|
RickVoid posted:I've resigned myself to doing nothing but gimmick runs in Crawl; Eliphas the Chaos Space Marine (Demonspawn Chaos Knight), The Librarian (Mummy whos job is to find at least 1 of every game item and store it in the Temple), etc. Christ alive. How many items are there in Crawl?
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2014 22:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 22:04 |
|
|
Tollymain posted:i beat crawl I beat NetHack once. I almost beat SLASH'EM too - was well past the point where I seriously had to worry about dying by any of the usual early or mid-game reasons and could take down more or less anything with standard melee combat (even killed Demogorgon), and got stoned by a basilisk hiss that I didn't notice in a bunch of combat spam  I had like 3 lizard corpses on me!I've never even come close to beating Crawl. I've never even gotten as far as getting a rune in Crawl. I am bad at Crawl.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2014 23:37
|
|
|
I always thought Crawl was easier than Nethack. The sheer tedium of writing Elbereth on the ground 1000 times made it unplayable for me. Dungeon Crawl is slow, but Nethack is absolutely intolerable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
Crawl definitely has less look it up in the wiki type bullshit, which i prefer because i generally will only look at a games wiki after i've beaten it once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2014 23:59
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:I always thought Crawl was easier than Nethack. The sheer tedium of writing Elbereth on the ground 1000 times made it unplayable for me. Dungeon Crawl is slow, but Nethack is absolutely intolerable. I think the only time I ever used Elbereth was on a Wizard Just play a Samurai and kill the poo poo out of all the things
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 00:14
|
|
|
victrix posted:I think the only time I ever used Elbereth was on a Wizard Yeah I'm actually really bad at using Elbereth. The one time I beat it was with a monk (who get very easy once you get a few levels in and raise martial arts skill. Basically the only hard thing about a monk is their quest boss). The only classes I can do well with are ones like Sam, Val, etc. that are similarly melee focused. Every time I try to play a wizard I end up getting killed by something around Minetown. I think my problem is I always feel like I'm slightly tougher than I actually am, which is why I tend to do badly in Crawl as well, since even as a melee in that game it's easy to get overwhelmed. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Dec 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 00:39
|
|
|
Questions: 1: Is this land owned? 2: How far are we from our goblin cave?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 00:44
|
|
|
Nettle Soup posted:Questions: Pretty far, actually. Take a turn left at Paradise Lost.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 00:48
|
|
|
I ascended in Nethack on the 3rd character I made but I used every spoiler in the book and also had a lot of help from goons in the Nethack thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 01:58
|
|
|
Rapacity posted:Christ alive. How many items are there in Crawl? Lots. But I thoroughly cheat to do it. (You can copy one Temple map file from one character to another by giving it the name of the character you want to use it. So long as neither The Librarian or the other character save the game while they are in the Temple, you don't have to worry about errors or corruption. That way you can trawl items from other runs and use the hungerless Librarian to curate everything.) Honestly the most difficult part is actually getting a Mummy to survive long enough to reach the Temple. RIP. It does result in some weirdness where the Librarian recognizes a Potion of Healing from it's run, because they already Id'd it, but can't recognize an un-id'd one from another character because of how Id-ing works. There are, of course, other, less kosher things you can do with this. Like saving a copy of the Temple full of items to another location, go into the game and remove the items, saving outside the Temple, and the pasteing the old Temple file over the new one. Bam, instant item duplication. I try to limit myself to just doing it with ID scrolls. (So the Librarian doesn't kill himself test-IDing things.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 01:58
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:I beat NetHack once. I almost beat SLASH'EM too - was well past the point where I seriously had to worry about dying by any of the usual early or mid-game reasons and could take down more or less anything with standard melee combat (even killed Demogorgon), and got stoned by a basilisk hiss that I didn't notice in a bunch of combat spam I've beaten Nethack three times and never even come close to beating SLASH'EM. Possibly because I have a bad habit of wanting to play fragile characters like doppelgangers. I think my Nethacking days are pretty much behind me; even with the NAO patches, it's just too clunky for me to enjoy these days. But I did like a lot of the changes SLASH'EM made. I think I'd enjoy a take on it with a modern UI and balance that's less "throw everything in and see if any of it works".
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 02:51
|
|
|
TOOT BOOT posted:http://www.reverbnation.com/soundwizard/song/22407260-khelavasters-prophecy?1336410755 It's almost too perfect 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 02:54
|
|
|
ToxicFrog posted:I think my Nethacking days are pretty much behind me; even with the NAO patches, it's just too clunky for me to enjoy these days. But I did like a lot of the changes SLASH'EM made. I think I'd enjoy a take on it with a modern UI and balance that's less "throw everything in and see if any of it works". Nethack was an incredibly unique game, dumb and bad and awful and amazing all at the same time. I think it has too many janky and very very old references/gags/etc to be universally appealing anymore. Brogue feels like its rightfully hateful little brother to some degree. I can't think of another game quite like Nethack in terms of world interaction though, I really wish some roguelikes would focus on toys and tools to interact with the world rather than obtuse and complicated systems for making @s and Ds have alphabet sex by bumping and grinding in melee combat. I almost think games like Terraria carry on that legacy better than roguelikes have.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:02
|
|
|
ToxicFrog posted:I've beaten Nethack three times and never even come close to beating SLASH'EM. Possibly because I have a bad habit of wanting to play fragile characters like doppelgangers. Remaking NetHack with a more user friendly AI has been one of my "One of these days" plans for ages. I kind of have the same issue with it - hell if there was just a UI indication for stoning I probably would have ascended that SLASH'EM Valk  . The real trick to SLASH'EM I think is actually just surviving the early game. The levelling rate takes some getting used to and it's easy to outpace what you can actually handle if you head through the dungeon at the same rate you would in normal NetHack. It's a better idea to slow down and fight easier stuff until you hit level 4-5 at least, at which point the rate starts to get closer to what you're used to and you can take a normal pace from there.Doppelgangers are actually really good - All their stats cap at 20 except CHA and who cares about CHA (STR caps at 18/** which is equivalent to 20 in most checks)? The liquid leap ability they get shouldn't be underestimated either - I've saved myself tons of times from being boxed in by a bunch of nasty enemies just by liquid leaping out of the pile to a safe place. You can also use it offensively if you want to put yourself next to a particularly annoying enemy (like a caster) without having to clear the whole way over. Basically the one downside with Doppelgangers is that they can't #twoweapon for whatever reason (Vampires and Lycanthropes can't either - it seems to be their balance choice for the races that get lots of special powers). If you want to play the easiest class/race combo in SLASH'EM, be a Doppelganger Monk. Monks are even MORE crazy overpowered in SLASH'EM, and monster attacks use unarmed/martial arts skill, so once you hit level 9 and get intrinsic polymorph control, you can just change into something with a ton of natural attacks and go nuts. Even the normally nasty quest nemesis is a lot easier to deal with in SLASH'EM thanks to thinks like potions of invulnerability which will negate his ridiculous physical damage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:17
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:I always thought Crawl was easier than Nethack. The sheer tedium of writing Elbereth on the ground 1000 times made it unplayable for me. Dungeon Crawl is slow, but Nethack is absolutely intolerable. You only need to write Elbereth 1000 times if you constantly put yourself in situations that require Elbereth. Having Elbereth is nice and all but it's far from required to win the game. The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah I'm actually really bad at using Elbereth. The one time I beat it was with a monk (who get very easy once you get a few levels in and raise martial arts skill. Basically the only hard thing about a monk is their quest boss). The only classes I can do well with are ones like Sam, Val, etc. that are similarly melee focused. Every time I try to play a wizard I end up getting killed by something around Minetown. The trick for wizards is to feed your cat enough kills that it turns into a strong enough killing machine to keep you alive until you have a decent mana pool. That, and pick up every dagger you find to throw at enemies. The bad times are worth it when you become an unstoppable engine of destruction post-quest. ToxicFrog posted:I've beaten Nethack three times and never even come close to beating SLASH'EM. Possibly because I have a bad habit of wanting to play fragile characters like doppelgangers. Yeah, Crawl is pretty much objectively better than Nethack. Nethack has plenty of great concepts but the balance is terrible. Once you find a friendly altar(or really any altar not in Minetown) you can make the difficulty level drop down to almost nothing. Combine that with the sheer amount of knowledge you have to pick up through trial and error or wiki reading, and how easy it is to abuse savescumming, I really can't recommend the game for new roguelike players. I'd still try to beat Slashem if the Nintendo DS port wasn't buggy as poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:18
|
|
|
The Cheshire Cat posted:If you want to play the easiest class/race combo in SLASH'EM, be a Doppelganger Monk. Monks are even MORE crazy overpowered in SLASH'EM, and monster attacks use unarmed/martial arts skill, so once you hit level 9 and get intrinsic polymorph control, you can just change into something with a ton of natural attacks and go nuts. Even the normally nasty quest nemesis is a lot easier to deal with in SLASH'EM thanks to thinks like potions of invulnerability which will negate his ridiculous physical damage. You're making me want to play Nethack again  I wonder if the Vulture's Eye/Claw project is still around?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:19
|
|
|
ToxicFrog posted:You're making me want to play Nethack again Even if it isn't, it's not like there's been an official Nethack release in the last dozen years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:25
|
|
Nettle Soup posted:Questions: 1. Yes. 2. It is at the corner of the river where it bends upwards.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
Eschatos posted:The trick for wizards is to feed your cat enough kills that it turns into a strong enough killing machine to keep you alive until you have a decent mana pool. That, and pick up every dagger you find to throw at enemies. The bad times are worth it when you become an unstoppable engine of destruction post-quest. The trick with wizards is to grant yourself uncontrolled polymorphitis and a gigantic pile of negative gold and then trounce your way through the Castle as a queen bee, fatally stinging every single monster in the place in a single attack. (The above link is to a still-in-progress TAS of the DOS version of NetHack, to be totally clear)
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:40
|
|
|
Thanks for the advice Sildudes. After reading that, I'm getting to 450 feet consistently. I'll crack this eventually.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:41
|
|
|
Diogines posted:1. Yes. You. Get back to your game thread. Back I say! 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 03:53
|
|
|
Speaking of Brogue, I don't think it's actually possible to win more than like 50% of its games. You're not guaranteed to get a workable set of equipment, and even if a good set gets spawned you have to correctly predict what you're going to get in the future because with the hunger clock being what it is you can't go back to pick another item from vaults. And even if you do get a good set of items, for the last few floors you can't really do anything but dive blindly and hope to get lucky
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Dec 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 04:47
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:Speaking of Brogue, I don't think it's actually possible to win more than like 50% of its games. You're not guaranteed to get a workable set of equipment, and even if a good set gets spawned you have to correctly predict what you're going to get in the future because with the hunger clock being what it is you can't go back to pick another item from vaults. And even if you do get a good set of items, for the last few floors you can't really do anything but dive blindly and hope to get lucky As ever, I'm sure there are some dudes on the Brogue forums with some hilariously high win rate My major gripe with the game turned out not to be that, or the nasty deaths, or equipment management... nope, it was the pets. I hate pets, in basically any game. And managing them well in Brogue is really powerful. It's also fiddly as all gently caress because, well, pets.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 05:05
|
|
|
Even if the above is true, I'm fairly certain that the end goal of Brogue development isn't that it be a 50% luck-and-pray fest. I get the sense that it's intended to be balanced so that as long as you roll with the equipment-doling punches and make pretty wise decisions, you still have a shot at a win. But that's not based on anything real that the developer said. I'm taking a break from Brogue myself until the next revision, I kind of played it out and hit some annoyance/carelessness/laziness levels that kept me from making more progress. as the poster just above me said, pets are a major reason why I stopped playing Brogue for now. They need some more balance tweaking and I don't enjoy shepherding them around.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 05:08
|
|
|
Every once in a while your pets just unavoidably die because their AI ran into a dead end trying to escape a cloud of caustic gas.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 05:55
|
|
|
Observation: Life technically satisfies the core components of a roguelike. Permadeath? Check. Procedural generation and randomness? Check. Careful, long-term oriented play ideal? Check. Hooray it qualifies. Numerous design flaws in LifeRL abound. The real time nature of it allows for less strategic choices than would otherwise be seen in a turn-based experience. Too much grinding required. The open-ended sandbox playstyle is fun at first but the lack of a predefined objective precludes a more satisfying resolution. Self-imposed goals/playstyles/conducts provide an imperfect substitute. Speed running not advised. Conclusion: B+. Worth trying out at least once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
Happylisk posted:Observation: Life technically satisfies the core components of a roguelike. Permadeath? Check. Procedural generation and randomness? Check. Careful, long-term oriented play ideal? Check. Hooray it qualifies. That was incredible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
Happylisk posted:Observation: Life technically satisfies the core components of a roguelike. Permadeath? Check. Procedural generation and randomness? Check. Careful, long-term oriented play ideal? Check. Hooray it qualifies. You're joking, but that's kind of the appeal of roguelikes to me. More than any other genres they simulate real life experiences. You can't experience the same thing twice, so you'll only ever have an idea of what's coming up, you'll never actually know, and you only get one shot at it. The tolerance for failure in roguelikes (moreso in some) is the same as the tolerance for failure in life, but the impact of failure is obviously much lower.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
Happylisk posted:Numerous design flaws in LifeRL abound. The real time nature of it allows for less strategic choices than would otherwise be seen in a turn-based experience. Too much grinding required. The open-ended sandbox playstyle is fun at first but the lack of a predefined objective precludes a more satisfying resolution. Self-imposed goals/playstyles/conducts provide an imperfect substitute. Speed running not advised. The UI isn't clear and the consequences of your actions aren't clear from the start, so it's difficult to learn from you mistakes/develop a clear strategy. I know I'd bother to train STR much more often if the bloody thing showed my stat increases after each lifting session.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 19:52
|
|
|
Design of LifeRL is pretty bad in general. Not only is the a crap ton of grind but also because all mechanics are needlessly overcomplicated you can't really plan your strategy and it makes it way too difficult to make a comprehensive Wiki on it. It's like they expect me win it on my first blind playthrough. Is there even a win condition? Fat Samurai posted:I know I'd bother to train STR much more often if the bloody thing showed my stat increases after each lifting session. I did read that INT is quite viable though I haven't had the chance to try out different builds yet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:15
|
|
|
Jack Trades posted:Design of LifeRL is pretty bad in general. Not only is the a crap ton of grind but also because all mechanics are needlessly overcomplicated you can't really plan your strategy and it makes it way too difficult to make a comprehensive Wiki on it. Hey, last century they didn't even have a wiki 
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
victrix posted:Hey, last century they didn't even have a wiki It's good they patched that in. Wait! RL. RL. Rogue like. Real life. It all makes sense now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:21
|
|
|
The wikis that do exist are woefully inadequate. They often dive into pointless deviations and contain outright falsehoods.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:21
|
|
|
Some classes are too powerful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:30
|
|
|
Is character creator broken for everyone or is it just me? It forced me to pick random. It's been millions of billions of years since open beta and they still haven't patched a single bug yet. Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:51
|
|
|
Harvey Mantaco posted:Some classes are too powerful. I normally don't have a problem with 'challenge races', but it doesn't work too well in a game that doesn't give you any control over character creation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:52
|
|
|
Mr. Wednesday posted:I normally don't have a problem with 'challenge races', but it doesn't work too well in a game that doesn't give you any control over character creation. Character creation is actually fairly deterministic but someone else makes a lot of the choices for you.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Anyone found a way to savescum yet?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 21:00
|
|
|
I'm trying to make a bot for it but without much success yet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2014 21:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 22:04 |
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:The trick with wizards is to grant yourself uncontrolled polymorphitis and a gigantic pile of negative gold and then trounce your way through the Castle as a queen bee, fatally stinging every single monster in the place in a single attack. This was such an amazing read and I've probably played nethack for all of 3 hours in my life. I wish it was finished!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2014 02:09
|
|
