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New Division posted:Given that even the Church Commission ultimately failed to permanently tamp down CIA malfeasance, I don't know why anyone expects that they won't proceed to do similar things in the future. One thing's for sure, there's nothing resembling the Church Commission on the way. The general desire seems to be to quickly forget this or deny that it was even a bad thing. I mean, the last 6-8 years indicate pretty clearly that the US isn't interested in capturing terrorists /torturing detainees anymore, it just kills them. That could change, but if you read some of the excerpted emails, they seemed to think it was way too messy and problematic pretty early on. It produced limited intelligence and resulted in dozens of detainees they had to hold onto indefinitely. quote:CTC Legal stated that the prospect that the CIA "could hold [detainees] forever" was "terrifying," adding, "[n]o quote:CIA draft talking points produced a month later state that transfer to Department of Defense or Department of Justice custody was the "preferred endgame
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:57 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:57 |
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poisonpill posted:It's surprising how well funded everything was. I mean we shut down the space program but spent a billion dollars shoving food up prisoners' butts. I am floored at how much cash flowed so freely. All you need are like forty bucks of wire and a car battery or something It's to grease the palms, and the government knows exactly how loving shady and horrific this all was(is).
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 00:58 |
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Xandu posted:I mean, the last 6-8 years indicate pretty clearly that the US isn't interested in capturing terrorists /torturing detainees anymore, it just kills them. That could change, but if you read some of the excerpted emails, they seemed to think it was way too messy and problematic pretty early on. It produced limited intelligence and resulted in dozens of detainees they had to hold onto indefinitely. Given that the CIA was torturing their own informants, I'm not exactly filled with confidence that the assasination program is any more competently run. Really, that program should not be considered any more justified than the torture/rendition efforts.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:05 |
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It certainly has its own problems, I just doubt we're going to see another detainee program starting up any time soon.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:08 |
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Torture of detainees of interest is probably entirely outsourced to other countries these days instead of just mostly outsourced
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:10 |
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Under international law (Articles 7(1) (f) and (k), 8(2)(a)(ii) and (iii), 8(b)(xxi), and 8(c)(ii) of Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court for instance) any act of torture will constitute either a crime against humanity or a war crime. That's not to mention the basic morality that underpins those laws which has caused it to become part and parcel of the peremptory norms of customary international humanitarian law (CIHL), the body of law (recognised by every international legal body) that applies to all countries. This is worth mentioning because torture is considered abominable enough that it carries universal jurisdiction (Part of CIHL, confirmed by the United Nations Security Council, article 146 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, articles 5 and 6 of the Convention against Torture, etc). This means that countries can arrest people from other countries who are suspected of having committed torture or ill-treatment. Every single state is empowered to arrest, prosecute and extradite alleged perpetrators found on its soil. It doesn't matter where it took place, when it happened or the nationality of either victim or perpetrator. Now of course no-one is going to arrest Bush or Obama, but I know Bush cancelled a trip to Switzerland in 2011 out of fear of being arrested for war crimes and Israeli politicians have done the same with planned trips to the UK. If we're lucky a few of the more minor people involved might make the stupid mistake of going on holiday to Sweden or what have you and face the punishment they richly deserve.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:13 |
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New Division posted:Torture of detainees of interest is probably entirely outsourced to other countries these days instead of just mostly outsourced Not entirely, but...
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:16 |
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How exactly is Guantanamo a secret CIA prison?
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:19 |
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poisonpill posted:It's surprising how well funded everything was. I mean we shut down the space program but spent a billion dollars shoving food up prisoners' butts. I am floored at how much cash flowed so freely. All you need are like forty bucks of wire and a car battery or something Hey you can't put a price on some good buttfooding. Edit: foodbutting. That's a better word. Let's hahstag that.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:19 |
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Party Plane Jones posted:How exactly is Guantanamo a secret CIA prison? It is SOVEREIGN US TERRITORY edit: sounds cooler.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:19 |
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Party Plane Jones posted:How exactly is Guantanamo a secret CIA prison? They had their own secret annex.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:20 |
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Xandu posted:They had their own secret annex. I'm imagining an aluminum shack with a sign that says "SECRET CIA RECTAL-FEEDING UNIT"
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:22 |
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Party Plane Jones posted:How exactly is Guantanamo a secret CIA prison? There's a secret CIV prison inside the non-secret military one. Also an interesting note that the APA had already pointed out these psychologists aren't APA members and they would kick out any members who helped torture: http://www.apa.org/news/press/statements/texas-mitchell-letter.pdf The letter is of course dated 2010.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:25 |
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New Division posted:I'm imagining an aluminum shack with a sign that says "SECRET CIA RECTAL-FEEDING UNIT" Well I'm imagining a future Senate hearing where a CIA operative, digitally obscured to protect his identity, sobs while recounting how much he's suffered from "touching and manipulating all those butts".
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:26 |
pathetic little tramp posted:Hey you can't put a price on some good buttfooding. It's called plugging. The CIA is full of TCC posters, everything is starting to make sense now wheez the roux fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:33 |
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emfive posted:Well I'm imagining a future Senate hearing where a CIA operative, digitally obscured to protect his identity, sobs while recounting how much he's suffered from "touching and manipulating all those butts". I will bet good money that someone in the CIA authored a detailed document on the finer points of butt manipulation.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:34 |
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kustomkarkommando posted:I will bet good money that someone in the CIA authored a detailed document on the finer points of butt manipulation. "Avoiding Clots in your Hummus Bellows: Vol. 1"
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:36 |
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emfive posted:Well I'm imagining a future Senate hearing where a CIA operative, digitally obscured to protect his identity, sobs while recounting how much he's suffered from "touching and manipulating all those butts". A single session which lasted 24/7, ending on august 23'rd 213: Email from: [REDACTED]; to: [REDACTED]; subject: Greetings; date: August 11, 2002, at 09:45AM.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:39 |
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Relevant crosspost: there is absolutely no reason to anally "feed" someone via pureeing an already prepared meal. Nutrient absorption is majorly done in the Stomach/Small Intestine, not the Large Intestine, and doubly so if you're using a puree of already-prepared food instead of a nutrient-rich paste like Ensure. If you really, absolutely have to give someone nutrients without an IV then you shove a feeding tube down their throat and give them that nutrient paste/Ensure via the tube. This is still unpleasant in the best circumstances, and probably qualifies as torture if it's done unwillingly like when it was done in response to the hunger strikes in Guantanamo, but that time at least had a slightly valid justification for being done, namely "preventing the hunger strikers from dying of starvation". What the CIA did to that dude was flat out rape and torture, and nothing is going to be done about it.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 01:54 |
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This new report by Channel 4 in Britain is very timely. Looks like the CIA has been supervising torture in Somalia. http://www.channel4.com/news/somalia-torture-united-states-cia-al-shabaab-video http://www.thenation.com/article/161936/cias-secret-sites-somalia
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 02:12 |
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fade5 posted:Relevant crosspost: there is absolutely no reason to anally "feed" someone via pureeing an already prepared meal. Nutrient absorption is majorly done in the Stomach/Small Intestine, not the Large Intestine, and doubly so if you're using a puree of already-prepared food instead of a nutrient-rich paste like Ensure. Surgeon General on eating rectally posted:And the immediate research shows that the act is not only amusing, but in fact much healthier for our bodies than the old way of eating. You see, food entering
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 02:13 |
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I was about to post something about drone technology being used to swim up the intestines against peristalsis but I simultaneously
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 02:25 |
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A lot of books worth adding to your reading list in this article:quote:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/12/05/i-dont-believe-a-word-of-what-torture-advocates-say-and-neither-should-you/
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 02:52 |
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CommieGIR posted:Hasn't torture been basically proven to be a worthless intelligence tool long before this? Probably around when Galileo gave us the useful intelligence that the sun actually does go around the Earth.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 03:19 |
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Dilkington posted:A lot of books worth adding to your reading list in this article: Good article
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 03:24 |
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If you want evidence that torture produces bad intelligence note the disclosure from this very report that the Iraq War was predicated at least partially on bad intelligence gained by torture.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 03:28 |
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Tezzor posted:If you want evidence that torture produces bad intelligence note the disclosure from this very report that the Iraq War was predicated at least partially on bad intelligence gained by torture.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 03:59 |
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Oh look (I already knew this but), psychologists implicated in profoundly unethical government collusion again? What's that? Psychology isn't rigorous enough to define its own ethical standards? I guess you have a point.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:01 |
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Those who are responsible for these crimes will be prosecuted under the United Nations Convention Against Torture. I believe all accused will be afforded a fair and open trial to determine their guilt or innocence under the United Nations Convention Against Torture, which was ratified by Congress in 1994.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:04 |
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SedanChair posted:Oh look (I already knew this but), psychologists implicated in profoundly unethical government collusion again? What's that? Psychology isn't rigorous enough to define its own ethical standards? I guess you have a point. As the APA letter from 2010 I posted earlier pointed out, had these "psychologist" been a member of the professional association for psychologists they would have clearly violated the ethics guidelines and been kicked out.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:04 |
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:They had laughed when they injected into his butt, but who's laughing now? Still them, since everybody involved is getting away scot free
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:04 |
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The United States of America ratified a UN law preventing us from rendering prisoners to nations which we expected would be tortured. We also tortured some folks ourselves. We will prosecute those responsible for these gross breaches of law and trust. There is going to be a trial and we will convict those who ordered and oversaw torture.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:08 |
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Trabisnikof posted:As the APA letter from 2010 I posted earlier pointed out, had these "psychologist" been a member of the professional association for psychologists they would have clearly violated the ethics guidelines and been kicked out. Yeah and you get to stroll around and be one anyway.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:11 |
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TEAYCHES posted:The United States of America ratified a UN law preventing us from rendering prisoners to nations which we expected would be tortured. We also tortured some folks ourselves. i know you're trolling but it's so removed from the realm of possibility that anyone could believe this it lacks punch
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:11 |
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SedanChair posted:Yeah and you get to stroll around and be one anyway. And there are doctors acting like that too, heck they were at the black sites as well. This isn't the case for pushing your agenda on this one, except in so much as the CIA will hire anyone.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:14 |
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TEAYCHES posted:Those who are responsible for these crimes will be prosecuted under the United Nations Convention Against Torture. I think we all needed a good joke to lighten the mood.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:17 |
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Jagchosis posted:i know you're trolling but it's so removed from the realm of possibility that anyone could believe this it lacks punch The United States of America believes in international cooperation and the rule of law. We will enforce our own laws and hold accountable those who allowed this torture to occur. They will be held accountable through our independent judicial system. This is a testament to a society which holds values in direct opposition to the unfortunate revelations of today.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:18 |
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TEAYCHES posted:The United States of America ratified a UN law preventing us from rendering prisoners to nations which we expected would be tortured. We also tortured some folks ourselves. And as a properly ratified treaty, the UN Convention Against Torture requires Barack Obama and Eric Holder to prosecute those responsible - they have declared that torture did take place. I'm sure that they will carry out their Constitutionally mandated duty to prosecute, at very least because the opposition party is very adamant that the executive carry out Constitutionally obligated laws.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:19 |
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https://www.emptywheel.net/2014/12/08/the-debate-about-torture-were-not-having-exploitation/ This article is worth reading, basically, torture was never about intel, any child can tell that it wouldn't work for that. What it is handy for though is false confessions for when you need "proof" for a Casus Belli or to further political goals and it was also used as an attempt to coerce victims into becoming CIA moles. Which makes sense when you consider the absolute shambles the CIAs Iraq network was in. They were desperate for agents. Its all part of the Western establishments' obsession with control and dominance. This really comes out in the propaganda released when they were still hiding this stuff, it was all portrayed as post-torture scientific and psychological techniques far advanced beyond the brutal methods of the savage nations. Like that quote where hes like "even such a small thing as a family photo" and how its an "art and science". e: And for these things it was incredibly successful, everyone got to make shitloads of money having a war or torturing people and nobody is going to prison. People thinking it wont happen again because this proves it was ineffective or "too costy" are wrong, too costy in particular just means "gave lots of money to rich companies" it is a plus not a minus.
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:20 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:57 |
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Barack Obama Account spotted
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# ? Dec 10, 2014 04:21 |