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Samuel Clemens posted:Yeah, Dark Bum is still one of the most powerful items in this game. Just not quite as ridiculous as he used to be, which suits me just fine. Where does the hole take you? If I were Edmund it'd take you to Basement/Cellar 1.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:49
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LaughMyselfTo posted:Where does the hole take you? If I were Edmund it'd take you to Basement/Cellar 1. It goes to a new chest/dark room.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:51
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LaughMyselfTo posted:Where does the hole take you? If I were Edmund it'd take you to Basement/Cellar 1. I've gotten an I Am Error room in the Chest and it just rerolled the floor.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:51
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It keeps the exact layout and rooms though, just everything is refreshed.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:56
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Just started an eden run with book of revelations and lvl. 1 cube of meat. Pretty dismal starting stats but I got a level 2 cube of meat by the end of basement I. Took some dumb damage in a boss challenge room, only 1 spirit heart left and in dire need of some type of damage. For once I can't get screwed by conquest since I only need to fight pestilence and then war. Really hope I don't gently caress this up. 
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Dec 11, 2014 00:06
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Manatee Cannon posted:Yeah, I have a problem with that mentality for tweaking items. Rather than bringing down the good stuff to be more in line with the bad, you should make everything good. I agree, but honestly there's not very many bad items in Rebirth, especially compared to the original which had several outright broken items: Holy Water turned your familiars into Brother Bobby, the Rusted Key didn't even work, and Lemon Mishap had such low damage/area that it might as well not have worked. In comparison, I think there are only a handful of items that need fixed in Rebirth. Cursed Eye needs to be buffed somehow, Pageant Boy should give you an extra luck up or something in addition to coins, Telepathy For Dummies needs something extra to make it not objectively worse than Spoon Bender, a handful of spacebar items need to have their charges reduced (Crack The Sky, Shoop Da Woop, Bob's Rotten Head, and a couple of others), and... that's really all I can think of.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:11
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Devil Wears Wings posted:Cursed Eye needs to be buffed somehow How about it has a 50% chance to teleport you whenever you fire, instead of 100% if you get hit while charging? Your opinions on what needs balancing are terrible, btw.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:14
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LaughMyselfTo posted:How about it has a 50% chance to teleport you whenever you fire, instead of 100% if you get hit while charging? Actually they're pretty reasonable???? Pageant Boy just giving coins is weird, especially since Latch Key and Match Book do other things besides give you keys and bombs (luck and sin, respectively). Telepathy for Dummies is really pointless unless you have a really nice setup that benefits from homing. And also AAA Battery/9 Volt. Crack the Sky and Shoop-da-whoop really need a buff or something since I end up missing with them half the time anyway (and with the first one, it isn't even my fault!). I'm not asking for much. I'd prefer bad items than terrible items, and Crack The Sky is terrible. Bob's Rotten Head is okay though.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:26
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Only reason to go with Telepathy for Dummies is technology or brimstone. Maybe if it made projectiles home more aggressively?
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Dec 11, 2014 00:34
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Color Printer posted:Actually they're pretty reasonable???? Pageant Boy just giving coins is weird, especially since Latch Key and Match Book do other things besides give you keys and bombs (luck and sin, respectively). Telepathy for Dummies is really pointless unless you have a really nice setup that benefits from homing. And also AAA Battery/9 Volt. Crack the Sky and Shoop-da-whoop really need a buff or something since I end up missing with them half the time anyway (and with the first one, it isn't even my fault!). Latch Key and Match Book give you less individual items, which I guess is supposed to balance it. It doesn't, obviously, I'd rather have the black heart from Match Book by itself than seven coins and on hard mode especially two keys are way more important than some change. At least you'll always be able to afford an item that's on sale when you find Pageant Boy, I guess? Shoop Da Woop and Crack the Sky are just bad, though.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:39
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It'd be kinda neat if homing effects stacked, so having more of them caused stronger homing.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:42
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LaughMyselfTo posted:It'd be kinda neat if homing effects stacked, so having more of them caused stronger homing. I want to get Spoon Bender, Sacred Heart, and Telepathy for dummies at the same time and never not hit something. Like when The Gate fires his laser while there's a jumpy guy out, but for everything.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:50
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Which one is the Negative? Left or right? I just got Curse of the Unknown on the first time I got it.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:03
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I don't think I saw it mentioned, but on the reddit there was PSA mentioning that using some mods will now flag you as cheating and won't register achievements as completed. So if you are planning to use a rebalance mod for the Lost to get that done then don't update.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:09
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I'd rather they didn't try to nerf co-op mode any more than it already is. I tried playing that over the weekend with my friend, and he wasn't having any fun being a tiny rear end in a top hat who couldn't kill anything, up until they realized they could drop bombs. Then they started having fun. So now they are taking more tools away from them? Great, so the one new feature I was excited about in the sequel is fundamentally useless to me cause I don't think my friend is gonna be down with slowly plinking away at poo poo again.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:10
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Is 1.031 the newest patch? And does it have anything to do with why my game seems to poo poo itself when I'm picking Eden, crashing to desktop and he has no items when I pick Continue? Other characters work fine. The hell, game. 
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Dec 11, 2014 01:17
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Color Printer posted:Actually they're pretty reasonable???? Pageant Boy just giving coins is weird, especially since Latch Key and Match Book do other things besides give you keys and bombs (luck and sin, respectively). Telepathy for Dummies is really pointless unless you have a really nice setup that benefits from homing. And also AAA Battery/9 Volt. Crack the Sky and Shoop-da-whoop really need a buff or something since I end up missing with them half the time anyway (and with the first one, it isn't even my fault!). Why is it so terrible to have items that you just shouldn't pick up unless you're in specific situations? You don't have to collect everything.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:19
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Lady Naga posted:Why is it so terrible to have items that you just shouldn't pick up unless you're in specific situations? You don't have to collect everything. That is true, yes, but certain items have disadvantages that they don't need to have because other items of the same type don't have them. Like, the Pageant Boy complaint is completely justified because the items like it that give bombs and keys (Match Book, Latch Key) also do other things to your stats, and Pageant Boy doesn't. edit: vvv Basically this CJacobs fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 01:22
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Instead of making the good items worse, they should make the bad items better
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Dec 11, 2014 01:24
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Lady Naga posted:You don't have to collect everything. You sound like a crazy person.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:27
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ahahahahaha holy poo poo, if you hit the I AM ERROR room in the chest there is a beam of light in the middle which restarts the chest all over again with the same layout, enemies and chests I had the habit and used a room with spike blocks + top secret room full of hearts to charge undefined and redo the chest about 5 times
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Dec 11, 2014 01:33
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oh hey talk about coincidences
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Dec 11, 2014 01:34
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Dred Cosmonaut posted:Instead of making the good items worse, they should make the bad items better They should make some items worse, some items better, and have tiny american flags for others
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Dec 11, 2014 01:39
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Lady Naga posted:Why is it so terrible to have items that you just shouldn't pick up unless you're in specific situations? You don't have to collect everything. Because that's boring. I want every item to do a cool, interesting, substantially run-affecting thing. Some of those things should definitely synergize to produce terribly counterproductive effects, fine, awesome, but items that are just plain underwhelming are nothing more than missed opportunities. They're bland spots where an interesting thing could have been.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:39
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CJacobs posted:That is true, yes, but certain items have disadvantages that they don't need to have because other items of the same type don't have them. Like, the Pageant Boy complaint is completely justified because the items like it that give bombs and keys (Match Book, Latch Key) also do other things to your stats, and Pageant Boy doesn't. Its not about "disadvantages" though; it's okay to have straight up terrible items in an item pool, especially in this kind of a game. Part of the whole roguelike "experience" is going "oooh, what's tha-well gently caress, run over. Now I know to avoid that next time." And to pre-empt any "well BoI isn't trying to strictly adhere to roguelikes" response, judging by the kind of person Edmund is, it's pretty safe to assume that stuff like terrible items and instadeath rooms are the kind of things he'd be attracted to in the genre.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:41
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Lady Naga posted:And to pre-empt any "well BoI isn't trying to strictly adhere to roguelikes" response, judging by the kind of person Edmund is, it's pretty safe to assume that stuff like terrible items and instadeath rooms are the kind of things he'd be attracted to in the genre. and this still doesn't make it good game design in spite of this being like the fifth time you've said something akin to this
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Dec 11, 2014 01:42
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Lady Naga posted:And to pre-empt any "well BoI isn't trying to strictly adhere to roguelikes" response, judging by the kind of person Edmund is, it's pretty safe to assume that stuff like terrible items and instadeath rooms are the kind of things he'd be attracted to in the genre. We know that. We've all played the game. Who gives a poo poo.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:44
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:and this still doesn't make it good game design in spite of this being like the fifth time you've said something akin to this I've seriously never ever seen so many people complaining that a game isn't exactly what they want it to be before in my life. Iny posted:We know that. We've all played the game. Who gives a poo poo. Apparently people like you do because you won't shut up about it despite all evidence pointing to the fact that it's not ever going to get changed!
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Dec 11, 2014 01:46
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My win streak counter seems to be stuck at 1. Unless Eden runs just don't count for your win streak for some reason.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:46
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If you've been killing Mega Satan, those don't count as wins. That's the only thing I can think of because Eden does count towards your win streak.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:49
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Lady Naga posted:I've seriously never ever seen so many people complaining that a game isn't exactly what they want it to be before in my life. You wear that red title with pride, huh? I've never seen somebody consistently miss the point and regurgitate the same thing as much as you do. Just because a thing is adhering to tropes from the genre it takes influence from does not automatically make that a good thing. yes the game has things in it that I don't like and I'm going to complain about them, loving deal with it. And the chance of it being changed is actually pretty non-zero since we live in an age where communication between player and dev is quite possible, claiming to know how edmund works as evidence to the contrary is stupid.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:51
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Lady Naga posted:Apparently people like you do because you won't shut up about it despite all evidence pointing to the fact that it's not ever going to get changed! Back to Lady Naga making GBS threads up the thread with some bullshit about roguelikes again. This patch sucks. loving fix the lost, Edmund, you loving hack.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:57
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I'm not really mad about any of these changes, I'm still going to play another 500+ hours of this game.  I know you guys are talking about Telepathy for Dummies and other bad active items. Bad active items occupy a weird spot; all of them are optional. They're not run-loving like certain passives (Cursed Eye, Tiny Planet) since you can swap them out when you come across a better one. I'm never happy to see Telepathy for Dummies or Shoop Da Woop, but if I've got nothing else, at least they're some marginal benefit to me. I'm okay with one item room out of six having a bad item since unlike Vanilla, there's many more locations to find items now. I have a feeling some of the offenders like Pageant Boy are only in there because they're grandfathered in. In however many years until we get The Binding of Isaac 3, I bet they'll still be there, pissing off people. (Okay, I'd like it if it guaranteed at least one of the coins would be a nickel.)
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Dec 11, 2014 02:07
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I'd like it if it made it so there was a random chance that a shot would explode into confetti. The confetti wouldn't do anything, just be silly.
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Dec 11, 2014 02:10
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Lady Naga posted:I've seriously never ever seen so many people complaining that a game isn't exactly what they want it to be before in my life. Bad game design is bad game design no matter its intended purpose or the genre that the game is intended to be in or, well, anything else for that matter. End of conversation, stop making GBS threads up this thread about how H4RDKKKORE you are about roguelikes. Really though, nothing was made terrible in this patch (with the possible exception of 2P mode). Dark Bum is still a no-brainer for one red heart, Lil Brimstone will continue to be awesome regardless of his increased cost, and Krampus' Head still wipes the floor with bosses and 2x2 rooms.
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Dec 11, 2014 02:11
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Devil Wears Wings posted:Bad game design is bad game design no matter its intended purpose or the genre that the game is intended to be in or, well, anything else for that matter. End of conversation, stop making GBS threads up this thread about how H4RDKKKORE you are about roguelikes. I don't agree with Lady Naga particularly but this isn't even slightly true. There are plenty of things that make me enjoy games that have been called bad design, but clearly they aren't because I, and others, enjoy them (eg. there have been lots of instances of people calling the slow paced combat in games like BG2 "bad design")
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Dec 11, 2014 02:20
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Me: "Oh hey let's finish Dark Room with Eden" Game: "Hi have an Eden with Polaroid as one of the starting items"
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Dec 11, 2014 02:31
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Cuntpunch posted:Me: "Oh hey let's finish Dark Room with Eden" Haha, well at least you can ALSO pick up the Negative
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Dec 11, 2014 02:32
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So what about the boss arena rooms? They seem overnerfed in Rebirth, I see an item in there maybe 10% of the time. I wish they at least contained guaranteed gold/red chests, not the normal grey ones. Edit: also I wonder when they'll nerf Stopwatch. It's much more ridiculous than the head of Krampus, although much less common. I hope never. omeg fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 02:34
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I just did a Hard Mode run where I got Dark Bum on floor 2 so I decided to count how many hearts he gave me. Over the course of the run I got 11 soul hearts and 3 spiders (two of which were friendly). So yeah he's still really good.
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Dec 11, 2014 02:40
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