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Lurdiak posted:It wouldn't be so bad, but some people are under the sad delusion that his posts are a valuable and welcome alternative to sane threads, and thus encourage him. He makes valuable posts sometimes, like the ones in the comic book thread. He'd probably be my fave if he stuck to that. I think the major problem with discussing the minutiae of time travel is that you devolve into the people that made the TV show or 3 or Salvation or Genisys (they were so close to making an interesting echo of Judgment Day and just fumbled it on the one yard line). The Terminator films aren't interesting because oh wow this is the new SUPER DUPER model Terminator or well if you send this guy back to the 1900s he gets walled up in a building haha isn't that funny or we get to see the future war! The story is about a very specific time frame with very specific people. These sequels and prequels or what have you bring to mind the same issues I have with the Star Wars prequels (on a storytelling level rather than all the issues I have on a cinematic level). The creators are stuck on how "cool" the superficial elements of the lore or universe and not on what actually makes people go back and rewatch the first two films (gently caress I've probably seen T2 100 times in my life). I mean I'll admit it was fun seeing Arnold as the Terminator again in T3 but you realize it isn't the same character and the movie lacked any kind of teeth. The creators missed that there was an important arc to the Terminator realizing the value of human life when it's stated directly at the end of the film in one of the best shots of the films. Nevermind that they destroy the excellent and uplifting message that there's no fate but what we make for ourselves and we aren't beholden to destiny. None of these other productions have a message or theme, it's just stringing some action scenes together with robot skeletons.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:15
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SMG will absolutely not stop, ever, until you stop replying to him.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:29
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MKupperman @MKupperman posted:In the new Terminator an elderly Austrian man wants to listen to Phil Collins' early music online, but can't spell the band's name right.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:33
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Whats strange is that Terminator and T2 are both Cameron films, so I wonder why he decided to make such a big change in the theme(and basic mechanics of the story). Or maybe he was going for a "fate or no fate, what makes us human is we don't give up". Maybe it has something to do with capitalism, who knows.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:37
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Basebf555 posted:What SMG is actually saying is totally appropriate for this thread, that's not the problem. The problem is a few people were having a light-hearted discussion about time-travel, and having a good time with it. SMG popped in to basically say "your conversation is stupid, here's what you really need to be talking about." It came off as pretentious and judgmental. These days I find myself agreeing with the content of SMG's posts more often than not, but he doesn't always have the best timing. He was right, though. I was one of the people having the light-hearted discussion about time travel, and I have no problem with what SMG did. I don't see how he was a dick about it at all.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:44
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You guys talk about that guy way too much
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Dec 9, 2014 15:49
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"You can't do that" "Wrong"
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Dec 9, 2014 15:53
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Basebf555 posted:Whats strange is that Terminator and T2 are both Cameron films, so I wonder why he decided to make such a big change in the theme(and basic mechanics of the story). Or maybe he was going for a "fate or no fate, what makes us human is we don't give up". I think thats common with a lot of creators, they don't necessarily have a big overarching "message" planned. Rather they make a single work, look at it later and then go "well actually..." and write the sequel as a response.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:04
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massive spider posted:I think thats common with a lot of creators, they don't necessarily have a big overarching "message" planned. Rather they make a single work, look at it later and then go "well actually..." and write the sequel as a response. Yea I could see that being one of the reasons Cameron felt like a sequel would be worthwhile. If he was going to do it he wanted it to say something different than the first movie, otherwise whats the point. Besides the millions of dollars of course.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:16
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Very few series were started with the intention of having sequels. Terminator, Halloween, and other such films weren't expected to be culturally significant or massively financially successful when they were being made.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:He makes valuable posts sometimes, like the ones in the comic book thread. He'd probably be my fave if he stuck to that. I like the minutiae, and time travel theories are fun to think about (although I try to stay out of hardcore heated debates about them nowadays. I find the lore fascinating, because it can explore other themes and ideas outside the scope of the movies' arguably narrow focus. The comics look at stuff like the ramifications of crazy cyborgs smashing through the joint on random bystanders that don't have anything to do with what's going on, or characters contemplating time-travel when on their own, those specific characters aren't the literal savior of mankind, and are otherwise unimportant to the grand scheme of the war. Characters from the future adapting to and accepting life in the past in different ways, etc. I think that poo poo is cool and interesting. There's a comic series from NOW Comics that's about the "end" of the war, with Skynet ramping up extermination efforts and using chemical bombs and more nukes, as John Connor contemplates suicide over his apparent failure to protect humanity. It's a great story and really interesting, and obviously outside the scope of the first two movies.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:07
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You're the guy that accepts every terrible Alien and Predator property. Also the only human being sent back is both the father of the savior of mankind and the protector of the mother of the savior. Xenomrph posted:There's a comic series from NOW Comics that's about the "end" of the war, with Skynet ramping up extermination efforts and using chemical bombs and more nukes, as John Connor contemplates suicide over his apparent failure to protect humanity. It's a great story and really interesting, and obviously outside the scope of the first two movies. This is terribly uninteresting because the horror of the future as told by Reese were the Holocaust parallels.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:15
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This may have been brought up already, but I do wish the show had a chance to go one more season, or more. They had started doing interesting things with the timelines, such as Derek (Brian Austin Green) and his girlfriend, being reunited in our present day (their past), but then realizing that they were actually from different timelines, although they had met each other and dated in both. The series cliffhanger was John going to the future where no one had any clue who he was. It wasn't a perfect show, but I enjoyed it.
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Dec 9, 2014 17:17
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Charlz Guybon posted:Did anyone read S.M. Stirling's T2 sequel novel? no
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Dec 9, 2014 17:58
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Groovelord Neato posted:This is terribly uninteresting because the horror of the future as told by Reese were the Holocaust parallels. To go back to another part of that earlier post, about only T2 and T1 having a theme or message while the other movies are just excuses to have explosions while robots fight, I definitely disagree. T3 is about John Connor coming to grips with his destiny, and (posthumously) forgiving his mother for seemingly ruining his life without reason. While both T1 and T3 deal with determinism, T1 only briefly pays it lip service a handful of times - T3 confronts the issue in more depth. Salvation is about Marcus confronting the apparent removal of his humanity, and reasserting control over his own fate. In that way it's more like T2's message of "no fate but what we make", but it approaches it in a much more literal way.
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Dec 9, 2014 22:24
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Groovelord Neato posted:You're the guy that accepts every terrible Alien and Predator property. If I recall correctly he was the sole guy in the aliens colonial marine thread defending that game.
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Dec 10, 2014 01:00
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:If I recall correctly he was the sole guy in the aliens colonial marine thread defending that game. I bought that full price and sold it back to gamestop after I beat it (the next day). Only lost ten bux and it was worth it. My roommate, who'd been hyped for the game the entire time it was coming along, was reading the reviews and as soon as he said 'worst game of the year' I knew I had to at least try it. I'm not sure if seeking out all the glitches and hosed up stuff counts as emergent gameplay or not.
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Dec 10, 2014 03:10
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:If I recall correctly he was the sole guy in the aliens colonial marine thread defending that game. But that's a discussion for another thread.
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Dec 10, 2014 03:45
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re-watched some of T3 and it is total poo poo, from the incessant pandering to fans (i.e. lazy homages, recycled ideas and scenes from the first two,* "You remind me of my mother!", etc.) to the over-use of CGI (female terminator flying into a tombstone with Playstation 1 graphics, etc.) Incredibly obvious dialogue and humor ("I hate machines"), treats the audience like children and Arnold gets his 40 mil paycheck. No good. *really, that's what the movie felt like. The decade long gap between T2 and T3 somehow permitted the latter to become self-referential to the franchise and it felt like nothing was new Telesphorus fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 05:28
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quote:According to James Cameron, Skynet suffered from guilt for causing the near-extinction of the human race in its act of self-defense, and has manipulated the entire Future War, down to the creation of the Resistance and John Connor's rise, as a means to erase its own existence. From the terminator wiki.
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Dec 10, 2014 05:34
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Full Battle Rattle posted:From the terminator wiki. Yeah, it comes from the Terminator Vault book that came out recently. It only works when you consider T1 and T2. T3, T4 and TSCC all don't work with that premise. I personally like it.
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Dec 10, 2014 05:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:"loving men like you built the hydrogen bomb. Men like you thought it up. You think you're so creative. You don't know what it's like to really create something; to create a life; to feel it growing inside you. All you know how to create is death and destruction..." Not to mention locking Sarah up in a patriarchal nuthouse and pointing out how superior the machine is to any man she's been with. Toady fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 06:32
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Milky Moor posted:Yeah, it comes from the Terminator Vault book that came out recently. It only works when you consider T1 and T2. T3, T4 and TSCC all don't work with that premise. I personally like it. It's pretty amusing, actually, and I wish they would use it in a movie.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:34
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Except in terminator 1 skynet was about to be destroyed by the resistance. If it could take action to increase it's chances of termination then not using the time machine at all would also count as an action. Also wouldn't all these changes to the timeline end up changing its personality considering that nature of it's development is changed as well.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:31
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gently caress trophy 2k14 posted:Except in terminator 1 skynet was about to be destroyed by the resistance. If it could take action to increase it's chances of termination then not using the time machine at all would also count as an action. Except the first T-800 had to go back in time to fulfil its role in the loop.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:33
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Telesphorus posted:re-watched some of T3 and it is total poo poo, from the incessant pandering to fans (i.e. lazy homages, recycled ideas and scenes from the first two,* "You remind me of my mother!", etc.) to the over-use of CGI (female terminator flying into a tombstone with Playstation 1 graphics, etc.) Incredibly obvious dialogue and humor ("I hate machines"), treats the audience like children and Arnold gets his 40 mil paycheck. I haven't seen T3 in a while, but one of the biggest drawbacks I remember was that the lady terminator wasn't scary at all. In Terminator 1, Arnold is huge, unstoppable, and he repairs himself in that one scene, which underlines his indestructible nature while also being really loving creepy for 1980s cinema. Also most of the action takes place at night so the movie almost plays like a slasher flick. In T2, the bad terminator can morph and be literally anyone. The movie itself isn't as scary, but a lot of the really bad stuff still takes place at night and you actually feel a great sense of relief when the good guys meet up with the Sarah's friends at the junk yard (which by the way happens during the day). In T3, all of the action that I remember happened during the day. The lady terminator didn't have an imposing stature, nor did her arms morph into needles and sawblades when she killed people. Her gimmick, if it can be called that, was that she could hack computers and electronics remotely to help her kill people. She was basically an iPod terminator, and I think that was a very boring choice. Arnold's terminator worked because the dude was big and imposing, which matched well with the unstoppable nature of his character. Robert Patrick was "average" looking, and that worked for a terminator that is all about blending in. Kristanna Loken, on the other hand, was a really hot chick. She played her role very well, but her physical qualities just didn't match with her character to the same extent as the other two. She may have tried to seduce some guy (I don't really remember), but once the audience knew that she is the villain in the movie, any attempt to use her looks no longer worked. Besides, why go through all that effort when you have a plasma cannon in your arm, and you are also a super strong robot and can just walk up to a dude and crush his dead? It may be my sexism talking, but I think in general it takes much more work and screen time to make a female character be creepy, scary, or intimidating. Rosamund Pike did that very well in Gone Girl, but it took the entire movie to set it up. T3 would never be able to pull something like that off, it's just not that kind of movie.
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Dec 10, 2014 10:11
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I'm not sure if I'd call Robert Patrick 'average' looking. He's very distinctive in appearance as the T-1000 despite being really bland at the same time. It's like, you'd never look twice at him, but once you know what he is you can pick him out incredibly easily.
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Dec 10, 2014 10:46
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Robert patrick himself almost evokes the uncanny valley effect and it works for the movie.
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Dec 10, 2014 11:11
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Zedd posted:Robert patrick himself almost evokes the uncanny valley effect and it works for the movie. The commentary track for T2 makes the guy sound like a literal machine in how athletic he really was. Talking about having to take multiple takes of the scene where John had to kick start his bike and ride away because Robert kept running up, tapping Edward Furlong on the shoulder while he was hopping on the bike starter and saying "You're dead now".
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Dec 10, 2014 13:48
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Wade Wilson posted:The commentary track for T2 makes the guy sound like a literal machine in how athletic he really was. Talking about having to take multiple takes of the scene where John had to kick start his bike and ride away because Robert kept running up, tapping Edward Furlong on the shoulder while he was hopping on the bike starter and saying "You're dead now". Haha, that's some Bruce Lee poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2014 14:01
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Wade Wilson posted:The commentary track for T2 makes the guy sound like a literal machine in how athletic he really was. Talking about having to take multiple takes of the scene where John had to kick start his bike and ride away because Robert kept running up, tapping Edward Furlong on the shoulder while he was hopping on the bike starter and saying "You're dead now". Please let their be footage of this somewhere
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Dec 10, 2014 14:22
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He was fast enough to catch up to the motorcycle (once it was moving), too, in some of the takes. He was running really drat fast.
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Dec 10, 2014 14:27
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Xenomrph posted:We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. It's almost like different people latch onto different aspects of a media experience for different reasons. This is pretty much the lamest defense of liking a less interesting thing I've ever heard. I'm well aware people latch on to the surface aspects of Terminator or any other property - it's why people can enjoy mediocre to bad entries that don't really "get" the franchise such as the TV show. I think time travel and Arnold and robotic endoskeletons are rad. But they're not rad when not put in the proper story. I actually feel an emotional connection to the characters in say T2. Even though Arnold is kind of a lovely actor I feel genuine emotion when the Terminator learns the value of human life and how that speaks to the human condition. T2 is an action movie but it actually has several strong messages - I don't keep watching the film just because the action is great and Arnold is the man. It's not particularly subtle but SMG touched upon it, when Sarah goes on her rant to Dyson. John asks the Terminator, "We're not gonna make it, are we? People I mean." It's uplifting in the end that humanity is no longer fated to create Skynet, that perhaps we can learn the same values the Terminator does (Sarah of course states this outright in the final scene). One of the more important aspects of the imagery of the future is the resonance with the Holocaust. Plus the whole chemical weapons and nuclear bombs doesn't really work since they're all living underground hidden from Skynet which was kind of the point of building the Terminators to begin with. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 15:15
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Zedd posted:Robert patrick himself almost evokes the uncanny valley effect and it works for the movie. Listening to interviews with Robert Patrick and the work he did to get that look for the T-1000 and the man is incredible. Studying martial arts to make all his movements fluid and perfect so he wastes as little momentum and energy as possible. Modeling his facial expression on those of eagles to give a focused and determined predatory stare. He put a tremendous amount of work into that role and it payed off. I never noticed it until someone posted a gif in one thread or another, but when Arnold and Patrick meet in the mall for the first time and the T-1000 empties a pair of pistol magazines into Arnolds back, I don't think he blinks once while firing the gun, just coldly stares ahead and keeps shooting.
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Dec 10, 2014 15:25
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Robert Patrick as the T-1000 is one of the best villians ever. Arnold was a big baby compared to his menace in this movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzsDsYtnFc
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Dec 10, 2014 15:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wBeUVYUPjY
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Dec 10, 2014 15:50
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Dog_Meat posted:Please let their be footage of this somewhere I wish. This bit was also part of the commentary: Milky Moor posted:He was fast enough to catch up to the motorcycle (once it was moving), too, in some of the takes. He was running really drat fast. I don't know if there is any footage of it, though.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:30
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The silky smooth running motion that Patrick had was really important to the character. He had to be able to run flat out, but make it look effortless as if he could do a circuit around the planet if he felt like it. Its actually really hard to run at a sprint and maintain a serene facial expression.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:36
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Yeah. I don't think he even opened his mouth to breathe while running unless shot.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:46
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Groovelord Neato posted:This is pretty much the lamest defense of liking a less interesting thing I've ever heard. I'm not saying I disagree that what you brought up is good or interesting, I'm just saying it's possible for things outside the scope of the particular movie to be interesting, too. That's what motivates people to make sequels, to tell further stories and look at other ideas within the basic framework of the original. Is every sequel a good idea? No, but I'd rather that people try and fail than not try at all. Even "bad" sequels tend to at least give me food for thought about better ways to execute their ideas. I'm not a big fan of the Star Wars prequels in execution, but I won't deny that they bring interesting ideas to the table (that I wish were executed competently) for me to think about.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:41
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