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I know some folks are worried about anti-American backlash as a result of it.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:30
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Vasudus posted:This is America, someone go and snag some highlights for me. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/09/the-most-gruesome-moments-in-the-cia-torture-report.html I don't see the big deal
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Dec 9, 2014 20:33
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Its awesome because it gets organizations who put bombs in marketplaces, murder gays, marry/rape children, and execute random people on a daily basis to call us human rights abusing monsters because we waterboarded some of their people.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:35
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 What is that man doing to his lunch!
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Dec 9, 2014 20:37
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If any of it actually did anything useful we would have heard about the specifics by now. Bush and the CIA leaked everything good for them immediately. Like when they left that doctor who helped catch Bin Laden to die because no one could wait to fellate themselves for killing Bin Laden.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:40
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Best Friends posted:If any of it actually did anything useful we would have heard about the specifics by now. Bush and the CIA leaked everything good for them immediately. Like when they left that doctor who helped catch Bin Laden to die because no one could wait to fellate themselves for killing Bin Laden. uhm...you realize that Bin Laden wasn't killed on Bush's watch, right?
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Dec 9, 2014 20:41
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I would be mostly mad at the CIA for doing dumb things to people who didn't know anything in the first place. That's hosed up, yo.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:41
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ActusRhesus posted:uhm...you realize that Bin Laden wasn't killed on Bush's watch, right? Yeah, that's what I mean by Bush and the CIA, not Bush with the CIA. The pro torture argument is basically "trust us it helped in 2004 and on" and if that was true, we'd know about exactly how and why. The guys who let this happen: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/world/asia/pakistan-bin-laden-doctor/ Are not shy about hyping themselves up. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 20:43
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Vasudus posted:This is America, someone go and snag some highlights for me. Just scroll to a random page for your  highlights. It's like bobbing for water.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:45
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MEDS CURE SCHIZOS posted:Just scroll to a random page for your I'm on my phone in a meeting, lol at loading a 499 page PDF on it right now.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:46
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gently caress I would have killed for a hummus, pasta, nuts and raisins MRE this is bullshit
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Dec 9, 2014 20:48
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I'm wicked stoned so maybe that's why I just think its ok to give a little torture here and there to the same fucks who will make a 12 year old girl walk into a wedding with enough explosives strapped to her to put a loving crater in the earth big enough to crash land all the f-35s we have.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:50
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Cole posted:I'm wicked stoned so maybe that's why I just think its ok to give a little torture here and there to the same fucks who will make a 12 year old girl walk into a wedding with enough explosives strapped to her to put a loving crater in the earth big enough to crash land all the f-35s we have. being better than them, etc etc, democracy freedom, show them how civilised we are
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Dec 9, 2014 20:53
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I get that no one's going to prison for this, and I disappoint myself by starting with that assumption. The big question I have is why won't anyone go to prison? It seems like a fairly short path from "We don't do these things, because [long list of reasons from bad intel to inviting retaliation on US POWs]" to "When we catch someone doing these things, we punish them to discourage others from doing them." All I want for Christmas is for this motherfucker to do hard time.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:55
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I don't see how torture is much worse than burning someone to death or shooting their guts out, which are both things 99% of people are just fine with, but it doesn't actually seem to do anything except make fat dickless talk radio fucks and their fans feel manly.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:55
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Here is one of the greatest interrogators of all time, maybe the best: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff Note the total lack of actual torture.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:58
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Vasudus posted:This is America, someone go and snag some highlights for me. People got tortured. As in 'no way to redefine or lawyer your way around it'-torture. A lot/most of this torture produced nothing of value. People were tortured despite the brass in charge knowing there was nothing of value to be gained from it, because gently caress em'. A few of those tortured were not actually enemies of the US. But rather enemies of whatever local warlord allied with the US, or just got fingered by someone who were themselves getting tortured. Still got tortured, because gently caress em'. So basically nothing we already didn't know. Only difference is it'll be more difficult to feign ignorance now. Someone might get scapegoated for it, but don't bet your house it'll be anyone important. quote:The big question I have is why won't anyone go to prison? Because the people deciding whether anyone should go to prison are also the ones who would go to prison if you were to let justice run it's logical course up the chain of command. Courthouse fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 20:58
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RonMexicosPitbull posted:Its awesome because it gets organizations who put bombs in marketplaces, murder gays, marry/rape children, and execute random people on a daily basis to call us human rights abusing monsters because we waterboarded some of their people. Cole posted:I'm wicked stoned so maybe that's why I just think its ok to give a little torture here and there to the same fucks who will make a 12 year old girl walk into a wedding with enough explosives strapped to her to put a loving crater in the earth big enough to crash land all the f-35s we have. One problem with that line of reasoning: quote:Of the 119 known detainees, at least 26 were wrongfully held and did not meet the detention standard in the September 2001 Memorandum of Notification (MON). These included an "intellectually challenged" man whose CIA detention was used solely as leverage to get a family member to provide information, two individuals who were intelligence sources for foreign liaison services and were former CIA sources, and two individuals whom the CIA assessed to be connected to al-Qa'ida based solely on information fabricated by a CIA detainee subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.
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Dec 9, 2014 20:59
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I know some folks are worried about anti-American backlash as a result of it. Man it's almost like if you don't want people to hate you don't do lovely things like torture people. I'm not saying that a lot of those people wouldn't have the same opinions about us if we hadn't tortured, but the fact that US Senators can say with a straight face "don't publish this report about the really bad things we all admit that we did because it might make people not like us" is sadly hilarious to me. Also this is a pretty pro-read on the subject. Best Friends posted:I don't see how torture is much worse than burning someone to death or shooting their guts out, which are both things 99% of people are just fine with, but it doesn't actually seem to do anything except make fat dickless talk radio fucks and their fans feel manly. A non-zero portion of the people we tortured hadn't actually done anything against U.S./coalition/whatever forces, which means that outside of collateral damage/targeting mistakes/whatever we wouldn't have been trying to burn them to death or shoot their guts out. e: Nevermind turns out the CIA program did torture some people who hadn't done anything, welp lol the CIA tortured people who were sources for allied governments, people who were there solely because someone else being tortured said they were bad, and a retarded person. This is like something out of a bad movie. iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Dec 9, 2014 |
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Dec 9, 2014 21:01
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Zeris posted:gently caress I would have killed for a hummus, pasta, nuts and raisins MRE this is bullshit yeah, but you would have had to have it fed to you up the butt.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:04
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iyaayas01 posted:
The percentage of people we killed in Iraq who fall into the "collateral damage/targeting mistake category" is at least a majority, probably a very strong majority. The figure I heard from a major on the rate of cars we shot up for suspected VBIED actually being a VBIED was something like 5%.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:05
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:One problem with that line of reasoning: Yeah but my line of pro torture reasoning has nothing to do with getting information from people.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:13
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Best Friends posted:The percentage of people we killed in Iraq who fall into the "collateral damage/targeting mistake category" is at least a majority, probably a very strong majority. The figure I heard from a major on the rate of cars we shot up for suspected VBIED actually being a VBIED was something like 5%. I'd argue there is a distinct difference between shooting a car up because they weren't slowing down when people pointed guns at them, and slowly and methodically torturing someone you know is probably innocent.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:18
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Courthouse posted:I'd argue there is a distinct difference between shooting a car up because they weren't slowing down when people pointed guns at them, and slowly and methodically torturing someone you know is probably innocent. yeah. fog of war and all that.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:19
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Courthouse posted:I'd argue there is a distinct difference between shooting a car up because they weren't slowing down when people pointed guns at them, and slowly and methodically torturing someone you know is probably innocent. But in the grand scheme of things, it's about the same as projectile diarrhea-ing the entirety of a gas station bathroom, then getting upset about dropping a wad of used toilet paper on the floor.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:21
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LongDarkNight posted:
Diets are getting weirder and weirder. "I lost weight using this one crazy CIA trick."
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Dec 9, 2014 21:23
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I wish John McCain were like this more often rather than the bitter husk he has become: http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/we-need-not-risk-our-national-honor-prevail-or-any-war
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Dec 9, 2014 21:26
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I wish John McCain were like this more often rather than the bitter husk he has become: after watching game change i legit feel sorry for him
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Dec 9, 2014 21:29
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i am still cool with forcing enhanced interrogation methods on their apologists. imagining half the cast and crew of fox and friends glubbing down the water cooler while their interns hold them down is pretty  -yi guess that technically makes me a torture supporter, but i think my goal is noble. 
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Dec 9, 2014 21:34
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Best Friends posted:Here is one of the greatest interrogators of all time, maybe the best: We also had this guy and his team help pin down al-Zarqawi's location in Iraq as well. All without using torture. Fucitol posted:i am still cool with forcing enhanced interrogation methods on their apologists.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:38
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Was the rectal stuff more, "gently caress this guy I'm doing something whacky" as opposed to "hey I just got this great idea for information extraction"?
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Dec 9, 2014 21:38
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Fucitol posted:i am still cool with forcing enhanced interrogation methods on their apologists. That little rat gently caress Sean Hannity said that he'd go get waterboarded and then bitched out. The only one that I remember offhand who supported waterboarding and then changed his mind after trying it was Christopher Hitchens.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:38
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Who was the hardcore Fox News waterboarding apologist who volunteered to be waterboarded a few years ago to prove it wasn't so bad, only lasted a few seconds before calling it quits, and immediately reversed his stance? efb
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Dec 9, 2014 21:39
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gfanikf posted:Was the fixed
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Dec 9, 2014 21:41
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iyaayas01 posted:fixed Valid question too.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:45
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psydude posted:Who was the hardcore Fox News waterboarding apologist who volunteered to be waterboarded a few years ago to prove it wasn't so bad, only lasted a few seconds before calling it quits, and immediately reversed his stance? Mancow, I believe. http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/archive/Mancow-Takes-on-Waterboarding-and-Loses.html
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Dec 9, 2014 21:46
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Best Friends posted:I don't see how torture is much worse than burning someone to death or shooting their guts out, which are both things 99% of people are just fine with, but it doesn't actually seem to do anything except make fat dickless talk radio fucks and their fans feel manly. You're allowed to do all sorts of horrible poo poo to combatants who are trying to kill you, but if you set a helpless prisoner on fire most people would agree you'd be a war criminal. Hors de combat matters.
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Dec 9, 2014 21:53
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huh i wonder what the tea party has to say about this http://www.tpnn.com/2014/12/09/democrat-report-puts-americans-at-risk-for-terrorist-attacks/ lol
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Dec 9, 2014 21:54
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:I wish John McCain were like this more often rather than the bitter husk he has become: this was really loving good, thanks
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Dec 9, 2014 21:59
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ActusRhesus posted:yeah, but you would have had to have it fed to you up the butt. 
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Dec 9, 2014 22:01
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