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QuoProQuid posted:I have a question of my own: Is the Ministry of Magic a part of the British government or its own separate entity? Who determines who serves as the Minister of Magic? Do wizards recognize the queen? Is there any indication in the series as to how the magical government is intended to function? The Ministry of Magic isn't part of the British government as such. We see Fudge talking to the Prime Minister at the start of Book 6 and it's basically a case where they function as their own government but have ties. The position is elected. They mention this a few times.
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Dec 1, 2014 05:08
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I wonder if there are members of wizard parliament? Is the Minister of Magic the only elected position? I'm way too loving curious about this now.
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Dec 1, 2014 05:48
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ImpAtom posted:The Ministry of Magic isn't part of the British government as such. We see Fudge talking to the Prime Minister at the start of Book 6 and it's basically a case where they function as their own government but have ties. For no particular reason I always felt that the Ministry of Magic was a part of the British government that has over the years become mostly autonomous due to the nature of the secrecy statute.
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Dec 1, 2014 05:59
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PT6A posted:I wonder if there are members of wizard parliament? Is the Minister of Magic the only elected position? Considering that Dumbledore had his own Mugwump/Swamp thingy, I'm pretty sure that they have to vote/bribe their way into higher positions.
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Dec 1, 2014 22:42
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QuoProQuid posted:I'm almost positive this is stated outright at one point, but can't remember where or by whom. Firenze the centaur says it obliquely, and Harry fills in the blanks. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone posted:"The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure and defenseless to save yourself, and you will have but a half-life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips."
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Dec 1, 2014 22:51
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PT6A posted:I wonder if there are members of wizard parliament? Is the Minister of Magic the only elected position? I almost posted a long thing about noble wizarding houses and then realized that's all fanon nonsense that doesn't actually show up in the books. There's no mention of the wizarding parliament anywhere, they don't specify how the Minister is elected. There's a "Board of Governors" for Hogwarts that the elder Malfoy was a member of, but otherwise it's never mentioned for example that he's also a member of some kind of wizarding House of Lords or that he has a title or anything.
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Dec 2, 2014 01:37
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Lupin says in Book 6 that there is no wizarding royalty, so my guess is that the Queen isn't recognized. I can't really see any of those old bigoted wizarding families deferring to a muggle HoS. There don't seem to be any explicit titles, but the Malfoys, Blacks, etc. seem to be an unofficial aristocracy. I don't think the Minister is elected either--IIRC they mentioned that there was a lot of support for Dumbledore and he was offered the role but he ultimately decided to turn down the post. We didn't hear anything about Scrimgeour being elected either. My guess is that the Wizengamot or whatever decides, like is done with the Pope. If there were elections I could hear Draco Malfoy or whoever complaining that pureblood wizards get the same amount of representation as muggleborns in the voting process.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:52
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The Minister is probably elected by a magical pair of clogs or something.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:54
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thexerox123 posted:The Minister is probably elected by a magical pair of clogs or something. The Sorting Clogs dictate what branch of the government a worker is in.
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Dec 2, 2014 02:59
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Pottermore had a lengthy write up about Wizarding government released last Halloween.
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Dec 2, 2014 03:55
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Is there any web site (other than Pottermore) that has the various write-ups that JKR has done over the years?
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Dec 2, 2014 04:32
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On the 12th day of Christmas, JK gave to me... Twelve new short stories ! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/07/jk-rowling-12-new-harry-potter-stories-christmas_n_6283836.html
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Dec 8, 2014 11:27
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At multiple times in the books, especially near the end, JKR introduces some magical law of physics to help the plot move along. In the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore explains that Voldemort's boat detects the number of wizards on board but does so by detecting "magical power", as if that's a measurable quantity attached to each wizard. Conveniently, the combined powers of the most powerful wizard ever and an adept underage wizard don't trip the magical sensors. She could have avoided the whole thing by just having a line like, "this rickety boat will barely fit us both." It's not like Voldemort or Regulus would have trusted any other human with the location of the horcrux anyway, so I think the idea that magical power is a measurable thing is just meaningless weight on an already convoluted magical system. How does this help the plot in any way?
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Dec 9, 2014 03:07
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Chamale posted:At multiple times in the books, especially near the end, JKR introduces some magical law of physics to help the plot move along. In the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore explains that Voldemort's boat detects the number of wizards on board but does so by detecting "magical power", as if that's a measurable quantity attached to each wizard. Conveniently, the combined powers of the most powerful wizard ever and an adept underage wizard don't trip the magical sensors. She could have avoided the whole thing by just having a line like, "this rickety boat will barely fit us both." It's not like Voldemort or Regulus would have trusted any other human with the location of the horcrux anyway, so I think the idea that magical power is a measurable thing is just meaningless weight on an already convoluted magical system. How does this help the plot in any way? I think because it reinforces the characterization of Voldemort as a Big Stupid Meanie-head who overlooked some fairly obvious things because he was an arrogant prick.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:18
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Chamale posted:At multiple times in the books, especially near the end, JKR introduces some magical law of physics to help the plot move along. In the Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore explains that Voldemort's boat detects the number of wizards on board but does so by detecting "magical power", as if that's a measurable quantity attached to each wizard. Conveniently, the combined powers of the most powerful wizard ever and an adept underage wizard don't trip the magical sensors. She could have avoided the whole thing by just having a line like, "this rickety boat will barely fit us both." It's not like Voldemort or Regulus would have trusted any other human with the location of the horcrux anyway, so I think the idea that magical power is a measurable thing is just meaningless weight on an already convoluted magical system. How does this help the plot in any way? Doesn't Dumbledore explain it more as being about their magical signatures, in a Homenum Revelio sort of way (but more sophisticated)? It doesn't matter how magically powerful you are for the boat's purposes. Hagrid and Lockhart couldn't ride in the boat together because they're both adult wizards even though Dumbledore certainly "outpowers" the two of them put together, if such a thing as magical power exists, and could ride solo in the boat. Voldemort was lazy and arrogant and wanted to leave himself the house elf loophole so he could place the locket in the basin in the first place using Kreacher, so he set up the charm on the boat so that it only looks for adult wizards because who else is likely to be a threat?
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Dec 9, 2014 21:50
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Or maybe it was just that there was enough of Voldemorts signature on harry for it to "pass" him and identify Dumbledore as an allowed companion.
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Dec 9, 2014 22:28
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Harry's not an adult wizard. 
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Dec 9, 2014 23:32
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The whole scene leads to all these complicated questions, when the rule is just unnecessary. If it weren't for the wizard-detecting vote, Voldemort and Kreacher would have placed the horcrux, Regulus and Kreacher would have retrieved the horcrux, and Harry and Dumbledore would have retrieved the false horcrux. It's not a plot hole, it's just unnecessary plot weight.
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Dec 9, 2014 23:39
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Chamale posted:The whole scene leads to all these complicated questions, when the rule is just unnecessary. I'd bet that scene doesn't lead to any questions for 99.9% of readers.
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Dec 9, 2014 23:44
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Most of the fun I get from Harry Potter these days is being overly analytical. Rowling is always randomly making up rules as she goes along.
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Dec 10, 2014 00:43
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Paragon8 posted:Most of the fun I get from Harry Potter these days is being overly analytical. She completely changed how they track underage wizards too. The loving trace. All for a plot point.
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Dec 10, 2014 01:27
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geeves posted:She completely changed how they track underage wizards too. The loving trace. All for a plot point. Port keys being introduced after Floo was established just to set up the Triwizard Cup portkey (which didn't even work as explained earlier) was a similar move. I always like to say that Rowling is a fantastic set designer but a pretty average world builder. Everything works great to support the narrative but under any deeper scrutiny it falls apart. Of course they're obstinately kids books about wizards and were never designed to survive that kind of scrutiny in the first place.
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Dec 10, 2014 01:42
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Portkeys vs Floo Powder isn't a plot hole. Floo Powder is a subway, Portkeys are an airplane.
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Dec 10, 2014 01:44
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Not saying it's a plot hole just an example of Rowling writing for the narrative rather than building an internally consistent world. Port keys are the third different method of instantaneous travel introduced in the series. They all narratively do different things as Rowling needs them to but it gets pretty cluttered. To her credit Rowling does end up using them well for story purposes but she's definitely inventing stuff to suit the plot as she goes along. Port Keys exist because she needed a way for Voldemort to get Harry to the graveyard. Honestly if you factor in the non-instantaneous travel methods Rowling has introduced you have the makings for a Magical Transportation Tycoon game.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:58
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Paragon8 posted:Not saying it's a plot hole just an example of Rowling writing for the narrative rather than building an internally consistent world. Well, while that's true, she does a fairly good job of making them distinct and giving them real-world parallels. The Floo Powder Network is specifically written to mimic the lines. (Right down to people getting off at the wrong stop and getting confused.) Portkeys are Airports: Great for travel to a specific place but you have to get there on time. Disapparation is cars: You need a license, it can cause accidents if used incorrectly and not everyone can do it or do so comfortably. There are certainly things I think Rowling didn't think through but the various methods of transporation seem pretty 1-1 with real world transportation.
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Dec 10, 2014 03:04
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ImpAtom posted:Well, while that's true, she does a fairly good job of making them distinct and giving them real-world parallels. The Floo Powder Network is specifically written to mimic the lines. (Right down to people getting off at the wrong stop and getting confused.) Portkeys are Airports: Great for travel to a specific place but you have to get there on time. Disapparation is cars: You need a license, it can cause accidents if used incorrectly and not everyone can do it or do so comfortably. There are certainly things I think Rowling didn't think through but the various methods of transporation seem pretty 1-1 with real world transportation. What are brooms in this analogy? Bicycles? Horses?
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Dec 10, 2014 03:06
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thexerox123 posted:What are brooms in this analogy? Bicycles? Horses? Brooms to be honest always seem kinda lovely in the HP universe outside of magical sports. I guess you could call them the skateboard of the magical universe.
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Dec 10, 2014 03:08
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thexerox123 posted:What are brooms in this analogy? Bicycles? Horses? Horses would be a pretty good analogy. It's an antiquated method of travel and generally is only used for sport.
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Dec 10, 2014 03:21
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JohnSherman posted:Horses would be a pretty good analogy. It's an antiquated method of travel and generally is only used for sport. Well, horses would be the analogy for Thestrals. Or possibly Centaurs, but the average Centaur would kick your face in for saying that. There's quite a bit of magical creatures that have been used for transport, up to and including dragons. And let's lot forget the Knight Bus.
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Dec 10, 2014 10:38
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ImpAtom posted:Portkeys vs Floo Powder isn't a plot hole. Floo Powder is a subway, Portkeys are an airplane. Also: you can't legally set up your own Portkey, so it's really only useful for pre-arranged travel. And you can't do the head-in-fire trick to just have a quick conversation.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:18
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Didn't they also say that they were having so many people come to the World Cup that floo powder was unusable? There are also certain fireplaces that can be used with it. The portkeys can be to a predetermined location and it can be anywhere.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:24
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bobkatt013 posted:Didn't they also say that they were having so many people come to the World Cup that floo powder was unusable? There are also certain fireplaces that can be used with it. The portkeys can be to a predetermined location and it can be anywhere. Only so many people can be flung out of a fireplace at once. The pile starts to block the opening.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:39
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ImpAtom posted:Well, while that's true, she does a fairly good job of making them distinct and giving them real-world parallels. The Floo Powder Network is specifically written to mimic the lines. (Right down to people getting off at the wrong stop and getting confused.) Portkeys are Airports: Great for travel to a specific place but you have to get there on time. Disapparation is cars: You need a license, it can cause accidents if used incorrectly and not everyone can do it or do so comfortably. There are certainly things I think Rowling didn't think through but the various methods of transporation seem pretty 1-1 with real world transportation. Arguably paralleling wizard logistics to muggle logistics hurts the world building despite making the wizarding world more familiar to the reader. Like the rough intent is there but you're basically dealing with three types of near-instantaneous teleportation which is so far beyond muggle comprehension that it sort of defies a direct parallel. It would be nicer to have them be more distinct as is they're sort of messy. Have Floo Powder be more about using fireplaces to access some kind of parallel dimension like the "ways" from Wheel of Time but more whimsical maybe. Port Keys could be a subset of the apparition charm in which an object is enchanted with side-along apparition etc. Like for a second imagine a hard science fiction world where there's three distinct types of teleportation. You've got wormholes that can be opened with a certain technology, you've got teleportation pad to teleportation pad travel, and you've got a special gland that can be grafted on to someone to allow them to teleport at will. It's all messy and convoluted. Now of course HP isn't hard sci-fi but to me at least it all gets pretty messy at least to me. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be argumentative, I genuinely love having these kind of discussions. I think it's so fascinating to over analyse and debate this. bobkatt013 posted:Didn't they also say that they were having so many people come to the World Cup that floo powder was unusable? There are also certain fireplaces that can be used with it. The portkeys can be to a predetermined location and it can be anywhere. The whole World Cup segment I find extremely problematic. Mainly due to the attendance numbers. 100k wizards throws so many other calculations off. With regard to logistics it seems very strange that with port keys, apparition and floo powder you'd need people to camp out for weeks prior to the match. Muggle sporting events easily deal with those crowds in a day. Paragon8 fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 01:58
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Paragon8 posted:Arguably paralleling wizard logistics to muggle logistics hurts the world building despite making the wizarding world more familiar to the reader. Like the rough intent is there but you're basically dealing with three types of near-instantaneous teleportation which is so far beyond muggle comprehension that it sort of defies a direct parallel. It would be nicer to have them be more distinct as is they're sort of messy. But they are distinctive. I'm not really sure what you mean by them not being so. Each one has a pretty clear distinct purpose and their own distinctive gimmick. I mean Floo Powder isn't instant teleportation despite you describing it that way. It's literally like a train. Harry goes through multiple fireplaces at once and accidentally gets off at the wrong stop. (They even describe it as going "one fireplace too far" when he screws up.) The problem with the large crowds at the cup wasn't getting them there, it was getting them there without it being super-obvious something was going on. (Which is mostly played for humor, of course.)
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Dec 11, 2014 02:06
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Paragon8 posted:
Not all those Wizards were from England or even Britain, though. I think Pottermore said that international travel was difficult for wizards because they make plane electronics go haywire.
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Dec 11, 2014 02:58
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ImpAtom posted:But they are distinctive. I'm not really sure what you mean by them not being so. Each one has a pretty clear distinct purpose and their own distinctive gimmick. I mean Floo Powder isn't instant teleportation despite you describing it that way. It's literally like a train. Harry goes through multiple fireplaces at once and accidentally gets off at the wrong stop. (They even describe it as going "one fireplace too far" when he screws up.) I just don't think they're distinctive enough in terms of speed. Floo is basically a waterslide. If we wanted to parallel it more to mass transit it'd be more about turning a 1hr trip into 5mins. Ultimately both port keys and floo become redundant after Apparition is widespread in the series. The three methods seem to just be invented to solely to move the plot. Floo to get Harry to Knockturn Alley and Port Keys to get him to the graveyard. Apparition just to move place to place quickly -- this is especially true of side-along apparition. If we had side-along apparition from book 1 there would essentially be no need for any other kind of transport. It only gets introduced when we need Dumbledore and Harry to travel together instantly when it's not convenient to use floo or a port key. It all gets quite clunky but it does hold together just about because we're always moving through the plot quickly. Narratively I'm not a huge fan of the instant travel methods because the actual travel methods are so cool. The Knight Bus, Hogwarts Express, Magic ship etc. are all so kicking rad.
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Dec 11, 2014 03:09
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Paragon8 posted:Ultimately both port keys and floo become redundant after Apparition is widespread in the series. They don't though. Floo Powder is presented as easier and less dangerous than Apparition and allows you to go to places that Apparition is blocked. Port Keys allow travel over extremely long distances which is specifically something Apparition doesn't. (Even Voldemort has to fly back into range when he goes overseas.) Like your argument appears to be "Apparition outweighs everything" but within the terms of the book that is presented as not true. Floo Powder and and Port Keys both are presented as safer and usable by everyone. I mean even within in the books themselves Ron takes a huge chunk of out of his arm and ends up bleeding out on a forest floor when he makes a mistake. In terms of world building, it makes sense for there to be safe methods of travel to go with the one that can make you lose a leg if you gently caress it up. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 03:12
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Paragon8 posted:The whole World Cup segment I find extremely problematic. Mainly due to the attendance numbers. 100k wizards throws so many other calculations off. With regard to logistics it seems very strange that with port keys, apparition and floo powder you'd need people to camp out for weeks prior to the match. Muggle sporting events easily deal with those crowds in a day. Ever been tailgating? Wizard tailgating. Plus its this big international wizard party. They have tent houses. Why not camp out for weeks?
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Dec 11, 2014 03:23
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To be honest the thing that always confused me the most was "how the gently caress are the Weasleys so poor?" I mean the answer honestly appears to be that they're insanely lovely with money. "We won the Wizard lottery? Time to blow all that money on a vacation!"
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Dec 11, 2014 03:25
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest the thing that always confused me the most was "how the gently caress are the Weasleys so poor?" The Weasleys are poor because the Malfoys are rich.
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Dec 11, 2014 03:36
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