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Here's a question-if Spacebase wasn't worth the money they were putting into it, why on earth would they continue development? People are complaining about alleged mismanagement of the company and Broken Age, but there is no greater mismanagement than the fallacy of putting good money after bad. Does it suck for the people who bought Spacebase expecting more? Yeah, but those people did take a risk in buying a game that was still in Alpha. Does it make Double Fine look like dicks? Sure. But you can't seriously fault a company, especially one that is having constant financial issues, for deciding to cut a project that isn't making enough money to justify its existence. It's a ridiculous double-standard, and makes the argument that "Double Fine doesn't know how to manage money!" completely laughable. Edit: I honestly think at this point that Double Fine's problem is that they're too open, because most people don't understand business or video games and will criticize them without taking the time to seriously consider the realities of either. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Dec 6, 2014 |
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Dec 6, 2014 05:39
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Here's a question-if Spacebase wasn't worth the money they were putting into it, why on earth would they continue development? People are complaining about alleged mismanagement of the company and Broken Age, but there is no greater mismanagement than the fallacy of putting good money after bad. Does it suck for the people who bought Spacebase expecting more? Yeah, but those people did take a risk in buying a game that was still in Alpha. Does it make Double Fine look like dicks? Sure. But you can't seriously fault a company, especially one that is having constant financial issues, for deciding to cut a project that isn't making enough money to justify its existence. It's a ridiculous double-standard, and makes the argument that "Double Fine doesn't know how to manage money!" completely laughable. Yeah I would have also cancelled development on Spacebase when you find out it wasn't really making that much money. That's just business. Being too open has been kinda bad for Double Fine I'll agree since a lot of people just don't understand that if they kept working on the game it would just keep burning money at Double Fine. But no gently caress you for not finishing the game. Everyone should have known the moment it was early access. This is why I won't buy massive chalice until its out of early access.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:51
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I don't fault them for ceasing development. I will grant Doublefine's detractors that keeping it the same price in the steam store is a misstep. Just looks bad.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:38
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The whole Spacebase thing was pretty lovely. The game wasn't making enough money? Yeah, because it wasn't done! It's really pretty sick how the industry is shifting the risk of development to its consumers without any of the accordant benefits.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:22
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midwat posted:The whole Spacebase thing was pretty lovely. 10 years ago: man this game would have been great if it didn't get rushed out the door for Christmas 2004, gently caress publishers Today: self-published game cancelled because it didn't sell well enough a year from release
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Dec 7, 2014 01:33
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Here's a question-if Spacebase wasn't worth the money they were putting into it, why on earth would they continue development? People are complaining about alleged mismanagement of the company and Broken Age, but there is no greater mismanagement than the fallacy of putting good money after bad. Does it suck for the people who bought Spacebase expecting more? Yeah, but those people did take a risk in buying a game that was still in Alpha. Does it make Double Fine look like dicks? Sure. But you can't seriously fault a company, especially one that is having constant financial issues, for deciding to cut a project that isn't making enough money to justify its existence. It's a ridiculous double-standard, and makes the argument that "Double Fine doesn't know how to manage money!" completely laughable. spacebase wasn't worth the money because the game didn't have almost any of the loving features its early access, so for them to say it wasn't worth the money is ridiculous because the whole point of early access isn't to make a game that is profitable then, its to get the game in the hands of other people, test it, and faciliate development of the features for the future then when all the features are in the game, maybe it'll loving be profitable Double Fine, along with other groups in early access, just take the money, half rear end work on a game, then call it 1.0 when they're out of money I wouldn't even really be posting in here criticising double fine if Spacebase were still on Steam. If they had cancelled it and made it so it couldn't be purchased anymore of Steam that would have been pretty decent of them. But intead, there is just a huge loving sucker trap on Steam designed to give them money.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:35
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Luigi Thirty posted:10 years ago: man this game would have been great if it didn't get rushed out the door for Christmas 2004, gently caress publishers corrected Today: self-published game cancelled because it didn't sell well enough in the alpha version of their game without most of the features lol, early access
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Dec 7, 2014 01:36
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Eonwe posted:corrected That was what I meant, yes
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Dec 7, 2014 01:37
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oh I know! I just wanted to continue being a sarcastic dick about double fine mostly I do think its funny that everyone hated on publishers so much, and now its becoming clear that the only way to keep devs from snorting coke all day instead of making their game is to have a publisher who will cut them off if all they do all day is snort coke and not make games
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Dec 7, 2014 01:38
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Eonwe posted:spacebase wasn't worth the money because the game didn't have almost any of the loving features Early Access golden boy Elite Dangerous axed like all the features that people were begging for including offline singleplayer (which was in the beta) because they finally blew through all their VC money so they have to release a beta as 1.0 and now people are flocking back to Star Citizen now that it has an executive producer (ex-Blizzard lead game designer) and has been showing progress again lol
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Dec 7, 2014 01:39
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midwat posted:The whole Spacebase thing was pretty lovely. I missed this post. This is a good post.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:42
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I love how peeps itt are like "well, what do you expect, have them continue development on the game????" when literally nobody has suggested that the issue is that they're profiting from an explicitly unfinished game and haven't provided any monetary recourse for consumers that have been rightfully ripped off and no, giving them another half-finished game they likely didn't want that's explicitly worth a quarter of the price of spacebase doesn't loving cut it it's astounding how anti-consumer people in this thread are, like saying double fine should (or should be forced, either by valve, steam in general, or via a class-action lawsuit) issue refunds to people who bought spacebase is some inconceivable liberal bleeding heart idea as opposed to something that happens all the time in every industry every time a corporation misrepresents a product that they're selling ed: it's p loving sad when ubisoft does a better job than you at compensating consumers who bought a misrepresented product, p loving sad NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 01:42
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Luigi Thirty posted:Early Access golden boy Elite Dangerous axed like all the features that people were begging for including offline singleplayer (which was in the beta) because they finally blew through all their VC money so they have to release a beta as 1.0 and now people are flocking back to Star Citizen now that it has an executive producer (ex-Blizzard lead game designer) and has been showing progress again lol At least they are continuing to work on the game and release expansions. At this point I still have more trust in ED than I do anything that Double Fine works on. Don't get me wrong, I will still buy Double Fine games. Just only after they are complete.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:43
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DF-9 was a case of Double Fine wanting to try a risk-free development cycle. They borrowed money under terms that can only be described as usury and sold the game as early access hoping the money would last long enough to get it fleshed out. When the loan was paid back the money wasn't coming in very fast and they had to make the decision to put their own money into it and with everything else that's been going on they decided not to do that which is a sound business decision I guess. But still, gently caress 'em.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:46
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Numinous posted:Don't get me wrong, I will still buy Double Fine games. Just only after they are complete. I feel this is the correct position. I typically abide by the "buy complete games only" rule, though I suspended it for DF's Kickstarter because of their good reputation. Many people, I suspect, did the same for Spacebase, and paid the price.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:49
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I get that Early Access is supposed to be risky, but not delivering on so many of the features and just being like 'welp, game is done, we feel good about where its at and are gonna keep it on steam' is completely hosedmidwat posted:I feel this is the correct position. I didn't buy Spacebase since I follow that rule too, but I was tempted because prior to this I thought pretty well of DF. Too bad, they burnt through all their nerd goodwill I guess they are generating more goodwill with that day of the tentacle re-release, but dont you worry they'll gently caress up again soon and burn through that goodwill as well
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Dec 7, 2014 01:49
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yeah nobody's ever sold an unfinished game at full price before totally unprecedented publishers would never allow that
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Dec 7, 2014 02:08
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Ernie Muppari posted:yeah nobody's ever sold an unfinished game at full price before is this just a random post or are you insinuating someone claimed that
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Dec 7, 2014 02:13
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Eonwe posted:is this just a random post or are you insinuating someone claimed that Man I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of you and others posting stuff like: Eonwe posted:I do think its funny that everyone hated on publishers so much, and now its becoming clear that the only way to keep devs from snorting coke all day instead of making their game is to have a publisher who will cut them off if all they do all day is snort coke and not make games Other than that you somehow think publishers don't do the same poo poo DF and others've done lately. Like, I'm not saying anyone doesn't get to be mad at DF or one of the other devs that's currently making GBS threads the bed, but it's hella' funny to see nerds acting like things in the videoagm industry are appreciably different now than they were even back in the 90s.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:35
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try not jumping straight to an extreme and making dumb assumptions next time you try to "get something" out of a post I guess
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Dec 7, 2014 02:40
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Eonwe posted:try not jumping straight to an extreme and making dumb assumptions next time you try to "get something" out of a post I guess oh snape
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Dec 7, 2014 02:40
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You are hilarious, Eonwe. "Jumping straight to an extreme" has been your motto here, not anyone else's.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:46
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nah it hasnt, just calling it like I see it
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Dec 7, 2014 02:50
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Please stop paying for alpha versions of games. I feel like this poo poo started with Minecraft but there was probably a different patient zero.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:15
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notZaar posted:Please stop paying for alpha versions of games. I feel like this poo poo started with Minecraft but there was probably a different patient zero. Minecraft is awesome though 
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Dec 7, 2014 03:18
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Eonwe posted:nah it hasnt, just calling it like I see it The mating call of the angry dumbass.
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Dec 7, 2014 09:37
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The biggest criticism of Double Fine and Space Base is that Valve released a new set of rules for early access several of which the unritten addition of this means YOU Double Fine was almost impossible to ignore. As for Broken Age I personally didn't think I had unreasonable expectations as to how far 2,5 million would go and expected a well crafted 4-6 hour experience. Essentially a $15-$20 game. I also expected, perhaps mistakenly, that a professional development studio with a known and fixed budget would be able to ballpark within +/- 20% expected costs for a given scope. Particularly as the first few documentary episodes dealt with them figuring out how much it cost to make a "room". Instead what happened was that Tim Schafer decided to make The Game He Always Wanted To Make and the scope went completely bananas - you could see the skepticism multiple times on the faces of the people in the episodes. First the date changed from 2012 to Q4 2013, which was fine because the scope of the game did change, but then they announced the game was being split in two and the first part was coming out Q1 2014 and that part 2 would be Q2 2014, then they announced part 2 would be Q4 2014 and then a bunch of poo poo happened and they announced Q1 2015. That is a lot of delays and reflects badly on the management of the studio as a whole, or at least their ability to communicate effectively with their stakeholders because god drat they must have burnt through the majority of the good will they had. I have backed quite a few Kickstarters multiple of which were delayed, sometimes by quite a long time. Wasteland 2 was delayed and I would still back it knowing what I know now, the same with Divinity and, based on the beta, the same with Pillars of Eternity. Would I back the "Double Fine Adventure" knowing what I know now? No, and that is damning.
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Dec 7, 2014 14:22
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Tim Schafer is a cool and funny guy who I like a lot but I think he probably needs someone to rein him in sometimes.
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Dec 7, 2014 15:46
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Pwnstar posted:Tim Schafer is a cool and funny guy who I like a lot but I think he probably needs someone to rein him in sometimes. He literally has increased my respect of game publishing houses a lot. Some people just can't manage their way out of a paper bag, even if they are "design geniuses".
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Dec 7, 2014 16:22
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adhuin posted:He literally has increased my respect of game publishing houses a lot. Some people just can't manage their way out of a paper bag, even if they are "design geniuses". Design is god! 
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Dec 7, 2014 18:32
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Demiurge4 posted:Minecraft is awesome though It's not my cup of tea but I can see the appeal. Regardless it's proven to be the exception to the rule.
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Dec 8, 2014 03:49
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:The biggest criticism of Double Fine and Space Base is that Valve released a new set of rules for early access several of which the unritten addition of this means YOU Double Fine was almost impossible to ignore. I think this all stems not from double fine canceling development but from being dishonest about the whole thing. It was never mentioned anywhere that spacebase was dependent on sales to keep going, they insisted that they weren't abandoning the project right after they did, and rather than just saying that they couldn't keep going Tim Schafer decided to write a big almost smug sounded post about how the game was going 1.0! It's hard to imagine them getting this much heat for all of this if they had just been upfront but they way they did it just made it seem like they were trying to trick people into thinking they didn't cancel the game.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:27
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Did the Space Base guy really got fired? I guess that would explain why the things they promised, ie final bug fixes and source code, are nowhere to be found.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:30
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He was part of the team that got laid off last month.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:35
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Demiurge4 posted:But still, gently caress 'em. No empty posting. No never not believing. Saoshyant posted:Did the Space Base guy really got fired? I guess that would explain why the things they promised, ie final bug fixes and source code, are nowhere to be found. But this is ~definitely~ the only promise they've broken and everything else was just a mistake, right.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:37
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Saoshyant posted:Did the Space Base guy really got fired? I guess that would explain why the things they promised, ie final bug fixes and source code, are nowhere to be found. The 1.0 update notes says that the 'source code' they're talking about is the unencrypted .lua files that are included in the game directory. Is that not there? I haven't checked. quote:The game’s Lua source code is now available in the game’s install directory on all platforms. Usually this will be in your Steam directory, under SteamApps\common\SpacebaseDF9\Data\Scripts. If you own the game you can modify these files and distribute your modifications to other users as you like. A large portion of Spacebase is written in Lua, so there are relatively few limits on what you can do with this.
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Dec 9, 2014 00:39
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From what I heard, the code was going to be cleaned up and an announcement made when the full thing was available. If the LUA code is already available and is just not properly cleaned that should be fine, too. Can't imagine anyone doing much with the game, though -- was there even a community around it? And by community I mean people who actually played and enjoyed whatever was there and not the part-time haters on the Internet.choobs posted:He was part of the team that got laid off last month. I do wish we would know more about this particular story. Were the layoffs to the team working on the unannounced game a good excuse to get rid of him, too? Was he working on said game? Is the whole fiasco truly his fault? Who knows. We don't for sure. Saoshyant fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 00:49
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Saoshyant posted:From what I heard, the code was going to be cleaned up and an announcement made when the full thing was available. If the LUA code is already available and is just not properly cleaned that should be fine, too. Can't imagine anyone doing much with the game, though -- was there even a community around it? And by community I mean people who actually played and enjoyed whatever was there and not the part-time haters on the Internet. I haven't been paying particular attention, but there are still people posting on the DF forums for Spacebase that aren't just crying for blood. So it seems like there's still a small, dedicated community. Not sure how clean the code is. They published it (I think) with 1.0, then did six bug-fix released that presumably would update that code. Last bug-fix release is mid-November. Maybe DF gave them a year of funding to build interest, when it didn't happen, they lost funding and were planning on continuing to do bug fixes, and then when developers were let go (because a deal with a publisher fell through), they couldn't. Or maybe that publisher deal fell through, DF needed to tighten it's belt, and the game was canned, and the devs basically did bug fixes to salvage what they had. Don't know.
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Dec 9, 2014 01:09
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adhuin posted:He literally has increased my respect of game publishing houses a lot. Some people just can't manage their way out of a paper bag, even if they are "design geniuses".
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Dec 9, 2014 01:17
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Quest For Glory II posted:Does this mean I can finally poo poo on Obsidian and their janky-rear end games No because Dungeon Siege 3, while not great as a game, wasn't buggy and the QA was done by Obsidian.
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Dec 9, 2014 01:40
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