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Larz posted:I've done the same and was wondering this as well. You need to post here in the thread to get accepted, I don't think whoever handles approvals is in the habit of accepting randoms. There are a whole lot of things you can do after you've finished the game once. Yes, it is the overcome challenges -> get rewards -> use rewards to overcome bigger challenges -> get better rewards -> repeat loop that basically every RPG follows, but there are so many different ways you can approach that and long-term goals you can have that it doesn't particularly get boring. Do you want to focus on the ascension game, amassing skills so you can ascend faster so you amass more skills (and improving your own ability to play the game as you go)? Do you want to grab powerful, untradeable gear from high-level zones and bosses (a task which will take you several ascensions across every class in order to accomplish)? Do you want to get into the PvP game, which has its own set of goals and challenges each season? Or do you just want to get enough gear and skills to tour Loathing in comfort, being able to laugh at all the jokes and then take a break until new content comes out with new jokes to laugh at? I'd recommend playing the game without spoilers for your first ascension, maybe only ask for help if you get really stuck somewhere. Going straight to the wiki for the optimal dickstabbing speed strats and not taking the time to enjoy the game along the way seems like a bit of a mistake.
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Dec 12, 2014 15:00
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Jabor posted:
Also, uh, if there are any goons who are playing through the game for the first time and who don't want to brave the wiki for help, but would still like some quest hints, general tips on less obvious game mechanics, and pointers on self sufficiency from a more organic source, you can message me in game, username Gachapon Wizard. KoL is a pretty obtuse game, and while I think it's best played spoiler free, you end up missing out on a lot of fun things without any sort of outer knowledge. I play the most and have the most fun playing Kingdom of Loathing when I'm improving the game experience for new players, and sometimes mentor half a dozen new players at a time, so please message me if you need a spoiler free alternative to the wiki. Amorphous Abode fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 16:25
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Up until the Naughty Sorceress quest (which is being burned down in T minus 18 days,) the game is not nearly as obtuse as it used to be. I think occasionally a newer player will get the "check the wiki or you'll be totally lost" advice from somebody who played eight years ago when it was way less scrutable.
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Dec 12, 2014 17:41
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zapjackson posted:Up until the Naughty Sorceress quest (which is being burned down in T minus 18 days,) the game is not nearly as obtuse as it used to be. I think occasionally a newer player will get the "check the wiki or you'll be totally lost" advice from somebody who played eight years ago when it was way less scrutable. Please dont get rid of the Desktop Globe.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:15
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ayn rand hand job posted:Please dont get rid of the Desktop Globe. Agreed, for most of the tower monsters. The only one that I genuinely have trouble getting the item for is the fried egg, and that's because you have to overcome random chance three times to get it, one of which can't be influenced, rather than two like most (all?) the others. One random chance to fight the black widow, one to get the black picnic basket to drop, and one to get the black pepper from the basket (the one that can't be influenced - you can olfact the spider and increase item drop chance, but nothing improves the chance of the basket producing pepper.) The similar problem with the third gate was mitigated with the blessed large box.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:46
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m2pt5 posted:Agreed, for most of the tower monsters. The only one that I genuinely have trouble getting the item for is the fried egg, and that's because you have to overcome random chance three times to get it, one of which can't be influenced, rather than two like most (all?) the others. One random chance to fight the black widow, one to get the black picnic basket to drop, and one to get the black pepper from the basket (the one that can't be influenced - you can olfact the spider and increase item drop chance, but nothing improves the chance of the basket producing pepper.) The similar problem with the third gate was mitigated with the blessed large box. Black pepper will always drop from the 4th or 5th basket if one has not been found that day.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:48
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I'll find a place for the old tower monsters to live so that people can still collect their factoids.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:52
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m2pt5 posted:Agreed, for most of the tower monsters. The only one that I genuinely have trouble getting the item for is the fried egg, and that's because you have to overcome random chance three times to get it, one of which can't be influenced, rather than two like most (all?) the others. One random chance to fight the black widow, one to get the black picnic basket to drop, and one to get the black pepper from the basket (the one that can't be influenced - you can olfact the spider and increase item drop chance, but nothing improves the chance of the basket producing pepper.) The similar problem with the third gate was mitigated with the blessed large box. ancient spice and powdered organs both can zap into black pepper and if you have any spare clovers the black forest's clover adventure is a basket, for what that's worth
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Dec 12, 2014 19:19
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If you just care about finishing the ascension, the mechanics are a lot less obtuse than they used to be and you can brute force your way through basically everything fairly trivially. However, it will also be fairly slow. With a non-optimized "eat all the interesting stuff I find" diet, you can expect to take days to finish most of the quests past level 6, since you're probably getting 0 adv/spleen and 1-2 adv per stomach/liver and getting maybe ~100 adv/day? Most of those days will be things like "spend 50 adventures here" and "spend 50 adventures here". If you want to avoid this, you're going to have to dive into +/- non-combat, +item, elemental resist, +ML, +prismatic damage, etc, etc. None of these things or their interactions with quest mechanics are explained anywhere in the game. Nowhere. Here's an example mechanic that I've tried to anonymize a bit: Two areas, A and B, open up at the same time. Area A drops widgets(widget production scales with a variety of stats, but you only find this out with trial and error unless you wiki it). If you combine n widgets, you get a superwidget(widgets are consumed when you use them and there's no store interface or anything like that; you will burn widgets trying to find out how you make a superwidget). If you do not make a superwidget, Area B takes 50 adventures to complete and there's nothing you can do about it. If you learn how to make a superwidget, you can cut that time in half(provided you learn the other 3-4 mechanics that the area requires). Maybe by 75%. Not all areas are that bad and you can beat almost every quest now just by flinging adventures into it, but the mechanics are still incredibly obtuse. With that said, my advice is to see all the content and generally fully explore every area you go through, but to jump to the wiki as soon as you think you've seen all the content or you get tired of the area/quest.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:21
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ayn rand hand job posted:Black pepper will always drop from the 4th or 5th basket if one has not been found that day. Huh, did not know that. fits posted:ancient spice and powdered organs both can zap into black pepper and if you have any spare clovers the black forest's clover adventure is a basket, for what that's worth And forgot that. Disregarding zapping and clovers though, that still potentially takes significantly more time to acquire than most of the other tower monster items. It's the only one I can specifically recall in recent memory being annoying to get.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:23
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zapjackson posted:Up until the Naughty Sorceress quest (which is being burned down in T minus 18 days,) the game is not nearly as obtuse as it used to be. I think occasionally a newer player will get the "check the wiki or you'll be totally lost" advice from somebody who played eight years ago when it was way less scrutable. I agree with this mostly and I checked with a friend of mine who just recently started playing at my suggestion. The only quest she said she had a problem with was the MacGuffin quest. When i asked her which part specifically she said, "I can't recall specifically anymore but it was the first time I went to the wiki for a quest walkthrough." For what it's worth I also hate the hell out of the MacGuffin quest. It really seems like it started as a joke about long and tedious MMO quests that itself turned into a long and tedious MMO quest. It's the only part of ascensions I dread doing anymore. I'm really excited to hear about tower changes though. I can't wait to see what it may entail.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:27
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Seravadon posted:I agree with this mostly and I checked with a friend of mine who just recently started playing at my suggestion. The only quest she said she had a problem with was the MacGuffin quest. When i asked her which part specifically she said, "I can't recall specifically anymore but it was the first time I went to the wiki for a quest walkthrough." Honestly, the MacGuffin quest is long but it isn't THAT bad - the Hidden City has less of a shortcut to speed it up than the other parts, but it still has some; you can knock over the dumpster to get janitors out of the other four zones, use a machete to clear off the temples and ziggurat, and do the apartment building before the office building to pick some parts of the McClusky file early.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:54
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m2pt5 posted:Honestly, the MacGuffin quest is long but it isn't THAT bad - the Hidden City has less of a shortcut to speed it up than the other parts, but it still has some; you can knock over the dumpster to get janitors out of the other four zones, use a machete to clear off the temples and ziggurat, and do the apartment building before the office building to pick some parts of the McClusky file early. I know all the tricks to speed it up but it doesn't make me hate it any less. I still find it to be the most boring and tedious part of the game.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:13
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I don't have hard numbers on it or anything, but the Hidden City always feels like the slowest part of an ascension to me, even if I get all the good speed tricks to go off correctly.ayn rand hand job posted:Please dont get rid of the Desktop Globe. Please don't get rid of the vicious easel either, I need my once-per-ascension chance at smug self-satisfaction.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:50
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medibot posted:I don't have hard numbers on it or anything, but the Hidden City always feels like the slowest part of an ascension to me, even if I get all the good speed tricks to go off correctly. Listen to the the star of Roundabout, Jick.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:55
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Yeah, the whole MacGuffin quest turned into a somewhat tolerable, if time consuming quest into a nightmare of little variable and optimization and a whole ton of garbage I hate doing each ascension. It's actually one of the reasons I kinda haven't played for a long time 
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Dec 12, 2014 21:53
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zapjackson posted:I'll find a place for the old tower monsters to live so that people can still collect their factoids. In Styx? Or Pandamonium.
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Dec 12, 2014 22:58
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Kaboobi posted:Yeah, the whole MacGuffin quest turned into a somewhat tolerable, if time consuming quest into a nightmare of little variable and optimization and a whole ton of garbage I hate doing each ascension. It's actually one of the reasons I kinda haven't played for a long time I completely agree. I'm a very lazy player and a hardcore run usually takes me around 6 days or so. I try to optimize, but I hate being fiddly, so I try to do things like sticking with one familiar because I hate changing back and forth - that sort of thing. I love the first few days of playing, where it feels like I'm making progression. But when it comes time to do the MacGuffin quest my motivation to log in plummets. I have more than a handful of 30 or 40 day ascensions where I just hit level 11 and went "nope."
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Dec 13, 2014 03:09
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zapjackson posted:Up until the Naughty Sorceress quest (which is being burned down in T minus 18 days,) the game is not nearly as obtuse as it used to be. I think occasionally a newer player will get the "check the wiki or you'll be totally lost" advice from somebody who played eight years ago when it was way less scrutable. Whats changing w/r/t telescopes then?
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Dec 13, 2014 03:11
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Yeah, the individual area revamps have helped but I would still categorize the level 11 quest as the weakest link in the quest chain. I'm not a serious speedrunner by any means but I'm not a brand new player either; the game has managed to hold at least some of my attention for like 10 years now, which is fairly loving incredible if you think about it. The level 11 quest, since it existed at the advent of NS13, is consistently the point where I drop the game for a few months and then don't touch it until there's a new content update or whatever that gets me going again. I can't even put my finger on exactly why, but there's something about that quest that just evokes feelings of major burnout like nothing else in the game. For some reason, I don't feel this way at ALL about the Mysterious Island war quest -- maybe it's a psychological thing, where, in that quest, everything is neatly self-contained and you have a nice little tracker reminding you that you're making progress in the war no matter how inefficiently, while meanwhile during the level 11 quest if you get bad luck with drops in the pyramid or wherever else it just gives you the sensation that you've been banging your head against a randomly-generated wall for nothing.
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Dec 13, 2014 03:19
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Finally I get to put my dozen spare telescope certificates to use
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Dec 13, 2014 03:19
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By the way, Jick, thanks for posting in here, it's cool. I don't play nearly as much as I used to but it does a lot to build confidence for me to know that devs are trawling the net to interact with players in places other than the official forums (which i basically find unreadable at this point) -- again, I definitely don't log in every day (or week, or sometimes month...) at this point but KoL is still apparently compelling and interesting enough for me to keep up with what's going on in the game 10 years later nonetheless and it's neat to see you involved with the community. Also, if I happen to have your ear, I know it's a really tall order but I can say the one thing that would probably get me to play every day again would be a well-designed, dedicated mobile app. From what I've seen, the recent improvements to the website for mobile browser view make the game playable on a phone, which is a great start, but I can still picture a KoL totally optimized for phones (in the way an app can do and a mobile view in a browser really can't) and it's great and it would probably make the game the same go-to timewaster for me that it was 10 years ago during study hall in highschool. For what it's worth, I'd even totally pay for it
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Dec 13, 2014 03:30
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Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm just starting on the MacGuffin quest, so I will post my thoughts on it after running through it the first time.
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Dec 13, 2014 03:32
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I guess as now is as a good time as any. Hey Jick, sorry about the Bricko thing.
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Dec 13, 2014 04:12
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For what it's worth, the level 11 quest was not meant to be a parody of tedious MMORPG quests -- only the desert part was, and that has since been changed to be much, much friendlier. It's weird. To me, the level 12 quest seems insanely boring. But I guess clicking 300 times on one zone doesn't feel as tedious to people as clicking 20 times each in 15 zones? The level 11 and 12 quests both need to have a lot going on in them, because it takes a lot to level from 11-13. If the quests were shorter, there'd be this huge, aimless section late in an ascension where you just had to grind out the level. So we tried to vary them up, and I think in doing so we made them both fairly polarizing, at least as they were first implemented. There must be something about the way level 11 presents itself that creates this frustration. Structurally, it's a short quest (Black Forest,) then 3 short quests you can do in any order (Hidden City, Spookyraven, Palindome,) then another short quest (Desert -> Pyramid). Is it just that there's a unified throughline to it that makes it seem like one super long quest? The thing I used to be the most dissatisfied with about the level 11 quest was that you never really had any indication of where you were supposed to go or what you were supposed to do next. And when you looked it up in the wiki, it often turned out to be something that made no sense relative to where you were. And I feel like I've fixed this over the past year by replacing all of the elements of it with more self-contained things with clearer individual goals, but it's obviously still delivering the same feelings of being overwhelming and long. Those of you in this thread who feel frustrated by the level 11 quest: When is the last time you played it? Do you have the Quest Tracker turned on? Have you been playing the game since before NS13? Do you still do the pirate branch instead of the Copperhead one? If so, why? Do you feel that the level 11 quest is worse now than it was a couple of years ago?
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Dec 14, 2014 18:35
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I don't like suffering an unremovable status debuff for extended periods of time there's also no really easy way to prep the zeppelin until you get there in hardcore. Note: I like the level 11 quest.
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Dec 14, 2014 18:47
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I've gone with the pirates every time, except when the Copperhead quest was introduced and I wanted to see how it worked. In my runs, there tends to be a good spot around level 7 when I need some stats anyway, and that's when I do the pirates quest. Furthermore, I almost never need to go out of my way to get extra stats once I hit level 11 -- I'm generally hitting level 12 somewhere in the middle of the pyramid. The level 11 quest feels basically okay to me apart from the hidden city: something about it just makes it feel like I have twice as many details I need to be keeping track of, which means there are twice as many ways to screw it up and waste resources. This might be more a symptom of a character with a lot of optimization tools trying to optimize in goofy ways, though. Thinking more about the level 11 and level 12 quests: both of the quests of components of "do a small step", the difference being that 11 is "do a series of small steps, then you're done" and 12 is "doing a small step makes the big step smaller". So, when I finish a side area in the war, I feel like I get a big reward: my warmongering ability gets doubled each time, which is like being given a few hundred adventures for free. On the other hand, finishing a step in the level 11 quest feels like I've just crossed yet another item off a shopping list. I mean, I guess I get a spectre scepter somewhere along the line, and that's a cute and unique item. I guess what I'm trying to say is: if the intermediate rewards in the level 11 quest were stronger, more useful, or more interesting, it might alleviate some of the feelings of being boring or bad.
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Dec 14, 2014 19:11
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zapjackson posted:Those of you in this thread who feel frustrated by the level 11 quest: When is the last time you played it? Do you have the Quest Tracker turned on? Have you been playing the game since before NS13? Do you still do the pirate branch instead of the Copperhead one? If so, why? Do you feel that the level 11 quest is worse now than it was a couple of years ago? I usually still do the pirate branch for a few reasons - you can do most of it before level 11, (assuming you took a knoll sign and picked up 3 hot wings in the Friars' quest, which is extremely likely) the frat house blueprints are a piece of cake, I like the reward (the fledges), the bridge is useful for accelerating the level 9 quest, and if you do the optional second part of the level 9 quest you get the facsimile dictionary, which is good for a chunk of meat in HC/ronin. (Also the outfit isn't a hassle to get, just yellow ray a pirate.) As for the rest of the L11 quest (my opinions): Hidden Temple/City: if you don't activate Dakota before doing the Friars' quest (or at least wait until hitting mainstat 35 [6 points beyond level 6]) before doing the Dark Heart of the Woods, it feels faster to unlock the hidden temple the old way. (I don't know if it actually is, but it certainly feels faster, especially with having to make an extra run through the daily dungeon to get another fat loot token.) As for the hidden city itself, the office building feels long because you have to hit the noncombat twice, and the bowling alley feels long because you have to get 5 bowling balls and hit the same noncombat 5 times. I do like the change of not having to figure out which sphere is which, though. Spookyraven: I'm not 100% sure, but the bomb feels a hell of a lot faster than the mortar-dissolving solution. I do prefer it over needing to find three specific wines across four areas, though. Desert: Doesn't seem that bad to me, besides eating your offhand slot for the duration of the exploration. With some luck it's possible to spend as little as 13 adventures in the desert, but it's unlikely all the worm-riding manual pages will drop in the 8 adventures after finding Gnasir. Pyramid: I like the changes here (especially the exclusive use of items as opposed to the wheel-turning noncombat,) the positioning of the rooms on the lower floor is much more clear, and using almost exclusively tomb ratchets is entirely viable. I would like to see an indicator in the control room showing how many wheels/ratchets you have left on-hand, though. Edit: Also, the after-quest rewards in the L12 quest for doing the sidequests are nice, especially the hippy stand, the nuns (both versions), and the arena (both versions.) (Naturally the opposing-side versions of the nuns and arena are nicer, but whatever.) There aren't really any notable reusable persistent rewards from the L11 quest. m2pt5 fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 19:15
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zapjackson posted:It's weird. To me, the level 12 quest seems insanely boring. But I guess clicking 300 times on one zone doesn't feel as tedious to people as clicking 20 times each in 15 zones? I'd agree with this. The level 11 quest can induce major decision fatigue. Each of those 15 zones involves different decisions about how to gear, what buffs to put on, what combat items you need to use, what noncombat choices to pick, when to move to the next zone, etc. In the level 12 quest, the decision work is delegated to starting the war, completing the optional sidequests, and then just pounding out adventures to fight the war (get MP/HP regen high enough to sustain yourself, buff items, then go to town). Once you've done it a couple times, It's really no more complicated decision-wise than the level 9 or 10 quests.
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Dec 14, 2014 19:30
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For context, I've been playing since before NS13 sporadically, I occasionally buy a new IOTM if I feel like it, and I don't care that much about playing optimally. Here's a few rambly thoughts on the level 11 quest in no particular order. -Basically every other quest in the game has its own little zone. You step into the zone, do the things you need to do, and finish the quest. The level 11 quest is spread over like 100 other zones, half of which you have to finish some other little quest to unlock. Psychologically, it's daunting, and in terms of mouse clicks, you wind up spending a lot of time navigating maps. -I did the zeppelin quest once, and then decided to just keep doing pirates every time. It seems like a well made quest, but I can't really be arsed to learn a whole new version of what I've already been doing for probably no benefit. I enjoyed the jokes the first time through, though. -The quest itself has no rewards. Even when you finish it, the game gives you an ironic pile of confetti. I get the joke, but it really throws the whole "you just wasted your time" theme of the quest in your face. -The quest is insanely fiddly. Even for someone who doesn't spend much time optimizing, you're encouraged to go into your massively cluttered inventory and change equipment about 500 times, and you're encouraged to swap your buffs around about 500 times. Even with macros or mafia or whatever it's a total hassle to do that for every little tiny sub-goal of the quest. At least for the level 12 quest you can pretty much get yourself set up and then go bang it out without the constant menus. -I tend to do one quest and then the next in sequential order and constantly forget to do the subgoals when I unlock them. As a result, I'll often hit level 11 without unlocking the pirates or the desert beach or any part of the mansion, and it just makes the quest that much longer and more frustrating. I wind up thinking "okay, so in order to get this piece of the staff, I have to go buy a maiden wig so that I can unlock the next part of the pirate quest, so that I can eventually get into the palindome, so that I can..." and I get burned out. I don't know what I'd recommend in terms of "fixing" it to reduce the level of burnout it induces, so this post is probably totally worthless. Sorry about that.
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Dec 14, 2014 20:15
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zapjackson posted:For what it's worth, the level 11 quest was not meant to be a parody of tedious MMORPG quests -- only the desert part was, and that has since been changed to be much, much friendlier. It's more idiot-proof with the complicated bits made into optional side-quests, but that doesn't change the fact that you took a parody of "farm monsters to collect 15 pages" quests and made it into an actual "farm monsters to collect 15 pages" quest. That's what people have been shaking their heads and "tsk, tsk"ing at.
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Dec 14, 2014 23:47
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Crimbo town is here! Build a better robot with schematics! My robot is the best and my robot is completely indestructible.
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Dec 15, 2014 05:12
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Level 12 is pretty satisfying because you do your setup and then click through and look at your items you get and the damage you do and sometimes you see a war hero which is fun. Level 11 requires a ton of fiddly prep in low level zones that you don't care about so it's extremely unfun and punishing if you missed something on the way up. When you get into it, it's a lot of item and familiar swapping and using of inventory items and then you click ten times and have to go back and change everything - except if you have to click more than ten times and god help you then because now your run is ruined and you're sitting there looking at worthless noncombats getting madder and madder. Then when you finish the whole thing the game tells you the whole thing was a hilarious practical joke at your expense, except it's the same joke as the last 49 times I did it and will be the same joke the next 50 times I do it and it doesn't seem very funny. How to fix it I'm not sure, it's kind of the ultimate example of why kol can be aggravating. All the choices are prep which you do pre-adventure and are a series of menus where you ctrl-f for ring of agg a lot. Fundamentally that's what the game is though and that's fine - the level 11 quest just brings out all the worst aspects of it.
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Dec 15, 2014 05:36
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Yeah most people have already covered it but level 11 suffers from a severe lack of focus inherent in its design (diary, scavenger hunt, assembly of the staff) that makes it more of a pain compared to level 12, which is mostly contained by the battlefield. You can choose to switch gears and complete filthworms, nuns, etc. but it all plays out within the scope of the battlefield. I like the level 11 quest, but I would also say that it's the quest that eventually led me to drop the game. For your stats, I was an '03 signup with well over 100 ascensions, stopped playing shortly after the Hidden City revamp. I'm curious to know if you collect any stats on people actually playing the game, like how much time they spend on various zones, etc. I think the various revamps, although they were all very good on their own (I like the new Baron quest), moved ascensions out of the sweet spot in terms of how many days it takes to finish one complete cycle. To compensate it seems like a lot of "better" food/drink/spleen were gradually added but they only compounded the problem by making the player tread water - in order to finish an ascension in the same amount of real-life days as before, I had to work far longer per day and eventually it became too much of a time investment. Plus all the effects, familiars, and optimization choices. I'm sure there's a significant amount of speedrunners that enjoy the choices but I just fell in that unhappy realm of people that care enough to optimize but don't care enough to put the effort into it. On a different note I didn't like the monetization aspect. IOTMs were nice and all but I think KoL is probably past the point of no return on establishing a game mode that doesn't rely on them. I know Trendy exists but unless things have changed significantly it just didn't get any traction with the playerbase. I absolutely love the idea of challenge paths and almost exclusively played them for a while but eventually I caught on that right after a new challenge path showed up an IOTM would materialize with huge advantages (Jarls's pan, Boris's helmet, etc.), and that rubbed me the wrong way. Also burn all the bugmeat forever
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Dec 15, 2014 06:43
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Did you know that all challenge paths are (sort-of) Trendy now? For the 3 months that they're current, they all have similar restrictions to Trendy
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Dec 15, 2014 06:58
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goferchan posted:Did you know that all challenge paths are (sort-of) Trendy now? For the 3 months that they're current, they all have similar restrictions to Trendy To elaborate on this, from the wiki: "You will not be allowed to use limited-time content that is older than January of (path's starting date's year minus 2). For example, in the Winter 2014 challenge path which begins November 15, 2014 and ends February 14, 2015 you will not be allowed to use limited-time content from before January 2012. This restriction is also known as "Type 69", because the in-game list of disallowed items has the URL type69.php. " Also, "The Type 69 restriction ends when Ronin ends, and never applies to past Special Challenge Paths. "
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Dec 15, 2014 07:26
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Just how rare are the schematics you randomly get on adventures that they are over a million meat in the mall? I got meat to burn, but if I can grind away at some random area and get them, I won't bother mall-buying them.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:27
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SnotGrumble posted:Just how rare are the schematics you randomly get on adventures that they are over a million meat in the mall? I've seen maybe 3 or 4 in about 2000 turns of adventuring.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:48
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zapjackson posted:Those of you in this thread who feel frustrated by the level 11 quest: When is the last time you played it? Do you have the Quest Tracker turned on? Have you been playing the game since before NS13? Do you still do the pirate branch instead of the Copperhead one? If so, why? Do you feel that the level 11 quest is worse now than it was a couple of years ago? The last time I played it back was back in Slow and Steady, and I did not play before NS13. My biggest problem with the L11 quest is probably the pirates. They feel so old and clunky compared to the revamped quests, and I utterly hate the unmitigable RNG of the Barrr. The thing is, I still did them every ascension because they're so much faster than the Copperhead quest and I can set them up in dead time prior to L11. They're just so much better than the Copperhead quest in terms of turncount/optimality that it's basically impossible to every justify the Copperhead quest if you care about that kind of thing. I've always been baffled that you guys would put all that time and work into the Copperhead quest(which is full of interesting mechanics and good content) and then leave the pirates intact. Your awesome new quest was basically a dead end as soon as it was released; I did it once and was like "well, that was fun, but it's worse for my run than the pirates in practically every single way so I'm probably never going to do it again", which was a really disappointing feeling. That aside, I like the new L11 quest much more than the old one. The Hidden City has all kinds of neat tricks, and the Desert is much less irritating than the old one if just because it no longer felt like I was just yanking the lever on a slot machine and waiting for a win. My only problem with L11 is that baffling decision to obsolete the Copperheads on their release date.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:47
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 09:34 |
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I don't know if Jick caught my effortpost last month: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3659981&pagenumber=8&perpage=40#post437968092 But, to sum up, I'm a fairly new player, only having played for a few months and a little over a dozen ascensions. I looked over the wiki at the variations of stuff I've never done and see no reason to ever do Hippies/Copperhead/WineHunt over Frat/Pirates/Bomb. Like, it doesn't seem worthwhile ever. The worst parts of a typical ascension for me are: #3: Any portion of any quest where you have to give up your weapon slot. It's not even that these are always difficult, but giving up access to a bunch of my class skills and often being screwed on being able to actually hit stuff (because I'm using the wrong weapon type for my class) is not fun. It's not engaging or innovative. It's annoying and frustrating. #2: Spookyraven Manor: The manor doesn't fall into the typical quest chain until the MacGuffin portion and by then, the everything preceding is trivial, and to cap it off, the shortcuts on the early bits (Hot/Stench resist, hitting the pool table with 8-10 drunk) aren't conducive to hitting it when you are in the appropriate level range. #1: The Pyramid: It seems like this is 100% designed around having olfaction + enough stuff to force through a super high drop rate, but I've sunk an embarrassing amount of turns into trying to get the ratchets before. Nowadays, I think I would just stack +NC and do the top floor after I've done the middle enough to unlock the chambers, but that can still be a slog. Farming up 10 ratchets/wheels after farming up 15 worm pages sure feels like you've crossed over the line of lovely parody into lovely quest. Special mention to gremlins. Because gently caress gremlins. Anyway, my biggest pet peeve in the game right now outside of the Pyramid is lousy, outdated rewards. The legendary/epic class stuff, the confetti, the Giant Trash gear (Holy poo poo the Giant Trash gear). Also, please drop the Myst req on Fledges by 10-15 so non-Myst classes can actually use it at a reasonable point after getting it instead of having to let it rot.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:29
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