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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Unlike DnD, report suspected idiocy and I'll actually look into it. Nice. I do find it refreshing that there at least in here there are people who understand that "Yeah, I know that guy had literally 3 seconds to decide whether that Kia Bongo truck speeding towards him ignoring all checkpoint signs and hand signals was a bomb or not...turns out it wasn't. WAR CRIMINAL!" is not really a great approach. The fact there are so many who don't get that has left me not knowing whether or not someone is being sarcastic. This is less than 24 hours after someone in the police reform thread unironically said that if someone is killed in a home invasion, they shouldn't have tried to confront the attacker. Victim blaming is bad...unless I say it's not. The lack of consistent logic is hurting my head.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:43
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ActusRhesus posted:Nice. I do find it refreshing that there at least in here there are people who understand that "Yeah, I know that guy had literally 3 seconds to decide whether that Kia Bongo truck speeding towards him ignoring all checkpoint signs and hand signals was a bomb or not...turns out it wasn't. WAR CRIMINAL!" is not really a great approach. It's even better when you get to meet those people in real life, because then you can't even dismiss it as basement-dwelling internet citizen nonsense. These people exist. And they want justice.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:46
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holocaust bloopers posted:Vasudus didn't like it when I reported Cole for whatever. Obama's America.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:47
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holocaust bloopers posted:Vasudus didn't like it when I reported Cole for whatever. Vasudus didn't always do a good job. 
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Dec 10, 2014 16:47
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Victor Vermis posted:And they want justice. No they don't. Wanting justice makes you a bloodthirsty savage. They want rehabilitation... except when they don't.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:49
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Victor Vermis posted:It's even better when you get to meet those people in real life, because then you can't even dismiss it as basement-dwelling internet citizen nonsense. Pretty liberal use of the term "people" there, Vic. 
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Dec 10, 2014 17:08
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Victor Vermis posted:It's even better when you get to meet those people in real life, because then you can't even dismiss it as basement-dwelling internet citizen nonsense. There was a lady who got the hell beaten out of her again and again in her own home as he was stealing poo poo and he would come back to beat her up again for like 8 soul crushing minutes on a nanny cam. She finally got to a gun and a bunch of goons said she should have just laid there and he wouldnt have to die.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:11
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RonMexicosPitbull posted:There was a lady who got the hell beaten out of her again and again in her own home as he was stealing poo poo and he would come back to beat her up again for like 8 soul crushing minutes on a nanny cam. She finally got to a gun and a bunch of goons said she should have just laid there and he wouldnt have to die. victim blaming is wrong. Except when it isn't.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:12
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RonMexicosPitbull posted:There was a lady who got the hell beaten out of her again and again in her own home as he was stealing poo poo and he would come back to beat her up again for like 8 soul crushing minutes on a nanny cam. She finally got to a gun and a bunch of goons said she should have just laid there and he wouldnt have to die. Please link me to this please. Please. I need to see this with my own eyes.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:13
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Obama Africanus posted:Please link me to this please. Please. It was a few years ago. To be fair some goons called those other guys retarded but it was a legit spirited debate. If you want a form of this just look at any crime/self defense thread. Happens all the time but that time there was a soul crushing video to watch.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:15
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Obama Africanus posted:Please link me to this please. Please. well, not exactly the discussion cited, but this is pretty close: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3646642&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=76
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Dec 10, 2014 17:16
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Holy poo poo, they actually think that it makes them better than everyone else.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:46
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holocaust bloopers posted:Vasudus didn't like it when I reported Cole for whatever. You're not supposed to punish the village idiot for being an idiot, you're supposed to laugh at him. EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:Vasudus didn't always do a good job. But mostly this.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:48
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Holy poo poo at the victim blaming on that woman with her baby getting shot.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:52
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Vasudus posted:You're not supposed to punish the village idiot for being an idiot, you're supposed to laugh at him. You were always my favorite, Vas. Believe it or not.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:54
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I guess I should've put "justice" in quotations. The idea that there are otherwise intelligent people out there who believe that (institution) needs to be purged of EVIL from the bottom-up or outside-in is something I always thought of as being solely in the wheelhouse of anti-govt gun-loving nutjobs, but here we are. "Popular culture oppresses the populace! ...Police officers in the U.S. are treating non-compliance like some kind of crime! ...Human beings are flawed and capable of dishonesty, unless their privilege score is lower than mine! ...Ignoring my stupid reactionary bullshit = insulating yourself in your own white male echo chamber!" I always hoped the country would go left of our current "left". I had no idea that it would be this instead of socialism. loving gross. I can't wait for the police state.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:58
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Handsome Ralph posted:Holy poo poo at the victim blaming on that woman with her baby getting shot. Dead Reckoning posted:If only that baby had just given them his money.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:00
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Victor Vermis posted:I guess I should've put "justice" in quotations.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:13
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I'm just amused by how many people think I'm a dude based on my posts, and the apparent privilege shown therein. I've truly reached equality.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:16
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ActusRhesus posted:I'm just amused by how many people think I'm a dude based on my posts, and the apparent privilege shown therein.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:19
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ActusRhesus posted:I'm just amused by how many people think I'm a dude based on my posts, and the apparent privilege shown therein. My favorite thing about you is that your mere existence and success proves 90% of the poo poo in DnD wrong in such a way they have to escape to a literal fantasy world to cope. If that isn't the funniest loving thing to someone then chances are they're part of The Problem©
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Dec 10, 2014 18:23
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Yes, but don't forget...I'm not actually human.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:25
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I dated a girl who was a lawyer. She was fantastically crazy. Fun to drink with.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:25
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I met a pretty cool lawyer chick today... she was the town prosecutor, banging out traffic violation cases left and right. 
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Dec 10, 2014 18:27
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Spicy Guacamole posted:If it makes you feel any better, these kinds of idiots are just a very vocal minority. I'm sure you could ask any number of random strangers what their thoughts are on X, Y, or Z "social justice" issue and most would say, "what?" That was the point of my previous post, though. Asking people about body image in advertising or a cop choking out a black man on the street while he cried out for air like an animal isn't the same thing as forgetting to ask someone their preferred pronoun. It's not even the same ballpark. I'll grant you the reactions would likely be more tempered than the calls for revolution or whatever that come out of D&D, but "he wasn't even doin nuffin!" is said with equal conviction by the college-educated and middle-aged. It's not a product of youth or perceived oppression, it's from a place of empathy. Doesn't forgive how loving stupid it is. Fix everything. Cunts. edit: I actually have no idea what the problem is, or how to fix it. Victor Vermis fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 18:27
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Victor Vermis posted:Fix poverty. Yeah...this right here would have a huge impact on the criminal justice system. Minorities don't make up a disproportionate number of arrests (and victims for that matter) because cops have nothing better to do than harass brown people, and they don't make up a disproportionate number because they are somehow genetically predisposed to crime. It's because they are overrepresented below the poverty line and are stuck in lovely areas where most crime occurs. Fix that and I think you'd see everything else start to level out. Edit: no, I think you were on to something. A lot of it is poverty.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:32
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Victor Vermis posted:The idea that there are otherwise intelligent people out there who believe that (institution) needs to be purged of EVIL from the bottom-up or outside-in is something I always thought of as being solely in the wheelhouse of anti-govt gun-loving nutjobs, but here we are. Just replace doing EVIL on purpose with doing EVIL out of incompetence, to cover your own rear end, or being to chickenshit to tell the brass their orders/ideas/understanding of the subject at hand are horseshit, and purging becomes much more reasonable. Really a lot of the dumb poo poo people are saying in DnD becomes much more reasonable once you control for Hanlon's razor, and find&replace accordingly. quote:Yeah...this right here would have a huge impact on the criminal justice system. Minorities don't make up a disproportionate number of arrests (and victims for that matter) because cops have nothing better to do than harass brown people, and they don't make up a disproportionate number because they are somehow genetically predisposed to crime. So what you are saying is that the Browns are more criminal than the Whites? That's pretty loving racist IMO. Check your privilege. 
Courthouse fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 18:40
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ActusRhesus posted:Yeah...this right here would have a huge impact on the criminal justice system. Minorities don't make up a disproportionate number of arrests (and victims for that matter) because cops have nothing better to do than harass brown people, and they don't make up a disproportionate number because they are somehow genetically predisposed to crime. Pretty insensitive to poor people IMO.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:42
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Racism is a huge part of it too though. Growing up, I could walk around town high as hell no problem while my ~black friend~ who is a total boyscout got pulled over routinely and given the fifth degree for a variety of nonexistent "traffic violations" that somehow strangely never resulted in even a ticket. I was a complete fuckhead and he was like modelcitizen.wmv and yet he was meeting the police routinely and I never was. Black people don't do drugs more than white people but they definitely get arrested a hell of a lot more, despite being a tiny fraction of the population. And on the shootings front, there was a guy in my unit who went nuts with a shotgun in an arby's parking lot. He is still alive (and not even in prison), and completely coincidentally, white as all hell. Compare that to what happens when a black child is somewhere near a firearm and a police officer simultaneously. I'm not saying all cops are racist, but who cops take action on is going to be a function of, in part, who are cops around, and we put the cops around black people much more than we put them around even equally poor white people. If cops pulled over white college kids to the extent they pulled over poor black people and routinely didn't give white people a second chance or benefit of the doubt, we'd see a lot more equality. And that might be the more realistic path to fixing things. Treating black people like white people has not caught on, maybe we should look into treating white people like black people. Best Friends fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 18:48
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Best Friends posted:Racism is a huge part of it too though. Growing up, I could walk around town high as hell no problem while my ~black friend~ who is a total boyscout got pulled over routinely and given the fifth degree for a variety of nonexistent "traffic violations" that somehow strangely never resulted in even a ticket. I was a complete fuckhead and he was like modelcitizen.wmv and yet he was meeting the police routinely and I never was. Black people don't do drugs more than white people but they definitely get arrested a hell of a lot more, despite being a tiny fraction of the population. And on the shootings front, there was a guy in my unit who went nuts with a shotgun in an arby's parking lot. He is still alive, and completely coincidentally, white as all hell. Compare that to what happens when a black child is somewhere near a firearm and a police officer simultaneously. I'm not saying all cops are racist, but who cops take action on is going to be a function of, in part, who are cops around, and we put the cops around black people much more than we put them around even equally poor white people. Oh yeah...but that's a different question that often gets roped in with the first. I see "why are more blacks in jail" which has more to do with poverty than alleged wrongful convictions as a separate issue from "why does the black community have trouble trusting the police" which in a lot of parts of the country is the product of institutionalized racism. They're two completely different issues, both of which warrant being looked at, but when you confuse the two you get "Cops are all racist and jails are full of innocent victims" which is not really helpful. It's possible to believe BOTH that we need to improve race relations in a lot of parts of the country AND that prisons are not teeming with the wrongfully convicted. AND that if blacks are targeted unfairly it may have to do more with subconscious effects of a society that still has some institutionalized racism than consciously racist cops.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:55
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ActusRhesus posted:Yeah...this right here would have a huge impact on the criminal justice system. Minorities don't make up a disproportionate number of arrests (and victims for that matter) because cops have nothing better to do than harass brown people, and they don't make up a disproportionate number because they are somehow genetically predisposed to crime. I agree with this completely, I just didn't want it to seem like I was implying fixing poverty would fix the thing I'm trying to draw a bead on here, which is this weird persecution-complex that a broad spectrum of people, who are admittedly not actually being persecuted, seem to be buying into. Courthouse posted:Just replace doing EVIL on purpose with doing EVIL out of incompetence, to cover your own rear end, or being to chickenshit to tell the brass their orders/ideas/understanding of the subject at hand are horseshit, and purging becomes much more reasonable. Yeah I get that. But when the rhetoric is coming from places other than my online nerd community I have to wonder if I've somehow become a racist old white male caricature overnight without even realizing it. It's the sort of existential crisis that contributed to my enlisting 10 years ago. Lo and behold, people aren't malicious, they're just kinda dumb and riding the wave of U.S. public opinion that always seems to put low-wage-earning idealistic saps into no-win situations and then crucifies them for it. Who, for example, would want to be a police officer at this point? Or even a politician?
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Dec 10, 2014 19:00
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Best Friends posted:Treating black people like white people has not caught on, maybe we should look into treating white people like black people.  America already leads the world in incarcerations, you gotta leave someone on the outside man. But as for the racism. I think the answer is that overt racism is pretty much gone or at least driven underground. What we are left with is prejudice, which is a whole nother can of worms. Many of these shootings were questions of police officers making split second decisions on whether they were under serious threat or not. And there is a pattern of officers feeling more threatened when a black kid puts his hand in his pocket than when a white kid does. Part of that is experience, personal or passed on. Because blacks are more likely to be poor or otherwise in social positions more conducive to violent crime, they are in fact more likely to have a weapon to pull. Which in turn leads to a lot of activity becoming "suspect" in the eyes of the law. As a socialist I'd probably categorize a lot of this as class warfare rather than race, but with the two overlapping to the degree they do it's hard to differentiate. I don't think cop reform is the answer. (although not trying to LARP military occupation of Iraq would help) What is needed is much broader, more boring, and hard to define, social progress. But such things are incredibly hard and slow, measured in generations and often suffering several setbacks and dead ends. And not something you can accomplish through a few campus sit ins and the occasional riot, but rather through the measured and dedicated action of the adult generations everyday actions throughout their lives. I:E Cspan stuff. quote:Yeah I get that. But when the rhetoric is coming from places other than my online nerd community I have to wonder if I've somehow become a racist old white male caricature overnight without even realizing it. My personal take on a lot of this, from various professions I've been in, is that the public is often right on the poo poo that needs to change but bad at identifying why those things are happening in the first place. And apart from telling you how much I hate the media of several different nations and political camps, I honestly don't have much productive to say on how to fix that.  Courthouse fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 19:06
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Best Friends posted:maybe we should look into treating people like people. ftfy
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Dec 10, 2014 19:06
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This is kinda a side step, but I was at the VA today to have my weekly "not gonna kill myself today" check up, and as always, set up camp in the waiting room. So I grabbed this National Geographic magazine that had an interesting article advertised on the cover about Hatshepsut, this Egyptian queen who said gently caress you to her step son and took the throne for herself... It wasn't near as awesome as it sounded. But what was was a poo poo ton of letters to the editor about a story in a previous issue about King Herod. For those of you who don't know biblical history, Herod launched the second most ineffective infanticide campaign in history. He also was a prolific developer and pushed society farther into the future than anyone else to that point since Solomon. Like all effective leaders, he built, maintained and advanced an empire on the two things that create successful empires. Progressive thought and bloodshed. So anyway. Most of these letters were a bunch of D&D pearl clutchers who basically poo poo all over him. One going so far as to say "We don't need leaders who advance civilization at the cost of murder and evil". So basically we should be living in caves and making GBS threads in a stream. Because advancement and evolution should not come at the cost of humanity. Said by someone who has a magazine subscription and probably reads by light provided through electricity, and didn't die at a young age because they weren't mauled by a saber toothed tiger. Yep. I almost don't want to spoil the best part. The accounts of him committing infanticide are solely regulated to The Book of Matthew. Which means they were a bunch of angry Christians. D&D and blindly following Christians, trying to drag us back to the stone age, one whining letter at a time.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:06
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Victor Vermis posted:It's the sort of existential crisis that contributed to my enlisting 10 years ago. Lo and behold, people aren't malicious, they're just kinda dumb and riding the wave of U.S. public opinion that always seems to put low-wage-earning idealistic saps into no-win situations and then crucifies them for it. Who, for example, would want to be a police officer at this point? Or even a politician? I think most who go into law enforcement sincerely want to do public service and to them, that trumps the bull poo poo they will put up with as a result. It's not surprising that just like military you see a lot of "cop families." This isn't to say some cops aren't assholes. Some people are assholes in all fields. But if you asked most whether they joined to trample the rights of their fellow citizen, or whether they joined to serve the community... but people who don't get that will never get that because the biggest contribution they will make to society is some bullshit on twitter. They've never felt compelled to be a part of something bigger than themselves, or to serve the greater good, and that, on some level, probably makes them realize what a self centered little poo poo they are. Even my most liberal true believer public defender friends respect the cops (as an institution...obviously if there's a case of individual misconduct that's a whole different story) because they are also serving the public...even if in an adversarial role. The point is, they have both chosen public service. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 19:09
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It's almost as if people are too busy trying to score irrelevant political points for their "team" instead of having an adult conversation about the very real problems in our society.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:10
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:Vasudus didn't always do a good job. Talk about victim blaming...
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Dec 10, 2014 19:39
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ActusRhesus posted:I think most who go into law enforcement sincerely want to do public service and to them, that trumps the bull poo poo they will put up with as a result. It's not surprising that just like military you see a lot of "cop families." How do you reconcile most cops choosing that profession out of a genuine desire to serve the public and the consistent closing of ranks when one of them does the opposite? Doesn't seem like it can be both without a shitton of cognitive dissonance.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:40
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:It's almost as if people are too busy trying to score irrelevant political points for their "team" instead of having an adult conversation about the very real problems in our society. I was wondering why it is still called Debate and Discussion when any time you ask a question or discuss something someone jumps in to poo poo all over you, tell you how stupid you are and pick apart your sentence word by word to try and trap you.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:41
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DnD's problem as far as I see it is that I could go into a thread and just say "George W. Bush is a war criminal and we should drag him to the Hague in chains and if you disagree you're literally Hitler" and folks will cheerlead me on, but if you respond to me with "that's insane" folks dogpile you with "well where's your peer-reviewed study to show that it's insane? MLA-citations only please  ". And then you get accused of trolling or derailing the thread by pointing out that what people are saying is insane.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:51
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