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Man Whore posted:yes Dark Souls has truly ruined gaming forever.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:18
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Jackard posted:Can someone explain the point of "good positioning" if achieving it expends all of your energy It ain't even about that, though. Like, here:  I got a gun, there's a guy above me with a melee weapon and he's gonna come after me. Do I run to the left, or to the right? What position do I take? If I run to the left I'm boxed in and he's gonna cut me to ribbons 'cause I can't get range. Energy doesn't even play into it either way, it's just about making better choices about where to move. If your can boost just whenever, then your positioning kinda doesn't matter 'cause you can bail out whenever you want. If your movement is more limited, then you gotta think things out a couple steps ahead like this, 'cause you know you may not have enough energy to use your dash tech to escape. Or, you may have to think "poo poo, do I want to just dash away and be safe, or go risky and try and finish him off" and perhaps make an interesting decision with consequences. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 20:20
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Tin Tim posted:Iirc because it was opposed to their cool plan of making ores being gated behind better picks/manipulator upgrades or something. We can let little johnny get this rock of fartmetallium from sand surfing! He hasn't even made the pissaluminum upgrade yet! give it like 3 days after the stable update and modders will have sand mining back in again.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:20
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Games were loving hard before dark souls tho, you try finishing Ghosts and Goblins Either make a fun sandbox game where people can play space lego with a rough gameplay added on or make a hard as balls side scroller, you can't do both chucklefucks
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Dec 10, 2014 20:21
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Jackard posted:Can someone explain the point of "good positioning" if achieving it expends all of your energy That's easy, if you're using a gun and trying to get out of range of a mob's melee attack, then you use your tech to boost jump away and then.... you wait until your energy recharges so you can shoot I guess, maybe it plays better. I don't have an account on the Starbound forums otherwise I'd suggest they make swinging melee weapons take energy too, just to see if they'd consider it.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:23
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Cicadas! posted:Not the delay between shots, that's an inherent quality of the sniper rifle. Yeah, that's what I meant by delay between shots, sorry. Although I haven't played it I agree it looks like it's too severe a delay.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:24
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XboxPants posted:It ain't even about that, thought. Like, here: Assuming a PvP situation melee guy will just spam his movement techs to catch up to ranged guy and beat his face in with his +3 longsword of star farts. Because he has the energy to spare on using them while ranged guy needs it to actually attack too. No sorry he'll spam one movement tech because you can only use one at a time.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:26
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XboxPants posted:It ain't even about that, thought. Like, here: Ordinarily I would agree with you on this but Starbound's combat engine is not nearly robust enough to reward smart play, or any play that doesn't involve walking backwards while holding M1. They're trying to shoehorn in mechanics that they see and like from other games, while disregarding the fact that the reason that those mechanics work is because those games are built around them. Not, y'know, space Lego. XboxPants posted:Yeah, that's what I meant by delay between shots, sorry. Although I haven't played it I agree it looks like it's too severe a delay.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:29
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Good positioning? What is this a moba?
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Dec 10, 2014 20:33
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Cicadas! posted:Ordinarily I would agree with you on this but Starbound's combat is not nearly robust enough to reward smart play, or any play that doesn't involve walking backwards while holding M1. They're trying to shoehorn in mechanics that they see and like from other games, while disregarding the fact that the reason that those mechanics work is because those games are built around them. I think I can mostly agree with you there. I don't think this energy system makes combat good, but I think it's still a slight improvement. The game's so early right now, no single change is going to make it good. But I think it could be worthwhile to take the sorta-jank platforming-combat system they have now and give it a good spitshine & duct-tape finish, shoehorn in a few systems that make it at least a bit more interesting, even if it's not great. Like, I was talking to metadept about the "samey treadmill" issue the game has where you always feel like you're fighting the same fights regardless of tier, since monsters pretty much take the same amount of shots to kill and etc. He agreed and said one thing he thought was a problem was "the essential way you fight with melee weapons doesn't change too much over the course of the progression". It'd be cool if melee weapons got more interesting somehow throughout the course of the game.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:36
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Ahundredbux posted:Good positioning? What is this a moba? It is now. Chucklefish wants those sweet dota dollars.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:38
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Ahundredbux posted:Good positioning? What is this a moba? Yeah, positioning. So do you position yourself left or right? Because you can only go left and right.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:38
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XboxPants posted:The game's so early right now, 
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Dec 10, 2014 20:38
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you'll need good positioning to fight the pixel-perfect one-tile platform dungeon boss.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:39
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grimcreaper posted:give it like 3 days after the stable update and modders will have sand mining back in again. What modders? After this long without any sort of stable release for them to work on, who is left that is still interested in the game, interested in modding the game, and willing and able to do the work?
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Dec 10, 2014 20:39
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Bullshit, how are you supposed to take advantage of positioning with no energy?
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Dec 10, 2014 20:40
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It's not like you run out of energy with any use of movement tech but it's also not as if starbound has anywhere near the amount of depth that "good positioning" is meaningful, on any level
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Dec 10, 2014 20:41
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I long for the sweet embrace of sand avalanches
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Dec 10, 2014 20:42
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XboxPants posted:The game's so early right now, three years of development
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Dec 10, 2014 20:45
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I bet we'll get that 8 months worth of early update real soon
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Dec 10, 2014 20:46
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Vanderdeath posted:I think it would've been less embarrassing for Chucklefish if they had just taken the money and ran at this point.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:49
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I don't think we should get hung up on good positioning. Because this space exploration game wants you to spend most of the time mining resources underground, most fights will happen in lovely caves and there is no good positioning. The only good position is one, where the AI jumps against a wall repeatedly and can't get to you, while you take potshots. The only thing deep about Starbound's combat is the position it takes place in.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:50
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It's like they get all these ideas and balance words from other developers but forget they're making a 2D platformer ??!
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Dec 10, 2014 20:55
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Ahundredbux posted:It's like they get all these ideas and balance words from other developers but forget they're making a 2D single-tile platformer ??!
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Dec 10, 2014 20:58
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2D platformer whatever, that doesn't matter, you can make a tight 2d platformer, what really wrecks it is the procedural stuff like dogg was talking about. How you gonna tell players to worry about their positioning when they're in some randomly stupid generated cave whose positioning options are "stand on only available spot" or "jump into mystery hole"?
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Dec 10, 2014 21:01
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Good positioning is relevant when there are weapons that punish bad positioning, more than "next to melee mob equals bad". Timed/proxy grenades, acid spit, persistent fireballs/burning ground etc are all examples of Zoneing weapons (also called area control / area denial), and none are present in any form in Starbound.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:04
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Evilreaver posted:Good positioning is relevant when there are weapons that punish bad positioning, more than "next to melee mob equals bad". Timed/proxy grenades, acid spit, persistent fireballs/burning ground etc are all examples of Zoneing weapons (also called area control / area denial), and none are present in any form in Starbound. I dunno if proxy are in, but I just saw someone in chat talking about getting a grenade launcher that used sticky timed grenades and asking what it could possibly be used for. What do you mean by "acid spit", ground stuff? Anyway, I think psi-staves may do a lot of the stuff you are talking about. There's a pretty wide variety of grenades, you should test them out. I know there are at least acid grenades (as projectiles for guns). XboxPants fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 21:08
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Evilreaver posted:Good positioning is relevant when there are weapons that punish bad positioning, more than "next to melee mob equals bad". Timed/proxy grenades, acid spit, persistent fireballs/burning ground etc are all examples of Zoneing weapons (also called area control / area denial), and none are present in any form in Starbound. 
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Dec 10, 2014 21:09
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Rrussom posted:You are a loving reptile that does nothing but produce lovely Lets Plays. Hey, this is the "poo poo on Starbound" thread, not the "poo poo on Lizard Wizard" thread. Take that poo poo to Nofriendo. XboxPants posted:The game's so early right now That's a good joke.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:23
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XboxPants posted:2D platformer whatever, that doesn't matter, you can make a tight 2d platformer, what really wrecks it is the procedural stuff like dogg was talking about. How you gonna tell players to worry about their positioning when they're in some randomly stupid generated cave whose positioning options are "stand on only available spot" or "jump into mystery hole"?
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Dec 10, 2014 21:30
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coincidentally, feel free to quickly surround yourself in dirt thus rendering yourself invulnerable and free to regenerate all health at any point
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Dec 10, 2014 21:31
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XboxPants posted:The game's so early right now Those silly AAA developers with their "actual schedules" and "completed products" have no idea what they're missing out on.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:38
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Ubisoft is catching on at least
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Dec 10, 2014 21:41
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God bless them.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:43
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I don't know what to tell you guys. You can tell me that when I say the game is early, that that's an absolutely loving ridiculous joke, and that there's no way in hell a game that's been worked on for three goddamn years should still be this early in its dev cycle, and that Chucklefish is a bunch of chucklefucks for not knowing what the gently caress they were doing enough to have poo poo together at all. You're all right about all of that, and I'm still right to call the game early.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:01
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Evil Fluffy posted:Gnomoria Rho also worked on Rimworld which is p rad.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:01
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XboxPants posted:I don't know what to tell you guys. You can tell me that when I say the game is early, that that's an absolutely loving ridiculous joke, and that there's no way in hell a game that's been worked on for three goddamn years should still be this early in its dev cycle, and that Chucklefish is a bunch of chucklefucks for not knowing what the gently caress they were doing enough to have poo poo together at all. When will it stop being "early" though?
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Dec 10, 2014 22:04
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Ahundredbux posted:When will it stop being "early" though? When they pull a Doublefine and leave the rest of the work to Modders.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:09
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Ahundredbux posted:When will it stop being "early" though? 
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Dec 10, 2014 22:12
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Ahundredbux posted:When will it stop being "early" though? If they finish the basic components, like, say, the UI backend, which they finished two months ago. It's hard to tell by looking at a screenshot cause the art is pretty, but a lot of poo poo that makes the game go is still just placeholder. The cavegen was placeholder up until a couple months ago, for another example. These very basic systems need to be created and aren't in the game yet. You think they're in the game, because there are tech-demo bullshit placeholders to allow you to test other things, but it's all illusion. It's possible the game'll never be finished, and I guess using "early" could imply that it will be finished but goddamn don't be so loving pedantic, I just mean that it's extremely incomplete and everyone can agree to that.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:14
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