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Varance posted:It's very well explained in Type-0, which is a prequel to the events of 13. I've played Type-0 and none of that was mentioned in-game, ever. The library/codex doesn't count, XIII has it as well.
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Dec 12, 2014 03:02
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Artix posted:To be fair you don't really need much (if any) of it for 13 proper, it's when you start getting into 13-2 and LR that poo poo starts making no sense without it. Yeah, that's true; XIII's more about the human protagonists and their drama, but at the same time, it'd have made things a lot clearer towards the end if they explained it. Or at least elaborated somewhat. I mean, the game makes the basics pretty clear; find and solve a task before you turn into a crystal zombie. Fair enough. The Cocoon Fal'Cie want to kill a load of people to (hopefully) get god's attention (as I understood on my first playthrough - yeah, I now know it's about opening a gate, etc). But the specifics of why this poo poo is happening, and certain events happen? By XIII-2 and LR, I gave up on bothering to understand it, and just rolled with whatever. 
Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 03:12
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Krad posted:I've played Type-0 and none of that was mentioned in-game, ever. The library/codex doesn't count, XIII has it as well. Gala is a fal'Cie and basically that world's Barthandalus. It's mentioned by Cid in one of his rants after Gala possesses his body, during the trials if I remember right. Varance fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 03:14
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Varance posted:Gala is a fal'Cie and basically that world's Barthandalus. It's mentioned by Cid in one of his rants after Gala possesses his body, during the trials if I remember right. A passing mention is far, far off from something being "very well explained", I think. In fact, Type-0's story is fifteen times more incomprehensible than XIII's, unless you're willing to go through the game a second time and read all of the library's entries as well.
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Dec 12, 2014 03:19
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Krad posted:A passing mention is far, far off from something being "very well explained", I think. In fact, Type-0's story is fifteen times more incomprehensible than XIII's, unless you're willing to go through the game a second time and read all of the library's entries as well. The base plot is just as convoluted as the other FNC series games, so yeah, have to rely on the codex entries for any sense. Agito/Type-0 plot spoilers: The entire Agito/Type-0 base plot is that Pulse and Lindzei found the gate in that dimension and teamed up to try to force it open. Lindzei has his fal'Cie Gala repeat the death cycle to crack the gate open (Finis), then Pulse has his fal'Cie Arecia use the grand soul of the Agito, or chosen warrior, to try to wedge the gate open permanently so that Bhunivelze can pass through and kill his mother. And they've tried over 600 million attempts by the time Type-0 happens, without success. After the events of Type-0: The cycle broken, Pulse and Lindzei check on Gran Pulse and... gently caress. Some random l'Cie managed to kill Etro and break the gate wide open to stop Yeul from repeatedly dying. And Bhunivelze is still sleeping.  End of Lightning Returns: Lightning confronts Bhunivelze, who decides to wield Lindzei and Pulse as weapons (dat scythe) to smack her around a bit. She manages to defeat all three of them in the final battle and is able to guide all of the saved souls into the Agito/Type-0 dimension, which becomes the new "Mortal Realm." The old dimension becomes the new "Unseen Realm," with Caius standing vigil next to the merged consciousness of Yeul/Etro/Mwynn to help guide the souls of the dead from one realm to the next (and to make sure Bhunivelze doesn't start any more poo poo). Once you have all this stuff explained to you, some of the plot points become a bit more obvious. For example, in FFXIII-2, every time Yeul says that's she's not Yeul, you're actually speaking to Etro. Varance fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 03:23
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Add PS4 to the platforms that FFX-FFX2 HD is on
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Dec 12, 2014 03:47
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FFV developers were such assholes. I just ran into a regular enemy in the Fork Tower that hit me twice in one turn for 9999 damage each.    What the poo poo? Looking it up, I see that Flare counterattacks any non-magic hit with two 9999 attacks. What a coincidence you meet this guy on the part of the game that only lets you have two characters. If he only attacked once a turn, then you could survive and learn from your mistake. Why does he attack twice? lol
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Dec 12, 2014 04:58
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It's especially mean because the boss for that half of the tower is totally chumped by physical attacks and you should definitely spam them at every opportunity I'm pretty sure the game tells you this but one side of the tower doesn't let you use magic and the other side very strongly discourages you from using physical attacks. You probably wanna rethink your party classes
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Dec 12, 2014 05:05
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It's almost as though you're not supposed to melee monsters on that side of the tower.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:06
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Super Ninja Fish posted:FFV developers were such assholes. I just ran into a regular enemy in the Fork Tower that hit me twice in one turn for 9999 damage each. You're in Fork Tower. Don't use physical attacks on the magic side and vice versa. Pretty simple rule. Looper posted:It's especially mean because the boss for that half of the tower is totally chumped by physical attacks and you should definitely spam them at every opportunity No, the real trick is to equip Reflect Rings on your party members that can only attack physically and then wait MANY HOURS until he runs out of MP. Hooray for the Five Job Fiesta making me do this TWICE. 
Xad fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 05:07
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Nihilarian posted:It's almost as though you're not supposed to melee monsters on that side of the tower. How were you supposed to know that before instantly dying? It's not just this part though. There's the monster in the basement of a castle that's pretty much auto death, there's this other castle in the middle of your path that entering it is auto death, there's enemies that do Lv 5 death which killed my entire party instantly. You have to save a lot with this game.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:13
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An annoying thing is that most of the monsters on the magical side have good steals, but even !Steal triggers the anti-physical counterattacks. In order to actually steal you need to drain all their MP or outright kill them with !Mug.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:18
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The game tells you one side of the tower is for magic only.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:19
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I'm pretty sure the game tells you before you set out that one side is Magic-only and the other is Physical-only.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:21
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quote:PRE-ORDER TO SECURE THE FINAL FANTASY XV PLAYABLE DEMO, AVAILABLE EXCLUSIVELY WITH FINAL FANTASY® TYPE-0 HD WHILE SUPPLIES LAST! https://type0.na.square-enix.com/ To clear up any confusion, the FFXV demo is available with both the collector's edition and the standard edition. However, you have to pre-order to secure access to the demo. So it's a first print exclusive. Type-0 HD retails at $60 for standard edition and $100 for collector's edition.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:33
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Do they ever address in the supplementary materials if the fal'cie's plan to open Etro's gate would have worked Why was Odin reincarnated as a chocobo if the cycle of reincarnation had stopped with etro's death Was Snow still a Cactaur l'cie in lightning returns Did Anima or Pulse brand the main cast Where is Lindzei, Pulse seems to be in the same dimension as Benny until summoned at the end of LR Why did the war of transgression even need to happen, wouldn't the lindzei fal'cie just let them destroy cocoon to open the gate I hate these drat games' plot
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Dec 12, 2014 05:38
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Super Ninja Fish posted:How were you supposed to know that before instantly dying? One of the guards in that first castle straight up tells you to stay the hell out of the basement
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Dec 12, 2014 05:41
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Looper posted:One of the guards in that first castle straight up tells you to stay the hell out of the basement Well yeah, but come on, every player is going to go there anyway. Some of the time the people in a RPG tell you not to leave the first town because there's monsters outside. I just thought that sentence meant he was really really hard, not impossible. Pureauthor posted:I'm pretty sure the game tells you before you set out that one side is Magic-only and the other is Physical-only. You're right. Someone in the nearby town says it. I didn't remember reading that. Still, two counter attacks of 9999 is a little overboard.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:46
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Jackanapes are really, really hard but not impossible. Also, a dude at the library tells you about the L5 Death thing IIRC, so...
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Dec 12, 2014 05:48
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Relin posted:Do they ever address in the supplementary materials if the fal'cie's plan to open Etro's gate would have worked The cast's brands have the Anima symbol so that's who branded them. But everything else, gently caress if I know. E: just did the chocobo friends quest in lr. Adorable :3
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Dec 12, 2014 05:48
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Xad posted:No, the real trick is to equip Reflect Rings on your party members that can only attack physically and then wait MANY HOURS until he runs out of MP. Hooray for the Five Job Fiesta making me do this TWICE. Only twice? That's precious. 
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Dec 12, 2014 05:56
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Relin posted:Do they ever address in the supplementary materials if the fal'cie's plan to open Etro's gate would have worked The Fal'Cie's plan is addressed in-game actually. It amounts to 'we make so much loving noise that God has to return and check this poo poo out." It's basically ramming souls at it until it works. Everything they do is basically to manipulate humans into the biggest, bloodiest, more violent war possible because the bigger a bang they make at once, the more likely it is their plan will work. Odin wasn't reincarnated in that he died and was reborn. Other than that it isn't really explained. Lindzei and Pulse both appear to have hosed right off, which is why the Fal'cie are pissy. Snow is a l'cie of Pandemonium. This is addressed directly in the plot. Anima. This happens directly onscreen. The war happened because making a whole lot of people kill each other was basically the only way the Fal'cie can do things because they are effectively programmed and pretty much the entire circuitious plot of FFXIII is them trying to find a way around their programming. The entire plot of FFXIII is basically Gods making GBS threads on lesser gods making GBS threads on lesser gods down to humanity being the bottom of the trickle-down poo poo chain. It's poorly executed but isn't a really bad idea. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 06:01
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 Holy crap, I had no inkling of, like, any of that after playing LR, and as I understand it LR is the only one in the trilogy that sort of touches on the mythology to any extent.And yeah, why did the Pulse fal'Cie try to stop Lindzei, when it sounds like Lindzei was trying to do exactly what he was supposed to do (and the same thing Pulse was trying to do)? How does building worlds help Pulse find a gate? I thought the fal'Cie were trying to kill all humans to bring the "maker" back. Who is supposed to be the "maker," then? I seem to recall there being stuff in XIII about killing humans to force open the gate, and make the "maker" on the other side of the gate come back. But the only ones on the other side of the gate were Etro and Mwynn, and why would the fal'Cie consider either of those some sort of parent-figure maker? If Anima could send a "distress signal" to Pulse to get Pulse to uncrystalize Fang and Vanille, why didn't the Pulse fal'Cie call Pulse up when they went to war with Lindzei and got their asses kicked? If Etro can do poo poo like prematurely crystalize l'cie, why didn't she do that to all the meddlesome l'Cie that were getting created? If even a sub-god like Pulse could create new dimensions when he feels like it, and that dimension can be used as the Mortal Realm, why was Bhunivelze so concerned about Chaos loving up the Mortal Realm? He could just make a new one. If Bhunivelze made Etro, and Pulse made people from Etro blood, why did it seem so beyond Bhunivelze's power to make new people in a new dimension? Edit: Oh, and why are the Cocoon fal'Cie not programed to kill humans and gently caress poo poo up themselves, when that is specifically what Lindzei wanted? Even when it's explained, I don't get it. Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 06:09
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Half the Fal'cie wants the mass death approach, while the other want a few strong souls. Quantity vs. Quality. The Maker is God, for some reason they changed it in the localization. The Japanese audio straight up says God.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:13
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Tae posted:Half the Fal'cie wants the mass death approach, while the other want a few strong souls. Quantity vs. Quality. But who is "God" in this mythology?
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Dec 12, 2014 06:16
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Schwartzcough posted:But who is "God" in this mythology? The Big B is God with a G. He created the second-tier gods (Lindzei, Pulse and Etro) to basically be his god-robots. Two of them created the third-tier gods. (The Fal'cie) to be THEIR god-robots. Humanity was an accident. Every one of those lower on the totem than the previous one basically sees everything above them as gods and creators. The Big B is God to Linzei, Pulse and Etro. The Big B and whichever of Lindzei or Pulse created them are the Gods to the Fal'cie. Every single one of those assholes is a god-like being to humanity.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:20
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Schwartzcough posted:But who is "God" in this mythology? I assumed it was Bhunivelze (since he would be woken up when the gate is open), but I guess it could be Lindzei since he also hosed off apparently.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:20
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Lightning murders the poo poo out of Bhunivelze while dressed like a crazy person, so she's the new head of religion imho
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Dec 12, 2014 06:35
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The way it basically works is this: At some point, the universe was created. It was not created by Bhunivelze. It is divided into Life and Afterlife. Bhunivelze's mom was the one in charge of the Life part of the world. Bhunivelze murdered her rear end and took over. However, murdering her meant she was still chilling in the afterlife. So he decided he was going to find a way into the afterlife to murder his mom for reals this time. He couldn't get there himself in any way which didn't involve dying. He didn't want to die, so he wanted to find a way to bust the door to the afterlife open. He created two God-Robots to find a way into the afterlife. He also created a third God-Robot called Etro but decided she was kinda lovely (he was right) and refused to have anything more to do with her. She killed herself. Keeping in mind that "kill yourself" means you go to the Afterlife. Etro accidentally ended up ruler of the afterlife. The other God-Robots ended up creating humanity out of her corpse/blood/whatever. Because of those two factors, humanity ended up outside of the God-Robot cycle because Etro started shaping Chaos into souls and shoving it into humans. Etro did this because she is so overly and absurdly sympathetic that she will do harmful dangerous things basically on a whim. (See also: Yuel, saving the protagonists, literally the entire plot of FFXIII-2.) Etro is also a giant fuckup so this always goes wrong 100% of the time. The two remaining God-Robots began to try to figure out ways into the afterlife. Humanity played a central role in that. So they ended up creating lesser God-Robots to basically treat humanity like cattle and keep them growing and raising them. Then the two great God Robots hosed off to go try out things to get into the afterlife. The lesser God-Robots (The Fal'Cie) did this for a long time until some of them got frankly sick of what amounted to being abandoned and began trying to find a way to force their masters to come back by killing an insane shitload of humans. Either this breaks open Etro's Gate and their bosses come back and are like "great job, guys" or it killed an absurd number of humans and their bosses come back and are like "you motherfuckers." Either way they win because they're not stuck being the immortal nursemaids for a bunch of humans anymore. The Fal'Cie are robots who have to follow the exact letter of their programming. They can not deviate from it. However they can exploit the poo poo out of loopholes. Barthandalus is basically exploiting a giant loophole where his job was to find a way to get to the Afterlife and boy, killing a lot of humans sure might work. They also have a loophole where they can create l'cie and give them Focuses. They can exploit the loophole of the Focus to get the L'cie to do poo poo they can't do themselves. That is where FFXIII starts. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 06:37
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The word 'basically' is doing a lot of work in that post.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:49
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Dan Didio posted:The word 'basically' is doing a lot of work in that post. It's late, I'm battling insomnia and I'm not particularly proofreading my writeup of FFXIII's lovely plot very hard. v  v
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Dec 12, 2014 06:53
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The stark contrast between silly but fun FF5 gameplay discussion and FF13's mind-numbing mythology over the past two pages is the best example I've seen of why it's so hard to give a poo poo about where FF is going these days.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:21
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Except FF14 rules
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Dec 12, 2014 07:30
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I like the monk garb in lr which lets you airjuggle people with infinitr roundhouse kicks
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Dec 12, 2014 07:31
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ImpAtom posted:It's late, I'm battling insomnia and I'm not particularly proofreading my writeup of FFXIII's lovely plot very hard. v I'm sure it's a very succinct and precise description of that plot, but anytime I see a paragraph with the phrase 'fal'Cie' in it, I batter myself with a series of punches and other blunt striking manoeuvres.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:35
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Tae posted:Except FF14 rules That's true. It is a fun game.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:36
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bloodychill posted:The stark contrast between silly but fun FF5 gameplay discussion and FF13's mind-numbing mythology over the past two pages is the best example I've seen of why it's so hard to give a poo poo about where FF is going these days. Dialog being constrained by the memory of a 500KB cartridge was actually a blessing for Square it seems.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:38
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Dan Didio posted:I'm sure it's a very succinct and precise description of that plot, but anytime I see a paragraph with the phrase 'fal'Cie' in it, I batter myself with a series of punches and other blunt striking manoeuvres. That's why "god robot" is there.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:41
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I'm working on finishing all of the main FF games that I never finished back in the day, started with 3 and just finished 5 and now I'm moving on to 8. Jumping from the amazing FF5 to the uneven mess that is FF8 is really disorienting. I can't believe there was a time when hideous PSX RPGs with their insane load times seemed really awesome. The music is still hella good though, and some of the cutscenes have held up better than I ever expected.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:55
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bloodychill posted:The stark contrast between silly but fun FF5 gameplay discussion and FF13's mind-numbing mythology over the past two pages is the best example I've seen of why it's so hard to give a poo poo about where FF is going these days. We need to discuss Ex-Death disguising himself as a splinter in Cara's foot alongside the FF13 gibberish nonsense.   Not if the talking turtle has anything to say about it!  
some bust on that guy fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 07:59
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