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XboxPants posted:If they finish the basic components, like, say, the UI backend, which they finished two months ago. It's hard to tell by looking at a screenshot cause the art is pretty, but a lot of poo poo that makes the game go is still just placeholder. The cavegen was placeholder up until a couple months ago, for another example. See this is the real problem people have with this game, a lot of time has passed and they don't really seem to have much to show for it.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:21
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Nothing you write makes any sense holy moly
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Dec 10, 2014 22:26
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Ahundredbux posted:See this is the real problem people have with this game, a lot of time has passed and they don't really seem to have much to show for it. Seriouspost here. Not only do they not have much to show for their time, but from my point of view they're taking steps backwards in some areas. Like removing sand mining. Why the gently caress would they remove it? It let you speed up the boring task of mining and it managed to be a straight up entertaining method of getting coal. Oh, coal! That stuff you need to mine by the truckload to power your ship, unless you want to go deep into the planet to find the other fuels you can use. Getting enough fuel to fly anywhere is pointless busywork and limits one of the main draws of the game, which is exploring. It was fine when you could dump trees into your gas tank, but they had to change it so that if you wanted to use wood you had to deforest a whole planet to get anywhere. They're making all these efforts to make a ~serious challenging game~ when what I think most people wanted was a fun sandbox where they got to gently caress around and build things. Only you don't want to build anything more than a simple storage hut, because eventually you'll be leaving this planet for another one.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:31
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Ahundredbux posted:When will it stop being "early" though? Its just like a Forever Puppy! (So never)
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Dec 10, 2014 22:32
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Ahundredbux posted:See this is the real problem people have with this game, a lot of time has passed and they don't really seem to have much to show for it. But they haven't, and probably can't. So the shitposting shall continue unabated. 
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Dec 10, 2014 22:34
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Remember way back when they revealed that there were going to be various ways of progressing through the game that would accommodate different playstyles? Like you could do the normal thing and go around adventuring through dungeons and so on, but if you wanted to be a builder you'd be able to progress through the game by building structures for NPCs, and I think there was a third branch they were talking about also. Flash forward months and months, and they still don't have the stamina bar worked out. The basic systems that govern their game aren't there.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:34
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I am looking forward to the patch so I can play through, maybe get some mods. But most importantly: finally be done with this poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:36
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e: whoops, wrong thread
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Dec 10, 2014 22:37
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You know, with all the talk over the new energy system, I kind of had a thought that I've not seen mentioned. Isn't chucklefish making different types of gear for each tier that is specialized between melee/range/psi(?)? I could of sworn I saw them post an update about how ranged armor is designed to provide additional energy to compensate for ranged weaponry using that energy pool for ammo. I bring this up because the blog they had on the changes to energy regen states "No matter how big your energy pool gets, it will take precisely the same length of time to refill, effectively giving you both more shots and even more energy per second", which would mean that a player with a 1,000 point pool takes the same time to recharge as a player with a 100 point pool. Unless of course I am reading that wrong. If from what I remember about the armor types is right, melee characters have a smaller pool, but they are mostly using it for Techs and they also have the ability to Block, but for the most part they stay real close to the enemy and face tank poo poo. Ranged characters on the other hand have an extended pool that allows them to use techs to get into positions that will give them an advantage over a target and still have energy left over to fire away. I mean, I completely agree, what is shown in that gif looks horrible and the delay before recharge should probably be a bit shorter, but at the same time I realize that that is with the standard energy pool that the player starts off with and maybe it isn't as bad (as in the player doesn't empty out their energy as often) when they have appropriate gear. I can see what they are going for, and the idea isn't too bad, it is just final execution that is really going to put it to the test but that isn't going to be known until the next stable patch, whenever the hell that will be.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:58
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Combat should be like soldat and literally no other game. This energy gun thing is baffling, truly baffling. Can you still use butterfly boost to just skip around the planet at no energy loss? You only had to tap the button once every two seconds to gain full speed. Reiley fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 23:14
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Bastion probably has the best combat of any game, and it's entirely because there's a shield/parry/dodge move. The player is rewarded for doing well, not punished for playing. Hmm. Hmmmm.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:18
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oddium posted:Bastion probably has the best combat of any game, and it's entirely because there's a shield/parry/dodge move. The player is rewarded for doing well, not punished for playing. Hmm. Hmmmm. It's also not a sidescroller It has a combat system that the game is built around that fits everything else unlike certain other games VVV Ahundredbux fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 10, 2014 |
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Dec 10, 2014 23:28
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So
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Dec 10, 2014 23:32
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Supernorn if you would like a sincere effort post about how to balance your randomized gun weapons you only have to ask me and I will write one, for you, because I want your game to be good.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:40
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you should do it anyways what the gently caress else are we going to read
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Dec 10, 2014 23:42
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XboxPants posted:I think I can mostly agree with you there. I don't think this energy system makes combat good, but I think it's still a slight improvement. The game's so early right now, no single change is going to make it good. But I think it could be worthwhile to take the sorta-jank platforming-combat system they have now and give it a good spitshine & duct-tape finish, shoehorn in a few systems that make it at least a bit more interesting, even if it's not great. Rho posted:Ammo was actually originally planned, with a firm divide between projectile and plasma weapons being that plasma would use energy, and projectiles used ammo you'd craft from metal. Eventually it was decided that the return on ammo management wasn't worth all the stuff we'd have to figure out in order to realise it, so all weapons were made to use energy. It's a shame, because I personally liked the idea of reloading and magazines, but that's because I'm a gun nerd and I can appreciate most other people aren't. I find it funny how the wheels fell off basically as soon as they released it. Having an actual ammo system seems fun.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:00
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:seriousposting: 2D Sidescrollers make for lousy "High-Skill Battle" games since you have really weak freedom of movement- just left/right and jump, and for the majority of the game 'jump' is maybe a half-screen, tops, which leaves you with very few options.  , Bastion and other games with X/Z 2D movement allows for sidestepping and more ability to move and utilize an open environment. In order to compare them, imagine a Dark Souls hallway that is too narrow to dodge left or right, or even sidestep an enemy: this leaves you with just 'backing up' to give yourself distance or dodge untankable attacks.2D Sidescrollers are best done not with thoughtful positioning as their core combat mechanic, but with high-mobility fast-action combat. Again, I call on Terraria, as well as other games such as Bleed, Super Crate Box and Soldat. All of these have both the player and enemies spamming attacks at each other in high-octane, adrenaline-fueled combat, most feature jetpacks or at least double-jump as core mechanics. I am unable to think of an example of a 'play carefully' sidescroller game. That's not to say that such a game is impossible or doesn't exist, but it wouldn't be playing to 2D's strength. Mega Man, the premier 2D combat game (or at least, one everyone can agree is "pretty good" at worst), has sliding for free (in every game that has sliding) as a spammable dodge/escape, as well as wall-bouncing. It also has the player using spammy attacks, and enemies using spammy and area-denial attacks. None of the games listed take place in cramped mineshafts since those are the worst for combat, and especially bad for positional combat. Terraria is closest, and even there you are spending most of your time in wide open caverns rather than simple carved mineshafts. You can always make use of your grapple to gain height at the very least. Even the Dungeon, the most cramped of Terraria's biomes, makes use of huge open rooms regularly. Edit: Ammo should be unlimited, but clip based. Fire a revolver six times, wait a second to reload, keep firing, for example. No need to track ammo. This is essentially how Soldat operates and it's great. Heavy energy weapons could be energy-based, but that's it. Evilreaver fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 00:06
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The Soldat idea is probably the best that I've seen here honestly.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:17
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Just give me an energy bar free dodge/block and I guarantee good times
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Dec 11, 2014 00:18
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Evilreaver posted::seriousposting: Thank you for putting my thoughts into real words. There's also the little detail that many of these games have tightly designed maps, which in a game with random generated levels is not possible.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:21
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Evilreaver posted:
Well but imagine how any megaman enemy AI would gently caress up if you could modify the arena like you can in games like terraria. I think that's part of the reason why such games will never really have meaningful combat. e:basically what the guy above said
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Dec 11, 2014 00:26
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In a game where I can pull out dirt blocks and put anyone I want into the penalty box, arguing that it should have tighter gunplay is laughable. It's like you don't get what kind of game this is.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:52
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2d sidescrollers make terrible combat games for example super smash bros
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Dec 11, 2014 01:00
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pwnyXpress posted:2d sidescrollers make terrible combat games for example super smash bros Good thing it had gathering, crafting, building, and exploration too. Like, Starbound has its problems, but "bad combat" is so far down the list it's unreal.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:20
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pwnyXpress posted:2d sidescrollers make terrible combat games for example super smash bros Yes that was the point of the discussion where many great examples of good 2D sidescrolling combat was brought up
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Dec 11, 2014 01:23
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Bauxite posted:Good thing it had gathering, crafting, building, and exploration too. Holy poo poo I need to play more Smash.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:25
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Bauxite posted:Good thing it had gathering, crafting, building, and exploration too. The game is full of things which attack you on sight. Having a good system to interact with these things in an enjoyable way is pretty high up the list. There are plenty of other games for tedious grinding and getting lost in anonymous landscapes, this one had the unique potential to let you go on a hunt.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:26
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Reiley posted:The game is full of things which attack you on sight. Having a good system to interact with these things in an enjoyable way is pretty high up the list. There are plenty of other games for tedious grinding and getting lost in anonymous landscapes, this one had the unique potential to let you go on a hunt. Which is severely squandered the second you realize just how much iron ore you have to dig for just to get off the first set of rocks you come across. I can't wait for a time when bad combat is actually the worst thing about this game and we can have this discussion.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:27
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Reiley posted:The game is full of things which attack you on sight. Having a good system to interact with these things in an enjoyable way is pretty high up the list. There are plenty of other games for tedious grinding and getting lost in anonymous landscapes, this one had the unique potential to let you go on a hunt.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:28
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I just dig up enough coal and wood to let me find a planet with bird pirates, and then real game begins.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:29
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Reiley posted:I just dig up enough coal and wood to let me find a planet with bird pirates, and then real game begins. Congratulations, you get to hollow out your entire first planet for enough iron to make decent armor and fix your 100 foot long space ship so you can actually leave and find planets with cool poo poo on them. Also it takes like 12 menial task quests (why the gently caress am I making a stirring spoon and finding coffee beans) in order to leave. But, you know, not having nausea inducing soldat combat is what's really holding the game back, you're right.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:31
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My favorite element of Starbound's design process was where it they intentionally added a 3x3 default digging area to speed up excavation. Except the character is 4x2 so you still need to dig at least twice to get anywhere. Oh yeah and also it takes ten minutes to actually dig through anything but the softest sand. Fortunately mining in sand was nerfed in the nightlies too.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:37
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You idiots stop discussing the game, I'm trying to grind up my troll achievements here
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Dec 11, 2014 01:44
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This Starbound thread is what the Star Citizen thread will be like in one year. 
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Dec 11, 2014 01:45
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Babe Magnet posted:You idiots stop discussing the game, I'm trying to grind up my troll achievements here There's no game here, I'm sure you are mistaken.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:51
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XboxPants posted:If they finish the basic components, like, say, the UI backend, which they finished two months ago. It's hard to tell by looking at a screenshot cause the art is pretty, but a lot of poo poo that makes the game go is still just placeholder. The cavegen was placeholder up until a couple months ago, for another example.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:52
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Raskolnikov posted:This Starbound thread is what the Star Citizen thread will be like in one year.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:53
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I hope the devs never realize that positioning in combat is best done by using a slow(thus high damage) 2handed weapon, ideally a sword, and just backing away and using the weapon range to keep knocking back the enemies before they can touch you.Man Whore posted:Sand mining was the poo poo though, why would they remove it? Some people see unintended gameplay that people enjoy and decided "gently caress it, we didn't intended it so out it goes." Tiy worked on Terraria so it's not like this is new territory for him since few things seemed to make Red react faster than someone finding a way to sequence break. Didn't meteorite used to include a craftable pickaxe that was removed early on because it let people potentially get a good pick before they 'earned' it if a random meteorite fell in a new game? Despite meteorite being a loving nightmare to try and collect as a fresh character. AceClown posted:Games were loving hard before dark souls tho, you try finishing Ghosts and Goblins Demons' Souls (and thus Dark Soul's) whole schtick was "hard game like the stuff you grew up with in the 80s/90s" like Ghost and Goblins or Legacy of the Wizard, or Ninja Gaiden and its bullshit Hall of Brahms where you better know how enemies spawn or enjoy flying ninjas appearing mid-jump and knocking you into a pit oh wait you died to a BOSS?? Back to the start of the entire level with your rear end.  Asimo posted:I wish I made a lovely 2D indie game. I could be loving around with basic mechanics in a laughably incomplete game three+ years after development started and a year after selling the thing, and people would rush out of the woodwork to defend it anyway. Yeah I wish more studios had the careful planning of EA. We need more Simcity 2013 and Peggle launches. I look forward to their eventual timer-based freemium C&C mobile game. Only $4.99 to unlock Kane! $9.99 for an extra 10000 Tiberium! oddium posted:Bastion probably has the best combat of any game, and it's entirely because there's a shield/parry/dodge move. The player is rewarded for doing well, not punished for playing. Hmm. Hmmmm. That sounds like the combat in Quest for Glory games. Learn how to block/parry/dodge well (good luck with that, especially in the first game) and you're a goddamn immortal*. *until your stamina runs out and you instantly die as a result. Lizard Wizard posted:Holy poo poo I need to play more Smash. 8 man smash is complete and utter chaos and my god it's so loving fun, especially on the smaller battlefields because it's just smashes everywhere. And that feeling you get when you Final Smash 7 opponents all at once using Megaman. 
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Dec 11, 2014 01:54
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They should use the combat system from Monkey Island.
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Dec 11, 2014 02:01
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Reiley posted:They should use the combat system from Monkey Island. Best idea in the thread so far
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Dec 11, 2014 02:07
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