Job Truniht posted:It's equally laughable to derail a thread and take things entirely out of context. I have a better plan to deal with people who say that poo poo: don't call them leftists. Ignore them. Marginalized them. Nah, I'm going to shame them and still marginalize them.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:45
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murphyslaw posted:Dear loving god is this still going on? It's actually better than McGill's essay, as it describes the problem more clearly. A chosen excerpt: quote:The first configuration is what I came to call the Vampires’ Castle. The Vampires’ Castle specialises in propagating guilt. It is driven by a priest’s desire to excommunicate and condemn, an academic-pedant’s desire to be the first to be seen to spot a mistake, and a hipster’s desire to be one of the in-crowd. The danger in attacking the Vampires’ Castle is that it can look as if – and it will do everything it can to reinforce this thought – that one is also attacking the struggles against racism, sexism, heterosexism. But, far from being the only legitimate expression of such struggles, the Vampires’ Castle is best understood as a bourgeois-liberal perversion and appropriation of the energy of these movements. The Vampires’ Castle was born the moment when the struggle not to be defined by identitarian categories became the quest to have ‘identities’ recognised by a bourgeois big Other. Edit: quote:The fourth law of the Vampires’ Castle is: essentialize. While fluidity of identity, pluarity and multiplicity are always claimed on behalf of the VC members – partly to cover up their own invariably wealthy, privileged or bourgeois-assimilationist background – the enemy is always to be essentialized. Since the desires animating the VC are in large part priests’ desires to excommunicate and condemn, there has to be a strong distinction between Good and Evil, with the latter essentialized. Notice the tactics. X has made a remark/ has behaved in a particular way – these remarks/ this behaviour might be construed as transphobic/ sexist etc. So far, OK. But it’s the next move which is the kicker. X then becomes defined as a transphobe/ sexist etc. Their whole identity becomes defined by one ill-judged remark or behavioural slip. Once the VC has mustered its witch-hunt, the victim (often from a working class background, and not schooled in the passive aggressive etiquette of the bourgeoisie) can reliably be goaded into losing their temper, further securing their position as pariah/ latest to be consumed in feeding frenzy. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 22:46
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Guys I was going to join your revolutionary movement but I can't get behind you making fun of a guy who loses his mind when you tell him to not use 'gook'. I guess I'm off to join the Tea Party, you really blew this one.
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Dec 8, 2014 22:59
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A Buttery Pastry posted:"Then John checked all his privilege, and he saw that it was good." Whoa, awareness is a far cry from "giving up privileges", I'm not even sure how you got to the point of equating them at all. Educating people who are already inclined to be politically allied to marginalized groups is kind of the central drive of privilege theory. It's not about convincing the general public, though I think more people encountering and engaging with the idea is always for the better. The rare individual who is going to end up as an active white nationalist responds very poorly to learning about privilege, because their entire emotional being is poised against the concept to begin with. A big flaming stink posted:To what end is all this being done? Framed this way it sounds like the whole point, to put it in vulgar terms, is to make the disempowered individual feel good about themselves. It's being done so that institutions capable of pushing for change and progress learn to take into account factors they usually don't by encountering perspectives that they're usually ignorant of. The big picture is pretty simple in terms of contribution to modern left-liberal activism.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:01
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Dec 8, 2014 23:02
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Gantolandon posted:It's actually better than McGill's essay, as it describes the problem more clearly.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:03
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Who What Now posted:^^^^^^^^ NOW I HAVE YOU
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Dec 8, 2014 23:12
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Well I guess whatever uses this thread had have run their course but I guess that on some level this clusterfuck of a discussion is kind of instructive. wateroverfire posted:D&D is I think the best remedy for leftist tendencies. Like, I would show someone this thread and say "See, these are your allies" and they'd be scared off for years. Do you really think any political forum would look much better? The internet doesn't exactly bring out the best in most people when it comes to debates like this one and the right wingers and liberals in D&D don't exactly distinguish themselves in terms of ideas or personal conduct.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:15
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Zeitgueist posted:GUYS GUYS not allowing cool rebel types to drop racial slurs is why Occupy failed, wrap it revolutionailures *Forcing contrition instead of dropping it.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:20
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SedanChair posted:Also, shout out to defender of the white race WORST FORUMS GUY who would just love to be participating in this discussion, but unfortunately is on probation so is limited to sending me a PM consisting of the word "human being" repeated 500 times lol what That's pretty low-brow and neither challenging to execute nor funny. If you're going to troll at least think about your audience. Bonus points if you prove a point in execution.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:21
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Zeitgueist posted:Guys I was going to join your revolutionary movement but I can't get behind you making fun of a guy who loses his mind when you tell him to not use 'gook'. I really lost my mind trolling a bunch of predictable pansies for 5 pages, you sure showed and told me I tell ya w-hat. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 8, 2014 23:22
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I think the idea that inner circle politics in a lot of the more hopeless internet "leftist" movements is similar to a priesthood/cult is interesting. Sniffing around for sinful behavior/thoughts, arresting the sinner, and then demanding expiation through confession and contrition (mostly as a power play to affirm your own purity and enhance/maintain your status relative to other members of the priesthood I gather) in ways that are hard to differentiate from abuse, seems to be a recurring theme. An actual sin doesn't even need to have been committed; the suspicion of transgression is enough to set off a frenzy. People are permanently on edge and watching each other like hawks for the slightest hint of deviation from the group ideology, and if too much time passes without a purge, some new thing will suddenly become taboo, allowing for a brand new purge. You will always have cliques and scenes that devour themselves, that are open to manipulation by abusive, controlling personalities. Don't take this as me saying that these things happen only on Tumblr, Twitter, or in an anarchist commune. Not by a long shot. These weaknesses and flaws are driven by impulses that are much more pronounced and damaging as a whole, I would say, in groups aligned with the right, than in those on the left. But it's something I notice a lot these days, and it can't just be reactionary whinging bringing it to my attention.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:24
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Sharkie posted:So you're saying white privilege doesn't exist or what exactly? Do you seriously believe that black people or gay people or women should set aside the issues that concern exclusively them in order to recognize that really, it's about class, and concerns about racism/homophobia are atomizing? I hope you don't, but that's what this post seems to be suggesting. Once a person has sustainable material independence from the larger oppressive superstructure, it becomes easier to escape oppression. You won't have to stay trapped in a controlling relationship or in a backwards place if you have somewhere else to go, if you have a couch to crash on, if you can move out and build somewhere new. This could be why countries with a high per capita gdp and low gini coefficient have more tolerant attitudes on gender and homosexuality. quote:http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-5907.2008.00352.x/abstract If, say, I had been abused a lot when I was younger and that left me a shattered person, is bringing that up every five seconds in response to everyone else's conversation going to help the conversation and make any change? No, because I know it's not about me. Without them telling you, you can be sure that everyone is going through problems of their own. There is no "fix all" cure for them. All we can do is that which eases the pain for everybody and gives them control over their problems. To work on the social, you have to leave the personal at the door. (also if I have problems, I leave that to professionals, not internet people who are not professionals and who prescribe an ideology as a holistic cure. I can talk to internet people about it but it is not a substitute. there are free clinics to go to and resources you can utilize for low income folks) Rodatose fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 23:24
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Helsing posted:Well I guess whatever uses this thread had have run their course but I guess that on some level this clusterfuck of a discussion is kind of instructive. Yeah, discussing politics online is kind of like democracy: it's godfuckingawful, and better than all the alternatives (i.e. boring and alienating your friends and/or never discussing politics).
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Dec 8, 2014 23:25
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Space Whale posted:I really lost my mind trolling a bunch of predictable pansies for 5 pages, you sure showed and told me I tell ya w-hat. Oh snap we're at puppetmaster  already?You're calling others predictable?
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Dec 8, 2014 23:26
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Ormi posted:Whoa, awareness is a far cry from "giving up privileges", I'm not even sure how you got to the point of equating them at all. Ormi posted:Expecting people to "give up" their privileges at all when confronted with them is exactly the opposite of what privilege theory prescribes, actually. Helsing posted:right wingers and liberals in D&D don't exactly distinguish themselves in terms of ideas or personal conduct.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:26
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Space Whale posted:lol what I know right? I kept thinking he was on a higher level from me. e: 90% of PMs I receive are "you're white"  or some variant of "human being" 500 times
woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 23:26
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Job Truniht posted:It's equally laughable to derail a thread and take things entirely out of context. I have a better plan to deal with people who say that poo poo: don't call them leftists. Ignore them. Marginalized them. Who is worse the derailleur or the derailed? Yes I know this isn't about bikes I guess it's arguable whether or not there's justification in "as demonstrated with this offensive act, y'all focus too much on scoring points to be productive and are generally hard to put up with" justifying being offensive, but the fact that it's easy as poo poo to make people go off like this and keep it going stands. It only ended when I actually had work to do. But yes I am the one trolled by them you see. Anyway, if you were genuinely offended when I said g__k, I'm genuinely sorry. If you just look for poo poo to go accusing over, please reflect on how easy it is to derail you and what it says about your community that anyone can do this so easily. For gently caress's sake. murphyslaw posted:I think the idea that inner circle politics in a lot of the more hopeless internet "leftist" movements is similar to a priesthood/cult is interesting. Sniffing around for sinful behavior/thoughts, arresting the sinner, and then demanding expiation through confession and contrition (mostly as a power play to affirm your own purity and enhance/maintain your status relative to other members of the priesthood I gather) in ways that are hard to differentiate from abuse, seems to be a recurring theme. Remember when I said privilege and original sin are the same thing, then someone goldmined the thread with the single post "God actually offers forgiveness?"  Seriously, thanks for getting this out of my performance. You made it worth it. Now I need to go check my privileges a thousand times so if I self identify as left wing or socialist saying gook on something awful doesn't make stigmata appear on my forehead in the form of "CASEY JONES" in big red text while an Elephant somehow scoots over it like a dog scraping it's butt.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:27
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SedanChair posted:I know right? I kept thinking he was on a higher level from me. Hey all is fair in love, war, and trolling, but "human being x someBigNumber" PMs are just lame, yo. smdh
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Dec 8, 2014 23:27
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Mortley posted:Yeah, discussing politics online is kind of like democracy: it's godfuckingawful, and better than all the alternatives (i.e. boring and alienating your friends and/or never discussing politics). Literally the best thing that could happen to the left is if it's organization became autocratic in a sense that someone representative of its core goal and forced everyone either to fall in line kick out the non believers. Banning Tumblr and privilege theory in general from leftist social discourse would also help.cehere we're going doesn't require distinction about race or gender.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:28
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