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I think the 3rd labyrinth was my favorite one. The atmosphere was nice, and the puzzles were really neat. Maybe not the Cartesian plane puzzle but I really enjoyed it. I'm not really enjoying these torch puzzles in the 4th labyrinth much though.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:55
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Vengarr posted:What was dumb about it? It was clearly intended from the start based on the background material and neatly answered a lot of questions about why things happened the way they did. The 'people's wishes form a literal monster' thing is pointless and detracts from the overall story. It isn't necessary and doesn't really change anything, it just gives a covenient boss monster for you to punch. The protagonist also going from 'accepts death and dies without fear' to 'accepts death and becomes a statue that can be rescued" thing is also lame as poo poo, but at least Atlus so far has stuck to just offering an out without actually pulling the trigger.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:04
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ImpAtom posted:The 'people's wishes form a literal monster' thing is pointless and detracts from the overall story. It isn't necessary and doesn't really change anything, it just gives a covenient boss monster for you to punch. You litteraly fight monsters born of the people's wishes and mind for the rest of the game. And it's never said that the MC can be rescued. Just that one day his sacrifice might not be necessary, ie that he'll be allowed to rest in peace instead of being the Seal. Iceclaw fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 08:09
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Iceclaw posted:You litteraly fight monsters born of the people's wishes and mind for the rest of the game. And it's never said that the MC can be resuced. Just that one day his sacrifice might not be necessary, ie that he'll be allowed to rest in peace instead of being the Seal. that's why it's dumb, the only way that plot can go without going against p3's themes is to basically make it so things end up exactly how they were before erebus was retconned in
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Dec 12, 2014 08:12
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Ooorrr maybe going with a fully megaten ending where mankind is forever changed, maybe because Nyarlathotep has been defeated or weakened enough? Could be an interesting send off for that plotline.
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Dec 12, 2014 08:14
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tbh i never beat p2 so im not familiar with that part of the story
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Dec 12, 2014 08:16
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Well the duology ends up with one timeline being utterly wrecked, with one city being the only remnant of humanity. The other just... err carry on without anyone realizing anything (despite a city taking flight and dragons raging around the globe for a good while. P2 is sloppily written like that at times).
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Dec 12, 2014 08:19
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you can ask them to bring back nyarlathotep all you want, but i think you're gonna be disappointed when p5 comes around and the final boss is another poorly-defined god of nihilism who has nothing to do with anything.
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Dec 12, 2014 09:32
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Nothing post Persona 2 has anything to do with Persona 1 or 2 and it never will. At most you'll get some fan service callbacks but you will never get any direct ties to those games.
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Dec 12, 2014 09:34
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Manatee Cannon posted:Nothing post Persona 2 has anything to do with Persona 1 or 2 and it never will. At most you'll get some fan service callbacks but you will never get any direct ties to those games. Well, that's kind of my opinion as well, if only because they seems to have pretty large differences here and there. Demons mainly.
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Dec 12, 2014 09:57
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Iceclaw posted:Well the duology ends up with one timeline being utterly wrecked, with one city being the only remnant of humanity. The other just... err carry on without anyone realizing anything (despite a city taking flight and dragons raging around the globe for a good while. P2 is sloppily written like that at times). The other one's Sumaru City got what basically amounted to a reset/restore to before the city launched, from what I understand. The reason it cost the group something in IS to do anything remotely similar was because Nyarly won that round, but Philemon won EP so it worked out differently in round 2. It's never fully stated what people do or don't remember, but Tatsuya doesn't seem to recall anything out of the ordinary so it can be pretty safely presumed things are "normal" now. Also, P2:EP is probably my favorite game and I'm fine with it getting references and nothing more. Something pops up that uses them, cool, but I'm not really looking to have them use that stuff anymore. No use forcing it. Back to PQ - I've gotten to the third dungeon, and I'm one of those morons using absolutely everyone for no good reason. Honestly, so far, the only character I feel that's actually aggressively not good is Teddie; everyone else has been rather useful, with the two mains and Naoto being my three best people so far. Finally got Growth 1 purchaseable in shop, so probably gonna spend some time and money getting that on everyone and spellcards bought. Outside of Impure Reach, are there any spellcard recommendations people have?
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Dec 12, 2014 12:49
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Torokasi posted:The other one's Sumaru City got what basically amounted to a reset/restore to before the city launched, from what I understand. The reason it cost the group something in IS to do anything remotely similar was because Nyarly won that round, but Philemon won EP so it worked out differently in round 2. It's never fully stated what people do or don't remember, but Tatsuya doesn't seem to recall anything out of the ordinary so it can be pretty safely presumed things are "normal" now.
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Dec 12, 2014 13:22
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Checked a video of the ending, and yeah, you're right, though... I don't remember like half of this ending weirdly enough. Oh well, yeah, definitely recalled wrong. We don't get an explanation for what people think happened, then, though I guess that's outside scope - it's still pretty implied that people don't remember what happened, esp. with it not being mentioned in P3/4. Still, Sumaru City did remain hosed up... yeah, agreed, that's weird. I guess I mentally ignored that when watching the ending.  Memory shenanigans are hardly outside the scope of "stuff that happens in endings", though - see the ending of P3.
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Dec 12, 2014 16:55
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P3 does foreshadows that the Dark Hour fucks with non persona users's memories, though. It's a bit of a copout that SEES forget about it after the Fall, but it's not coming from nowhere. Nothing in P2 allude to memory loss.
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Dec 12, 2014 17:00
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Torokasi posted:Outside of Impure Reach, are there any spellcard recommendations people have? Pain Eater is useful to have on one character (Aigis is the best with it by far but Shinji and Kanji both can use it well). You want Snake Glare on one of your Navigators (it works on either field or battle). The ranged elemental attacks (fusion/scorching/nuclear blast, etc) are valuable to have. You probably want some means of either binding or panicking opponents, whether through circles or direct target skills. Eventually you'll want Immunity Buffer on everyone, Runic Shield and Swordbreaker on at least one person per row (dunno if they stack in any way), Bloody Vanguard on your fastest attacker, Roads and Alleys of Light on your Field Navigator, Heroic Gemini on as many of your attackers as you can get, etc. All of those are level 50+ skill cards, though, and there's never enough room for everything.
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Dec 12, 2014 17:02
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Binding Hands is Impure Reach for circle spells. Belphegor has the card, he's level 63 or so. In the same vein, Ukobach learns Panic Circle at level six. And of course Seth has Myriad Arrows. He's level 70 though. edit: here's a handy list of all the skill cards and where you can find them http://www.gamefaqs.com/3ds/739685-persona-q-shadow-of-the-labyrinth/faqs/70777 Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 17:07
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Iceclaw posted:You litteraly fight monsters born of the people's wishes and mind for the rest of the game. And it's never said that the MC can be rescued. Just that one day his sacrifice might not be necessary, ie that he'll be allowed to rest in peace instead of being the Seal. That is why it is uninteresting. Nyx is already that. A creature born from mankind's innate desire to die, called and drawn to it. It doesn't need a second monster that also fills that role. And the second thing is, likewise, unnecessary. The original ending made perfect thematic sense. Death is defeated by accepting it and facing it without fear, and the act of doing so is what defeats death symbolically even if it is an actual giant anime attack that does it. The protagonist not dying but being sealed as a statue which may or may not be rescued devalues that because it was accepting death that made it work.
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Dec 12, 2014 17:13
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ImpAtom posted:That is why it is uninteresting. Nyx is already that. A creature born from mankind's innate desire to die, called and drawn to it. It doesn't need a second monster that also fills that role. Eh, not exactly. Nyx is iirc called death, the idea itself, not Mankind's desire for it. So there's room for sometinh that embodies specifically all the things that drives humanity to long for death. And remember, even in vanilla P3, what defeat Nyx is called "The Great Seal", so the MC becoming a seal of sort was planned for the start.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:07
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Iceclaw posted:Eh, not exactly. Nyx is iirc called death, the idea itself, not Mankind's desire for it. So there's room for sometinh that embodies specifically all the things that drives humanity to long for death. And remember, even in vanilla P3, what defeat Nyx is called "The Great Seal", so the MC becoming a seal of sort was planned for the start. Nyx is called by mankind's desire for death, but the Apathy Syndrome was a much better stand-in for why humans sought death and what it meant to give up living. The MC sacrificing himself to stop Nyx and the MC becoming a statue/seal are different things though. The former is what is implied by the original P3, right down to it taking 999 HP to use the Seal and the MC still being walking around (briefly) before he finally succumbs. Plus the entire game is about death.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:10
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ImpAtom posted:
Eh, he died, though, I think that they were pretty insistent on this. So, yeah, some part of him remains as the Seal, but most of it is gone. Especially his body. He won't be resurrected. Now you may hard that humanity forgoing the need for a Seal could cheapen his sacrifice and the theme of the game, but that's another problem: The MC defenitely sacrificed himself knowingly for a greater purpose.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:13
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Everything to do with P3's ending is ridiculously complex and not well-explained in-game, but stupidly important to understanding the plot of P3 and P4. The World Guide background materials are basically required reading if you want to know what is actually going on. It's pretty tl;dr so I'll try to summarize it as best I can. It's still a long-as-gently caress explanation though: Nyx is an alien straight out of HP Lovecraft called a "Star Eater". It smashed into the Earth back when the only form of life was single-celled organisms. The debris from the collision formed around the wounded body of Nyx and became the Moon. Meanwhile, Nyx's very presence on Earth had a devastating effect on all life until the single-celled organisms could adapt to fight it. The means they came up with to deal with Nyx was the "Collective Unconsciousness", a noosphere comprised of the thoughts and dreams of all life. This collective hivemind was powerful enough to subsume Nyx into it and seal it away--as long as living things feared death, their fear would resonate in the CU and have power enough to keep Nyx imprisoned. Separated from its body and with its mind sealed away, Nyx was harmless. Bit of a tangent here, but since it is important--the fragments of Nyx that were left behind, the Shadows, were taken by the single-celled organisms and used to accelerate their evolution. Human beings use Shadows as the basis for their sentience--without a shadow, there is no self-awareness or higher function. Humans without Shadows can be seen in P3 as sufferers of Apathy Syndrome. Although it looks in P3 like the Shadows are attacking the humans who wander into the Dark Hour, what is actually happening is that their own Shadows are awakening to themselves and heading off to Tartarus to fulfill their own goal. When a Shadow awakens, it either is tamed by the ego and becomes a Persona or does its own thing. In P4, awakened Shadows go nuts and try to kill their hosts as a result of the fog. Returning to the main thread: When human beings stop fearing death and start actively welcoming it instead, the results are catastrophic. Not only is the original seal on Nyx weakened, because their psyche is no longer acting to power it, strong collective desires can resonate in the collective unconsciousness and create beings determined to see them brought to fruition. Erebus is one result of this phenomenon, as is Hinokagutsuchi, Ameno-Sagiri, Izanami-no-Okami, Chronos, and who knows what else. Erebus probably would have destroyed the world eventually, but before it could Kouetsu Kirijo and later Shuji Ikutsuki accelerated the process by trying to summon Nyx themselves. Ikutsuki was just a nihilist; who knows what Kouetsu was doing. It's possible he was trying to harness the Shadows' power to become immortal. Once enough powerful Shadows were gathered together thanks to the P3 team, their combined power was enough to create an Avatar of Nyx. Both the Avatar and Tartarus existed for the purpose of summoning Nyx--the tower was like an antenna, and the Avatar's job was to send the signal that would reunite Nyx' mind with its body. Once that happened, all life on Earth would drop dead, and the Shadows would be restored to Nyx, which is their one-and-only goal. P3 MC stops this by becoming a new Seal on Nyx' psyche, preventing the Fall and saving the world. However, the desire of people to die means that Erebus is still trying to destroy the Seal and release Nyx. If it succeeds, Nyx will be summoned regardless. This was the conclusion of the Answer--that they had to fight Erebus. Even if its killed, the original desire to die won't go away, and a new Erebus will be born to take the defeated ones' place. Currently Elizabeth is murdering the new Erebus as it forms while the members of the P3 crew are trying to find a more permanent solution. Christ, that was long. And I still probably got stuff wrong. If only the Answer had more answers in it and less grinding, you wouldn't need a P.hD in RPG Lore to figure out what the gently caress was going on.
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Dec 12, 2014 22:41
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Iceclaw posted:Eh, he died, though, I think that they were pretty insistent on this. So, yeah, some part of him remains as the Seal, but most of it is gone. Especially his body. He won't be resurrected. Now you may hard that humanity forgoing the need for a Seal could cheapen his sacrifice and the theme of the game, but that's another problem: The MC defenitely sacrificed himself knowingly for a greater purpose. He will absolutely be resurrected. There's no other reason to do the seal thing and constantly drop hints about it. It's just a matter of When after the Answer. Vengarr posted:Everything to do with P3's ending is ridiculously complex and not well-explained in-game, but stupidly important to understanding the plot of P3 and P4. Literally none of that actually matters to the plot. Like straight-up. Not a single bit of it has anything to do with the core themes or plot aside from being some meaningless JRPG expanation for something which doesn't need to be explained. It also has nothing at all to do with the plot of P4. It's meaningless errata fluff which can and probably will be ignored by anything in the future. Most of these Japanese behind-the-story sourcebooks are literally just written to bilk otakus out of dollars and not even the actual developers follow them. P3 and P4 are not FFXIII. They don't need stupid out-of-story stuff to explain what happens. They make sense in-context and explain everything necessary. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 23:00
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ImpAtom posted:Not a single bit of it has anything to do with the core themes or plot aside from being some meaningless JRPG expanation for something which doesn't need to be explained. It also has nothing at all to do with the plot of P4. It's meaningless errata fluff which can and probably will be ignored by anything in the future. This is flat-out wrong. They've been running with this theme of gods forming in the collective unconsciousness for 5 straight games, you really think its some kind of accident? The final boss of P4u is literally another version of Erebus trying to summon Nyx with another version of Tartarus, are you positive they've forgotten about this? Everything they've done since P3 has been consistent with the world information they've put out.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:10
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Vengarr posted:This is flat-out wrong. They've been running with this theme of gods forming in the collective unconsciousness for 5 straight games, you really think its some kind of accident? The final boss of P4u is literally another version of Erebus trying to summon Nyx with another version of Tartarus, are you positive they've forgotten about this? Everything they've done since P3 has been consistent with the world information they've put out. Yes. All this stupid bullshit about space aliens is completely and infinitely unimportant. Persona uses the mythological gods as creations of the human mind, which is a core concept of SMT in general, and that is literally the only important thing about it. This is, again, something very common in Japanese media because they love to bilk otakus out of money for explanations that are unnecessary but they demand. It's very often ignored or retconned. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 23:13
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ImpAtom posted:Yes. All this stupid bullshit about space aliens is completely and infinitely unimportant. Persona uses the mythological gods as creations of the human mind, which is a core concept of SMT in general, and that is literally the only important thing about it. Okay glad we sorted that out
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Dec 12, 2014 23:15
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ImpAtom posted:Yes. All this stupid bullshit about space aliens is completely and infinitely unimportant. Persona uses the mythological gods as creations of the human mind, which is a core concept of SMT in general, and that is literally the only important thing about it. This is, again, something very common in Japanese media because they love to bilk otakus out of money for explanations that are unnecessary but they demand. It's very often ignored or retconned. I dunno, I finally got the answer for what the plumes of dusk are.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:18
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They're a Macguffin, the equivalent of nanomachines in Metal Gear.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:33
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Inflammatory posted:default personas? like izanagi and orpheus? you always have those. In Persona 3 once you registered a persona you could buy them back or you could click the left trigger to pick up the same persona without any experience or transferred skills. I thought if they had that then it might be useful for skill extraction from personas when you deleted skills card skills in exchange for more practical abilities (before you inevitably learn that the skill you deleted was incredibly broken if used properly).
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Dec 12, 2014 23:44
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Uh, yeah. You can still register personas and buy them from the compendium in the Velvet Room. What you can't do, ever, is replace your default personas. You can change your sub persona as many times as you want but P4 protag will always have Izanagi, for example.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:47
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Anyone know where I can find a fusion chart? There's this, but it doesn't have any of the unique fusions, which I think Zeus might be.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:57
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Strange Quark posted:Anyone know where I can find a fusion chart? There's this, but it doesn't have any of the unique fusions, which I think Zeus might be. i think i heard that was warrior zeus+seth. Soylentbits posted:In Persona 3 once you registered a persona you could buy them back or you could click the left trigger to pick up the same persona without any experience or transferred skills. I thought if they had that then it might be useful for skill extraction from personas when you deleted skills card skills in exchange for more practical abilities (before you inevitably learn that the skill you deleted was incredibly broken if used properly). oh. no, the only ones you can pull out are the ones you register.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:20
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Personally I feel like the P3MC ending is Less of an actual rescue and more or Elizabeth either joining him in the seal or outright taking the job, letting him rest in peace but eh, grain of salt.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:43
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Inflammatory posted:i think i heard that was warrior zeus+seth. Yeah, I ended up looking that one up. A list still would nice, since I've got 4% still missing and that can't all be Lucifer.
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Dec 13, 2014 02:04
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ImpAtom posted:He will absolutely be resurrected. There's no other reason to do the seal thing and constantly drop hints about it. It's just a matter of When after the Answer. Says you. The Answer clarify what happens to him because apparently, to some players, it wasn't clear the MC was dead. So they did: He's dead, his body is rotting in a grave somewhere. I'm having a hard time believing they will go for a miraculous resurrection out of the blue. All they did was suggest that one day, his sacrifice might not be necessary.
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Dec 13, 2014 02:07
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Strange Quark posted:Yeah, I ended up looking that one up. A list still would nice, since I've got 4% still missing and that can't all be Lucifer. the ones i can think of are michael=gabriel+uriel+raphael beelzebub=baal zebul+astaroth shiva=rangda+barong ardha=shiva+parvati norn=lachesis+clotho+atropos alice=belial+nebiros pale rider=red rider+white rider+black rider black frost=jack frost+pyro jack+king frost
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Dec 13, 2014 02:18
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Inflammatory posted:the ones i can think of are Oh, I think I'm missing four from those. Thanks!
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Dec 13, 2014 02:21
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What skills do you need to make good use of links? I was thinking of making a linking Persona for Kanji.
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Dec 13, 2014 04:34
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Dr. Fetus posted:What skills do you need to make good use of links? I was thinking of making a linking Persona for Kanji. Basically anything that boosts your damage when you go first. First Star, Bloody Vanguard, Dragon Cry, ect. Anything that boots your physical damage is also a plus. Beyond that you want Golden Link, whatever the highest Link + skill you have. (Double, Triple, Quadruple, Infinity) and however many elemental links you can slap on.
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Dec 13, 2014 04:44
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Dr. Fetus posted:What skills do you need to make good use of links? I was thinking of making a linking Persona for Kanji. double/triple/quad/infinite link increase the damage and let it proc multiple times, and golden link increases the damage on each successive hit by a single link. power charge+bestial roar or dragon cry before using a link results in disgusting amounts of damage.
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Dec 13, 2014 04:45
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Dr. Fetus posted:What skills do you need to make good use of links? I was thinking of making a linking Persona for Kanji. Since no one else mentioned it, I'm pretty sure the appropriate elemental boost counts for physical skills.
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Dec 13, 2014 05:14
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