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TooMuchAbstraction posted:The trick with wizards is to grant yourself uncontrolled polymorphitis and a gigantic pile of negative gold and then trounce your way through the Castle as a queen bee, fatally stinging every single monster in the place in a single attack. This is solid proof that speedrunners are a queer lot, and tool-assisted runners lie somewhere on the autism scale; the colossal amount of effort they put into this could literally build a boat. It's also totally unimpressive from an accomplishment point of view, as they are 'cheating' to the point of re-rolling the RNG on every single turn until it lets them do what they want.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:49
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Serephina posted:This is solid proof that speedrunners are a queer lot, and tool-assisted runners lie somewhere on the autism scale; the colossal amount of effort they put into this could literally build a boat. It's also totally unimpressive from an accomplishment point of view, as they are 'cheating' to the point of re-rolling the RNG on every single turn until it lets them do what they want. Actually it's really cool.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:53
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Serephina posted:This is solid proof that speedrunners are a queer lot, and tool-assisted runners lie somewhere on the autism scale; the colossal amount of effort they put into this could literally build a boat. It's also totally unimpressive from an accomplishment point of view, as they are 'cheating' to the point of re-rolling the RNG on every single turn until it lets them do what they want. Obsessiveness doesn't imply autism, but yeah, the amount of effort going into this is pretty mindboggling. I've tried to TAS games before and always gave up after generating at most a minute's worth of gameplay; there's just too much to keep track of in any remotely interesting game, and the process is frankly rather tedious if you don't have the right mindset. I look at TASers as people who like taking puzzle-solving to extremes. You have a gigantic ruleset, tons of variables to keep track of, and a positively massive problem space, and you're still going to try to find the optimal solution? Good luck, buddy!
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Dec 10, 2014 04:24
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Serephina posted:It's also totally unimpressive from an accomplishment point of view, as they are 'cheating' to the point of re-rolling the RNG on every single turn until it lets them do what they want. You could not be more wrong. It's not impressive from a gameplay point of view, but TASes like this rely on an intimate understanding of how the game works internally and how to manipulate it to get exactly the results you want, not just blindly rerolling until you get a good result. Good TASes are jawdropping accomplishments of planning and reverse engineering.
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Dec 10, 2014 05:10
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I'm not sure I care about RL TASes (the games just aren't that interesting to watch, as far as I'm concerned), but going back to what I talked about yesterday, I'll watch the hell out of a Doom TAS. Different strokes.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:00
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The people with Doom records are already pretty much robots so I'm not sure how much more a TAS could actually accomplish. There are some pixel perfect clipping tricks but individual level records already use them.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:04
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Jordan7hm posted:I'm not sure I care about RL TASes (the games just aren't that interesting to watch, as far as I'm concerned), but going back to what I talked about yesterday, I'll watch the hell out of a Doom TAS. Different strokes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBDmwYXJ_dA here you go, a real person speedrunning the best and also hardest Doom level set
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Dec 10, 2014 06:07
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dis astranagant posted:The people with Doom records are already pretty much robots so I'm not sure how much more a TAS could actually accomplish. There are some pixel perfect clipping tricks but individual level records already use them. Pretty significant improvements in some areas. Also, it allows them to play with the RNG to get more favorable results (in the case of full built demos). Obviously some levels are already optimized to such an extent that no improvement is possible. The greatest improvements in TAS vs non-TAS would be in episodic runs, because death is no longer a concern, and you can use riskier strategies.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:09
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Yeah a lot of levels could potentially be sped up in consecutive runs, since there's stuff you can carry between levels that might shave 10 seconds off a future level even if it means spending an extra 2 seconds on a previous level, or something.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:14
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icantfindaname posted:...hardest Doom level set Haha, nowhere near it. I clicked on that link expecting to see Sunder or something (probably not actually the hardest but you could at least make a case). Not that speedrunning Plutonia in real time isn't respectable.
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Dec 10, 2014 06:37
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Serephina posted:This is solid proof that speedrunners are a queer lot, and tool-assisted runners lie somewhere on the autism scale; the colossal amount of effort they put into this could literally build a boat. It's also totally unimpressive from an accomplishment point of view, as they are 'cheating' to the point of re-rolling the RNG on every single turn until it lets them do what they want. Besides that, the guy making this TAS is the guy who maintains nethack4, which is probably the best modern variant of nethack. I'm pretty sure a lot more effort goes into that, than into this TAS project. It's really unfair to accuse this of being unimpressive, or the people behind it of somehow being "autistic" (why do goons always say that about people).
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Dec 10, 2014 15:02
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I should also note that specifically with the NetHack TAS, they have TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 15:11
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I don't know about you guys but dancing in mystical RNG-placating circles around the confused Oracle while repeatedly petrifying a friendly nymph and ending up with a ludicrously bad alignment, getting millions of antigold for infinite carry weight, turning into an angry bee and slaughtering an entire castle to get rid of all that negative alignment, and then deliberately annoying a god into forgiving more than he normally would was one of the funniest sequences of baffling game exploitation I've ever read. I also lost it at the shopkeeper trying to charge the protagonist for eating the corpse of a demon off the floor of his shop, despite the fact that said demon teleported into said shop and was then beaten to death with an empty lamp by said protagonist.
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Dec 10, 2014 15:13
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Bumping into walls 750 times a second in order to gently caress with the RNG is rad. Also finding ways to avoid RNG jitter is cool and clear evidence that they can't just effortlessly reroll RNG to their favor all the time.
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Dec 10, 2014 15:16
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The nethack RNG is notoriously vulnerable to manipulation, so much so that the public nethack.alt.org server has a custom patch applied to it after some crazy abuse by people running tools on a local copy to predict the next roll. Recorded runs are probably still available with a bit of googling.
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Dec 10, 2014 15:37
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Speaking of autism, Dungeonmans guy, congrats on the final release of your game! The product descriptions still all say "get Early Access to Dungeonmans" tho, so you should fix that
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Dec 10, 2014 16:05
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http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation An interesting read on "what the hell is a roguelike?"
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Dec 10, 2014 19:52
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The link that launched a thousand flamewars.
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Dec 10, 2014 19:55
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I'll never understand why this topic fascinates this thread so much  It's trying to pin jello to a wall.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:15
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victrix posted:I'll never understand why this topic fascinates this thread so much It's because "roguelike" is a subgenre rather than a genre, so it's really hard to define what games are actually in the thread's scope. Honestly if it feels roguelike-y, whatever that means to you personally, it's probably okay to talk about it in the thread. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 20:29
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victrix posted:I'll never understand why this topic fascinates this thread so much There's not all that much else to talk about. It's fine, the last couple times we've had the discussion nobody has gone nutty about it like in the previous thread, so whatever.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:31
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Kubla Khan posted:http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation x-com ironman fulfills more of the high value factors than crawl (x-com ironman is pretty drat close to a roguelike if it's not one)
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Dec 10, 2014 20:32
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Does anyone have a working version of Decker? I know it's kind of a terrible game, but it's simple, relatively transparent, and I just reread the LP. I downloaded the source code from SourceForge (since the creator's site is apparently dead), but when I try to start the Decker.EXE in the /bin directory, I get code:Edit Wait, never mind, figured it out. So this post isn't completely useless, did anyone ever make any not-atrocious skins?
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Dec 10, 2014 21:52
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please someone gift me deadnauts please it looks so awesome oh god its done right yes its from those assholes that made zafehouse diaries but holy crap it looks awesome i want to space marine all night loooong http://deadnaut.com/ http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/12/11/deadnaut-pc-game/
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Dec 11, 2014 13:05
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I will now completely ignore the "define a roguelike" discussion and ask a question: Is this here the place where I can find the most recent version of Caves of Qud, and if not - could someone please provide me with a link? I want to give the game a try. (well, another try, since the first time I tried it I exited the local map to the world map and the screen went batshit insane with random symbols and the game was basically unplayable)
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Dec 11, 2014 18:41
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Jenx posted:I will now completely ignore the "define a roguelike" discussion and ask a question: That's the latest public version, but you're welcome to try the private beta: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vlkzatq58yqkdl5/AAAybqz-6WaBp4NxZysLq2A8a?dl=0 Batshit insane with random symbols just sounds like what the world map looks like. Unormal fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 18:46
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Unormal posted:That's the latest public version, but you're welcome to try the private beta: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vlkzatq58yqkdl5/AAAybqz-6WaBp4NxZysLq2A8a?dl=0 Well, unless they are also supposed to rapidly change color and sift between several symbols (and follow me along as i move through the less LSD-driven terrain), I think it might have been a problem with the map not generating properly. Thank you for the link though!
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Dec 11, 2014 19:12
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Bought this dungeonmans game and it is good.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:39
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Sproggiwood beta of the holiday patch live: [Beta] *Full controller support! *Holiday quest! *Enthralled chargers will now charge enemies *Fixed issue with UI disappearing while decorating *Fixed building upgrade and downgrade actions being incorrectly shown *Fixed builder placement being slightly different between decorate and final locations *Fixed exception in frostball *Fixed positioning of base wizard hat *Fixed player animations sometimes playing behind other animations *Fixed building upgrade overlay z-distance being too large *Fixed monsters sometimes spawning in the middle of the river
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Dec 12, 2014 06:10
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Backed this Dungeonmans game on Kickstarter, still not received steam key, has anyone or is MadjackMcmadman sick and insane from the pressure still>
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Dec 12, 2014 14:30
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I haven't backed or bought Dungeonmans (yet!), but going by this post I'd guess you ought to have received a key already. Otherwise you might need to give MadJackMcMad a shout.
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Dec 12, 2014 14:53
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I received a steam key months ago. May 28th to be exact. Check your email / spam folders. It was a humble bundle code that redeemed on steam.
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Dec 12, 2014 15:02
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Ah right thanks so did I and then forgot all about it
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Dec 12, 2014 15:12
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The Ground Gives Way finally updated again after about half a year: http://www.thegroundgivesway.com/devblog/ Now has a proper lighting system, new and fixed stuff abounds---definitely riding high in that list with good company like Brogue and Forays into Norrendrin.
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Dec 12, 2014 15:15
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ExiledTinkerer posted:The Ground Gives Way finally updated again after about half a year: http://www.thegroundgivesway.com/devblog/ Whoah, this looks cool as heck and I'd never heard of it before. Thank you for posting about it here! Gonna give it a try right now, I think. e: On an unrelated Caves of Qud tangent, are cudgels unfinished or incompletely implemented, or am I just using them totally wrong? I had a freakishly mighty, uber-tough chimera quad-wielding cudgels with every cudgel skill and I was still taking ages to kill anything. Slog ended up slowly beating me to death because I was sick of taking 100 years to defeat crabs. Meanwhile my axe-machine characters slaughter everything right quick, and making an Agility-stacking short blade specialist is just nuts because you obliterate absolutely any creature you meet in like 2 turns and never get hit in melee, so you basically just need the +5 ranged DV skill and some decent armour and you can sprint through ranged fire to disintegrate everything you touch. Short blades are so drat good, in fact, that I can stab my way through walls in some areas. Meanwhile cudgels seem to be just really bad. I don't understand
Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 15:21
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LotsBread posted:please someone gift me deadnauts please it looks so awesome oh god its done right yes its from those assholes that made zafehouse diaries but holy crap it looks awesome i want to space marine all night loooong This looks very interesting. Has anyone played this or Zafehouse Diaries? I had never heard of either one today which makes me too nervous to impulse buy either one.
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Dec 12, 2014 17:37
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brother-joseph posted:This looks very interesting. Has anyone played this or Zafehouse Diaries? I had never heard of either one today which makes me too nervous to impulse buy either one. Zafehouse diaries is pretty hard as all your survivors end up hating each other and fighting, but it does feel good to see stuff like that happen in an otherwise 'simple' game.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:04
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brother-joseph posted:This looks very interesting. Has anyone played this or Zafehouse Diaries? I had never heard of either one today which makes me too nervous to impulse buy either one. The few times I played, I'd always get one competent black survivor and a bunch of incompetent racist morons who'd kill him/her before the zombies even tried to cause trouble.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:40
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my dad posted:The few times I played, I'd always get one competent black survivor and a bunch of incompetent racist morons who'd kill him/her before the zombies even tried to cause trouble. A true survivors tale.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:21
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brother-joseph posted:This looks very interesting. Has anyone played this or Zafehouse Diaries? I had never heard of either one today which makes me too nervous to impulse buy either one. there's a demo on the site if you wan't to try it. I played a few rounds of it yesterday and, it's possible I'm missing something, but it seemed kind of bad? Every run was ended by a turret. They kill your crew in ~1-2 seconds, and you can't bypass them because the levels are so linear. There was nothing to hack or disable that I could find, and I couldn't even kill one with 3 soldiers firing on it. Usually you can't even get close enough to see them as they mow you down. the huge UI amounts to very little. The bulk of it lists screens of stats, which is kind of silly, because the gameplay is so light there are no meaningful choices to make with all this information. this is based off the first level of a demo, so it might get dramatically more complex and interesting, but it doesn't leave a very strong first impression. edit; ok immediately after I post this I get a level with no turret blocking the way, and it was a cakewalk. We'll see how this goes. _jink fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 20:53
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