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PeterWeller posted:I'm not so sure about that. Force weapons can't ID Kharn, and barring magic support, Meph is gonna need 4s to hit him. Meanwhile, Kharn always hits on 2s, will wound on 3s, and Gorechild is AP2, so no artificer armor save. With Mephiston having access to a power that grants him S10 and higher I, odds are he'll ID Kharn before everyone's favorite crazy murderer gets to swing. I really think Kharn should either get EW or a 2+ armor (and a corresponding bump in price). Either that or a Yarrick-style "I'm not dead yet!" special rule. You dont get to be 10 thousand years old in this line of work without at least _some_ defenses.
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Dec 10, 2014 01:17
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Moola posted:I once threw an entire BFG fleet in the bin It wasn't yours, right?
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Dec 10, 2014 01:32
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I was going to write about how I though the Tau Barracuda looks really neat with the updated Taros Campaign rules, but really I think it's a bit lacklustre. The Ion Cannon isn't Twin Linked and with 2HP, the Overcharged shot is Gets Hot! so it's a real risk, although the 60" range is better than the Thunderbolt's fixed armament, but still within Skystrike Missile range which IS (effectively) twin-linked and S8. The Missile Launcher is twin linked, but is only two shots at 36" and still S7 which means you are probably still glancing other flyers to death. Long Barrelled Burst Cannons might as well be a defensive weapons, because they are going to probably glance at best, although auto-targeting is nice I guess. Seeker Missiles at 8 points are nice, because it's effectively Hellstrike Missiles for cheaper at a higher BS. I guess the best advantage is that it's 50 points cheaper than the stock Thunderbolt AND at BS4. It looks like a blend of the Thunderbolt and the Lightning, not quite as sturdy as a Thunderbolt but still carrying a fair payload. The last critique I could make is that Agile is purely defensive, which does work against the strengths of the Barracuda, namely laying the hurt down.
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Dec 10, 2014 01:32
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PeterWeller posted:That's what I thought they'd do. Aha, but GW outsmarted you by making a poor marketing/production choice! Who's the fool now, eh? Sephyr posted:With Mephiston having access to a power that grants him S10 and higher I, odds are he'll ID Kharn before everyone's favorite crazy murderer gets to swing. Force Weapons can never inflict ID on Kharn, even if they're double his toughness. It's not unreasonable to expect Mephy to push enough attacks through to kill him the old-fashioned way, but with hitting on 4s that's far from a guarantee. Kharn is a total glass cannon and I'm fine with that. Anything he gets to swing at he kills, but his defenses are only slightly above that of a regular sergeant otherwise. The real dream would be charging a Knight with him, 'cause he's got a very good chance to basically kill it by himself. Leo Showers posted:I was going to write about how I though the Tau Barracuda looks really neat with the updated Taros Campaign rules, but really I think it's a bit lacklustre. The Ion Cannon isn't Twin Linked and with 2HP, the Overcharged shot is Gets Hot! so it's a real risk, although the 60" range is better than the Thunderbolt's fixed armament, but still within Skystrike Missile range which IS (effectively) twin-linked and S8. The Missile Launcher is twin linked, but is only two shots at 36" and still S7 which means you are probably still glancing other flyers to death. Long Barrelled Burst Cannons might as well be a defensive weapons, because they are going to probably glance at best, although auto-targeting is nice I guess. Seeker Missiles at 8 points are nice, because it's effectively Hellstrike Missiles for cheaper at a higher BS. The Barracuda is actually pretty good- remember that with Agile and Disruption Pod, it's got a 2+ Jink save and for 5pts you can get it a 4++ against Interceptor shots if you're really worried. Using the overcharge on the Ion is risky, to be sure, but there are solutions to that as well- two Markerlights brings it to BS6, which lets it reroll the Gets Hot check (and also means you'll pretty much always land it where you want it.) It's got some of the best anti-air around (five S7 shots, two of them twin-linked, plus six S5 shots or Seekers) these days and is also an effective ground-attack platform. Sure, it's fragile as hell, but when you're Jinking it's pretty hard to hurt. Basically, it's a flyer that is actually fair and balanced for its cost, rather than being a complete monster (like the old Heldrake) or garbage (like the Nephelim and company.)
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Dec 10, 2014 01:59
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AbusePuppy posted:Kharn is a total glass cannon and I'm fine with that. Anything he gets to swing at he kills, but his defenses are only slightly above that of a regular sergeant otherwise. The real dream would be charging a Knight with him, 'cause he's got a very good chance to basically kill it by himself. Yeah, I like Kharn the way he is. The knight scenario would be great. Hope that battle cannon doesn't hit him before he gets into CC. 
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Dec 10, 2014 02:18
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So I have a single metal model--Vulkan He'Stan. I see that I can get one in resin now from Games Workshop's website. Am I a heretic for wanting to have a plastic model instead of a metal model?
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Dec 10, 2014 06:04
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You say that as though you'd be getting a plastic one and not a resin one with half his face missing.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:09
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Star Man posted:Am I a heretic for wanting to have a plastic model instead of a metal model? Yes. You don't deserve a metal one. Give it to me. please?
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Dec 10, 2014 06:19
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BlackIronHeart posted:Yes. You don't deserve a metal one. Give it to me. If I go through with it, I'll let you know.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:30
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Star Man posted:If I go through with it, I'll let you know. The resin that Games Workshop use (finecast) is largely derided and considered to be of a generally poor quality. Most people would prefer the metal versions.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:45
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Cataphract posted:The resin that Games Workshop use (finecast) is largely derided and considered to be of a generally poor quality. Most people would prefer the metal versions. I always hear how finecast is such crap, but I personally have had way better luck with finecast vs. metal versions. That's just personal experience though, I could have just been very lucky.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:01
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I'll sometimes go out of my way to find a metal version of an older model on ebay rather than deal with finecast. It's typically cheaper too. Finecast can be really, really awful, but I've had the occasional perfect model.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:13
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Finecast is better for models like Zoanthropes that are really top heavy and when you want to convert something more easily since it's much easier to cut. Finecast QA has gotten a lot better but it's still way more likely to be miscast than the metal version.
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Dec 10, 2014 07:24
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Even if you assume a perfect sculpt, Finecast is still poo poo because it has absolutely no strength in it. Vulkan's spear will break. His fancy flame thing will snap off. The stuff doesn't even have to snap, it tears under pressure.
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Dec 10, 2014 08:05
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Even if you assume a perfect sculpt, Finecast is still poo poo because it has absolutely no strength in it. Vulkan's spear will break. His fancy flame thing will snap off. The stuff doesn't even have to snap, it tears under pressure. My sausage fingers result in dropping more models on the floor than I care to admit. That being said, in my limited experience, finecast has fared better than metal for me.
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Dec 10, 2014 08:13
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Slimnoid posted:Yeah yeah I know 4chan, but looks like the guy has the book so it seems legit. 4chan does make it less credible, but you never know. Ghost Hand posted:drat you to Hell!
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Dec 10, 2014 13:20
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HiveCommander posted:It's not surprising to have the book this early. I got the GK codex on the Tuesday before it was meant to be released. Also Uriah Jacobus, one of your only two remaining named characters? He's with the Inquisition now
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Dec 10, 2014 13:42
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Cataphract posted:The resin that Games Workshop use (finecast) is largely derided and considered to be of a generally poor quality. Most people would prefer the metal versions. "Most" is a bit of an overstatement, I think. Quite a lot of people, myself included, loathe metal models with a passion and will take pretty much anything over them.
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Dec 10, 2014 14:14
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Metal models are just huge pains in the rear end in so many ways.
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Dec 10, 2014 14:29
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Finally decided to paint up my servo skull commissar. He's beautiful and I'll post pictures tomorrow(err, tonight? I stayed up too late) when I've finished him. Any good/funny basing ideas for it? He's sitting on a curved piece of paperclip coming out of a 25mm base.
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Dec 10, 2014 14:36
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Improbable Lobster posted:Metal models are just huge pains in the rear end in so many ways. But that's not how you're supposed to use them 
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Dec 10, 2014 15:06
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Cataphract posted:The resin that Games Workshop use (finecast) is largely derided and considered to be of a generally poor quality. Most people would prefer the metal versions. AbusePuppy posted:"Most" is a bit of an overstatement, I think. Quite a lot of people, myself included, loathe metal models with a passion and will take pretty much anything over them. Devil and the deep blue sea, really
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Dec 10, 2014 15:19
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Looks like my Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armor is unusable now, which I guess is fine since you can only really use one Sanguinary Priest without taking up all your HQ slots.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:16
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Man I wish CSM was just a 'better' army. They're my favorite to play but I can only handle watching my units fold to Serpent Shields for so many games before it stops being fun.
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Dec 10, 2014 16:16
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panascope posted:Man I wish CSM was just a 'better' army. They're my favorite to play but I can only handle watching my units fold to Serpent Shields for so many games before it stops being fun. I don't even care about being competitive, I just want faction-specific rules and FOCs.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:08
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TheChirurgeon posted:I don't even care about being competitive, I just want faction-specific rules and FOCs. Yeah, me too. Plague termies and rubric termies could cost 59 points each and never ever make their points back, but if they had fun rules I'd still buy them and field them. I guess there'll be legion-specific formations and not much else, in the future. Death Guard will likely be a Nurgle Lord/Nurgle sorcerer, 4 units of plague marines and a couple of terminator squads, and for that you get a 4+ FNP and -1 pentaly on enemy Fear tests, but no Objective Secured on anything.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:25
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I have got a few finecast kits and I have loved them all. Some I bought and some I got second hand NIB or used models. I feel like the venom the internet has is based on the first few months and some faked pictures a guy released. Nerds will be nerds. In other news did anyone else see Kranon's Helguard? quote:FORMATION You have to buy some things people don't like, such as chosen, raptors, helbrute and a landraider but those things are not super bad, just sub optimal. The -1 ld is acceptable since you cause fear but -1 BS is actually kinda good, though it's not likely to come into play much. I suppose the landraider (with chosen or termies inside) will always reduce melta guns (apparently lovely) probability to hit. Here is a question though... Do you use codex supplement Crimson Slaughter? That would dictate what upgrades the Lord would take. It makes 100% sense to say yes, since this is a detachment to get you to use CS models and Kranon is a named CS lord, but it does not really say you can...
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Dec 10, 2014 17:33
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will blow your mind.
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WhiteOutMouse posted:I have got a few finecast kits and I have loved them all. Some I bought and some I got second hand NIB or used models. I feel like the venom the internet has is based on the first few months and some faked pictures a guy released. Nerds will be nerds. Almost every finecast model I've bought had both warped parts that had to be carefully reshaped and details that had to be hand carved because they were covered in extra casting material. I like that the material is lighter and easier to cut, but the quality concerns are real. The only finecast models I've had that didn't have this problem were an obliterator squad I bought. Sometimes the material is itself the problem--my finecast Chaos Lord with Jump Pack broke at the base because the material couldn't support the weight of the model at that connection point, and getting the model glued back together on 2 tiny connection points is basically a lost cause.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:38
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Suffering a -1 to BS can be crippling for Orks, Nids, DE and even some Guard. Sure, the big guns are usually farther away than that, but basically anything in Rapid Fire range will have shooting poorly. Orks will basically snap-shot all the time from up close, others will becomes ork-level marksmen. Even Tau will sweat a bit once you remove their sources of markerlights, and need to sped more markers for the same result. Might be fun to try for Machine curse with a sorcerer to stack Gets Hot on top of the penalty, but at that point it's already way too rigid a list.
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Dec 10, 2014 17:52
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Really the only thing that sticks out as completely terrible in that list is the Raider, and only because it's a points sink in a huge way. Not completely terribad actually. The - 1bs would help raptors a lot and it'd hurt Marines badly as they already have a tiny number of shots relatively (average tac squad has an output of 20 shots approx max, if only 10 hit then that sucks)
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Dec 10, 2014 18:27
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panascope posted:Man I wish CSM was just a 'better' army. They're my favorite to play but I can only handle watching my units fold to Serpent Shields for so many games before it stops being fun. So we can all agree here that the REAL problem is not CSM but instead the bullsh#t Serpent Shields? Wave Serpents =/= Fun to play against.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:47
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Stanyer89 posted:So we can all agree here that the REAL problem is not CSM but instead the bullsh#t Serpent Shields? Wave Serpents =/= Fun to play against. The basic CSM Troop (Chaos Space Marine) is pretty bad in all honesty. They can get swept fairly easily and in comparison to their loyalist brothers with ATSKNF... they just don't stack up. Plus the forced challenge (though I think it is fun in general) can really cause them problems. However, I agree above that the real problem vs. Eldar is the Wave Serpents. Eldar is a codex that is AMAZING if you play it.. and AMAZINGLY FRUSTRATING to play against. I have said numerous times that I think the other codexes aren't so much the problem, as the Eldar (and to a degree the Tau) codexes are just overpowered. Take for example the much maligned Tyranid Codex... Tyranids vs Marines = Fun Tyranids vs Dark Angels = Fun Tyranids vs Orks = Fun Tyranids vs CSM = Fun Tyranids vs Necrons = Fun Tyranids vs Dark Eldar.... tough but can be fun Tyranids vs Tau = Not fun. Tyranids vs Eldar = An uphill slog that is no fun at all This has been my experience anyway. I really like my Tyranid army, but if I get a hint of the last two codexes in my opponent, I will just play something else.
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Dec 10, 2014 18:54
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Ghost Hand posted:The basic CSM Troop (Chaos Space Marine) is pretty bad in all honesty. They can get swept fairly easily and in comparison to their loyalist brothers with ATSKNF... they just don't stack up. Plus the forced challenge (though I think it is fun in general) can really cause them problems. Agree with all of this except I would not say the Eldar codex as a whole is overpowered, just one particular unit. Once you pop the Wave Serpents its more or less GG for them, but you have to do it early in the game and almost tailor your army to do so and from the "fun" perspective of the game, when you have to tailor your list you now do not get to bring the units that you really enjoy playing, but more of what you now HAVE to play to do any sort of damage to your opponent. Stanyer89 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 19:01
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I haven't played against eldar since their most recent codex. What do wave serpent shields do that is crazy op?
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Dec 10, 2014 19:03
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They cunch you, pretty much.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:08
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Ignite Memories posted:I haven't played against eldar since their most recent codex. What do wave serpent shields do that is crazy op? Being able to move a scoring unit an utterly insane amount like 48 inches in a single turn while ignoring all terrain along the way and getting a 3+ cover save with holo-fields or something is sooo fun to play against. I mean yeah that is how the army plays but at the same time its just not fun to play against. Stanyer89 fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 19:11
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The shield is 1+d6 strength 6, twin linked, ignores cover shots. If not fired in the last shooting phase, it can reduce penetrating hits to glances. This is on top of having other guns that rend. Plus its a fast skimmer so it can fire all guns at full BS. It also can get a bonus to jink, so even if you do manage to damage it, it will ignore most results. One or two isn't bad, but when you go against four or five of them, plus a wraithknight or two, it can be a lesson in frustration.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:12
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My next game plan is to bring an unbound list of 6 Chapter Masters w/ Artificer Armour, TH, Shield Eternal on bikes and Orbital Bombard the ever living piss out of them.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:17
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Ignite Memories posted:I haven't played against eldar since their most recent codex. What do wave serpent shields do that is crazy op? Lots of factors. They are a fast AV12 skimmer so they can kite well and are non-trivial to take out because they can jink for a 4+ cover. They have a 36" scatter laser that once it hits causes all other shooting to be twin linked, specifically the d6 S7 60" ignore cover shield that can be fired every round. If they don't fire the shield they ignore the vehicle damage table on a 2+ so they pretty much always get to shoot a full capacity. And now they are scoring and obsec makes it so you really can't ignore them. Also because it's a dedicated transport you can get a pile of them on the table, and have a good linebacker type unit in wraithknights to keep close combat jerks off of you for a few rounds. 5 serpents/3 wraithknights/mantle-autarch is totally a strong list that needs to be considered in any list building for over a year.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:17
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Like I said before, if you drop the side armor on the Wave Serpents to 11 they'd probably be much more balanced. There biggest strength isn't the shield, it's that there hard as hell to kill.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:28
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