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Vaall posted:You illustrate pretty well the only reason people become religious—fear of death. Not the only reason. There can be an innate dissatisfaction with seeing life, the universe and everything as being just so much conveniently well-rolled dice. It's likewise quite nice to believe there is a force, omnipotent and omniscient, no less, encouraging everything to improve for the better.
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Dec 11, 2014 14:51
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Vaall posted:You illustrate pretty well the only reason people become religious—fear of death. if only he had read the bible more closely and seen that when we die we die, just like the animals. It is also why the apostles thought that Jesus said that Lazarus was sleeping instead of, you know, being dead. It is really annoying that the idea of an immortal soul took over and took people in slavery under the fear of death. Let us go and die together with him  11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” 12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.” 16 Then Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]) said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.” Big Mackson fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 14:53
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Who What Now posted:
I'm really not smug about it. Rather think it would be a lot more smug if I was here speaking with absolute certainty that MY beliefs are the abject and utter truth and that anyone who didn't agree with them was clearly mentally deficient and bad. You know, like you!
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Dec 11, 2014 14:53
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The Snark posted:Not the only reason. There can be an innate dissatisfaction with seeing life, the universe and everything as being just so much conveniently well-rolled dice. It's likewise quite nice to believe there is a force, omnipotent and omniscient, no less, encouraging everything to improve for the better. This is irrelevant horseshit. If the conveniently well-rolled dice went a different direction that made us immortal there would be no religion. Death's implications are the lifeblood of religious beliefs, not theology.
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Dec 11, 2014 14:57
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Vaall posted:This is irrelevant horseshit. If the conveniently well-rolled dice went a different direction that made us immortal there would be no religion. Death's implications are the lifeblood of religious beliefs, not theology. Your assertion is not based in fact. You do not have a society of atheist immortals to point to as evidence. Your faith in it seems poorly founded.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:00
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what is it with goons and the obsession with death and religion? speak in human talk so we can understand what positions are being taken here so we can move forward with the discussion! This is D&D so stop with the GBSing already! 
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Dec 11, 2014 15:02
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There is only one thing that matters and it is Onan.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:04
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The Snark posted:Your assertion is not based in fact. You do not have a society of atheist immortals to point to as evidence. Your faith in it seems poorly founded. Cute coming from the religious. I was merely using the same logic you used when you talked about immortality after death & invisible sky people.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:04
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Vaall posted:Cute coming from the religious. I was merely using the same logic you used when you talked about immortality after death & invisible sky people. You didn't get it I see. Your assertion was not based in fact but you apparently believe it. You have faith in it, and it would seem to be because you hope it's true. Why? I suspect it's because if it were true that would make you right. Which, if I may say so, is a really vain reason to hope something is true.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:10
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The Snark posted:Your assertion is not based in fact. You do not have a society of atheist immortals to point to as evidence. Your faith in it seems poorly founded. All Faith is poorly founded. Faith is the excuse people give when they can't justify their beliefs.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:22
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The Snark posted:You didn't get it I see. Your assertion was not based in fact but you apparently believe it. You have faith in it, and it would seem to be because you hope it's true. Why? I suspect it's because if it were true that would make you right. The concept of death and what supposedly comes after it (either eternal paradise or torment) is one of the core tenets throughout Christian theology and the Bible in general its only natural that its the driving force behind religious belief and superstition in general. The thought of salvaging an alternative to eternal torment (or nonexistence, nothing, forgotten, etc. as you so eloquently put it) out of fear by believing in a divine savior granting immortality seems like a good idea if you through facts out the window. You've demonstrated this quite well throughout this thread. The Snark posted:Which, if I may say so, is a really vain reason to hope something is true. Again, this is really cute coming from the religious, if I may say so.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:23
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actually, people who can live forever in paradise technically dont have immortality 
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Dec 11, 2014 15:25
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I am so very sorry that I have been so profoundly smug in the face of all these humble people who are simply looking for knowledge rather than asserting they already have it and want to condemn others for lacking it.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:27
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The Snark posted:To answer your question about one thing faith offers that atheism does not, hope for some measure of persistence past death for one. What possible prison could be worse than an eternal life in which the venal joys of bloodshed are denied you? All we have learned of the pretender YHWH points to it as a cowardly creator, one working only in shadows, when backs are turned, when the world sleeps. It commands its followers to glorious and righteous bloodshed, and then what? It weeps so for its pitiful creations that it sends a fragment of itself down to beg all to cease, that the only good thing it ever did (exhort the Isrealites to war) was bad and that all ought to live peacefully? The heaven of the pretender YHWH is a citadel of boredom, in which no adrenal rush will ever again color your pitiful consciousness, in which the joyous reds of blood and whites of bone are muted to the dull gray of fathomless, diversionless eternity. Strum your harp, if you wish, and feel safe amongst the cinderblocks, but as long as your soul exists, you will know the kernel of fear, the doubt of heaven. And in time, those fears and doubts will be proven true as the whiff of Khorne reaches even there. No, a life to be followed by fearful imprisonment, waiting in a pen for inevitable slaughter, suits me not at all. Better to live a bloody life, fulfilling the gleeful destruction for which I was created, for which my blood begs and to which my adrenal glands ceaselessly drive me. Better to live as I am, as I was born, than subjugate myself to the will of a cuckold spirit too cowardly to show its face, in the hopes of extending my sheepish and craven existence for eternity.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:28
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Muscle Tracer posted:What possible prison could be worse than an eternal life in which the venal joys of bloodshed are denied you? actually, people are going to live on an earth free of pollution and war and disease
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Dec 11, 2014 15:30
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Muscle Tracer posted:What possible prison could be worse than an eternal life in which the venal joys of bloodshed are denied you? Look at all those words you typed here instead of cleaving someone's head in two! It stands to reason Khorne has no need for your piteous arguing, only that you spread his word through the only act that matters to him. Gratuitous violence. I don't think you really have faith! Not at all! The Snark fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 15:32
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The Snark posted:I am so very sorry that I have been so profoundly smug in the face of all these humble people who are simply looking for knowledge rather than asserting they already have it and want to condemn others for lacking it. Good, you should be.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:42
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Oh no, foisted by mine own petard by the willful ignorance of others.
The Snark fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 15:46
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Cut out his tongue and burn him at the stake.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:48
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The Snark posted:Oh no, foisted by mine own petard by the willful ignorance of others. Anyone else hear a projector? A very loud one?
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Dec 11, 2014 15:58
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Several, in fact.
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Dec 11, 2014 15:59
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This thread... is unbelievable. As in, i cannot believe in it.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:01
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The Snark posted:Several, in fact. You'd need more than a few to get all of us, after all.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:04
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The Snark posted:Look at all those words you typed here instead of cleaving someone's head in two! It stands to reason Khorne has no need for your piteous arguing, only that you spread his word through the only act that matters to him. Gratuitous violence. Only a cowardly and weak spirit could be said to "need" anything from the mortal realm. If YHWH "needs" belief or prayer or lack of sin, then what further proof could possibly be requested of its weakness and unholiness? Khorne does not "need." Khorne revels.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:10
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what we just needed. Some d20 comic book nerd crap.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:12
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Guys some choose to believe in the teapot orbiting Saturn, others prefer to have "faith," if you will, that there is no teapot, no teapot salvation and that their bodies decompose upon death. I guess one of us must be right, and I'll see you before the teapot to be judged by its mighty spout. Or not, and we just "cease existing" when we die 
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Dec 11, 2014 16:14
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Tell me more about this teapot. 
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Dec 11, 2014 16:16
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but we literally do cease to exist, both from a secular and theological (christian) viewpoint. How hard is this to understand? 
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Dec 11, 2014 16:17
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Michael Jackson posted:but we literally do cease to exist, both from a secular and theological (christian) viewpoint. How hard is this to understand? But a 2000 year old book says....
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Dec 11, 2014 16:19
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CommieGIR posted:But a 2000 year old book says.... death is certain.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:21
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Michael Jackson posted:what we just needed. Some d20 comic book nerd crap. I agree that the followers of YHWH are on the whole the weakest, flabbiest, and most flatulent among us.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:21
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The Snark posted:Tell me more about this teapot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot quote:Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:25
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The Snark posted:Tell me more about this teapot. It's short and stout.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:26
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Dogmas are bad and should feel bad
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Dec 11, 2014 16:27
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I had been hoping it was an original thought, actually. Rather disappointed now.Bob James posted:It's short and stout. A bit more like it, but I was hoping for something along the lines of 'Divine Libatious, God of Tea' complete with a brief list of acceptable and unacceptable drinks. The faithful are limited to the True Tea Lovers whom see an eternity of being brewed- alongside the finest chosen dried leaves- as heaven rather than hell. The Snark fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 16:28
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^^^^^ How have you never heard of Russell's Teapot? That poo poo's vintage. ____ At least Warhammer 40k is honest about what it is, you have to give it that. Who What Now fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 16:29
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Who What Now posted:At least Warhammer 40k is honest about what it is, you have to give it that. you sprang the trap! you sprang it!
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Dec 11, 2014 16:30
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The Snark posted:I had been hoping it was an original thought, actually. Rather disappointed now. No, it was a reference to the smartest and baddest man who ever lived seeing into the future, seeing you, and calling you on your bullshit  "I see you, fearful idiot"
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Dec 11, 2014 16:32
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Michael Jackson posted:you sprang the trap! you sprang it! What trap? I loving love Warhammer 40k, I'm not ashamed of it.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:33
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SedanChair posted:No, it was a reference to the smartest and baddest man who ever lived seeing into the future, seeing you, and calling you on your bullshit He is entirely unqualified to comment on which of us is an idiot or even to see me as he is in fact dead. I think you should pull arm and hand from out of that corpse's rear end and stop making him say things. Very disrespectful treatment of a man you supposedly respect. *tsks*
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Dec 11, 2014 16:34
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