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Barry Convex posted:It's not that it's impossible; it's that it does absolutely nothing to make the Inhumans property more accessible to the majority of the film audience that doesn't watch the show, quite the opposite in fact. You're right, but this is becoming less and less of a big deal. Just 10 or 15 years ago, serialized TV was often avoided for similar reasons to what you're talking about here. If someone jumped in half way through, or missed a couple episodes, the series would be less accessible. But times have changed with the technology, and worrying that your viewers won't know what's going on in the show is less and less of a concern. Netflix and various other on-demand TV services have been a massive boon to serialized TV, and this trend is only going to accelerate. I imagine that, even in 2018, asking people to watch four seasons of Agents of SHIELD would still be too much, but maybe optionally encouraging people to watch a few episodes, or the most recent season, or a TV special or something? Hell, it might be worth it if they can use the MCU as a springboard to create some kind of wildly successful TV venture. This would be another big risk, like the Avengers project was, but what would it mean for them if they could pull it off? You've been arguing all along that the TV side of the MCU is just a side-project that isn't really important, and you're right, for now. But I bet they'd love for that not to be the case. Imagine if Marvel could have three or four shows a year that were all as popular as Game of Thrones, instead of little barely-watched sideshows like SHIELD. Well, to do that, they gotta commit. Serialized, interwoven storytelling in media was feared for a long time because of the double-edged sword. It does make it harder to bring in new viewers, you're right, but it's so deeply powerful for engaging & keeping current viewers that you can't just write off its merits. Marvel already has pretty much all the viewers. People will come out in droves for any Marvel film. Maybe it's worth it to use a movie as a glorified commercial for their TV properties.
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Dec 12, 2014 22:13
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The first bit of Avengers after the mandatory action opening was quickly and efficiently introducing the characters and their traits before getting into the plot though. Also Barry you are dead wrong about GotG but I agree with you, crazy as that sounds, that they will most likely not lean on the show for the Inhumans movie (it could very well be cancelled long before then). Given that Feige et al have said they are mostly doing away with origin stories I think we'll see quickly established characters sans background and any background we get will be revealed through the plot or through banter as opposed to BEING the plot. Also, as I posted before, they aren't going to hurt their premiere weekend by making the first Inhumans movie part three in a story where part 1 and 2 were on TV 4 years prior. It will be accessible to mass audiences because they are not stupid. Martout fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 22:28
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Barry Convex posted:I think this is threatening to turn into semantic hair-splitting, so I'm not going to argue the point further. You literally just spent several pages arguing about wether this series was doing the Inhumans that was not but you doing semantic hair-splitting.
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Dec 12, 2014 22:41
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XboxPants posted:You're right, but this is becoming less and less of a big deal. Just 10 or 15 years ago, serialized TV was often avoided for similar reasons to what you're talking about here. If someone jumped in half way through, or missed a couple episodes, the series would be less accessible. But times have changed with the technology, and worrying that your viewers won't know what's going on in the show is less and less of a concern. Eh, it's an interesting idea, I'll say that much, but the disadvantages on the film side would still seem to outweigh the advantages for the TV side. And say what you will, but I'm just not ready to believe that TV is so important to Studios that they've plotted their films, or will start plotting them, for the next four and a half years around TV. I'm (reasonably) sure that the film debut of the Inhumans, whether it's in AOU or later, will be consistent with but in no way dependent on anything from SHIELD. PriorMarcus posted:You literally just spent several pages arguing about wether this series was doing the Inhumans that was not but you doing semantic hair-splitting. You're largely right, which is why I'm trying not to do that again. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 22:46
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I feel like trying to figure this out when the Inhumans movie is so far away is kind of dumb. Who's to say they aren't planning an Inhuman show in the vein of Game of Thrones? Who knows how the promoting of the film itself will be, there could be some key element that connects everything. We are speculating about something that has quite honestly a ton of possibilities. EDIT: On top of all that who's to say it isn't possible that the Inhumans are introduced fully in the films before it? See, just leads nowhere.
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Dec 12, 2014 22:56
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I actually think Barry Convex has eaten enough crow at this point, guys. Yeah, he was wrong, and spent a lot of time rationalizing how he wasn't wrong before he was forced to admit that he was wrong. But loving everyone does that all the time, especially on the internet.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:01
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Barry Convex posted:Eh, it's an interesting idea, I'll say that much, but the disadvantages on the film side would still seem to outweigh the advantages for the TV side. Yeah, don't get me wrong I realize it's totally wild, freak speculation that's really unlikely as things stand right now. The safe bet is everything you say. It's just that it seems like they keep inching a little closer to overturning those safe bets, so it's interesting to think about how far that might go.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:02
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Elucidarius posted:EDIT: On top of all that who's to say it isn't possible that the Inhumans are introduced fully in the films before it? See, just leads nowhere. That's definitely not impossible; I just don't see a ton of room for Attilan or the classic characters in any of the films releasing before 2018. But I may change my mind as we find out more about AOU and the films beyond it. Your idea of a GoT-inspired TV series is also really interesting, but I think the challenge of getting actors to sign on for both multiple TV seasons and multiple films would ultimately prove too impractical. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 00:20
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Barry Convex posted:Your idea of a GoT-inspired TV series is also really interesting, but I think the challenge of getting actors to sign on for both multiple TV seasons and multiple films would ultimately prove too impractical. I'm not sure what people mean by a GoT-inspired show (just a prestige drama that's heavily serialized and large-scale? Or something more specific?) But it sounds pretty much exactly like what Marvel is currently doing with its Defenders projects. They're going to be heavily serialized runs of ~13 episode arcs, exploring related characters in a wider context of criminal New York. And Daredevil has already attracted Charlie Cox from Boardwalk Empire, Rosario Dawson, and Vincent D'Onofrio...all of whom super competent actors with experience doing features. Marvel already locks actors into 9-picture deals for their features, and these television projects seem to be aiming at (and successfully getting) high-caliber talent. So, why is the idea of crossing between film and TV so unlikely? You could do a billion times worse than pulling Vincent D'Onofrio to play Kingpin in a feature release, if they had a reason to do so. Just as they've already had Samuel L. Jackson cameo on Agents of SHIELD (twice, actually.)
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Dec 13, 2014 01:10
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Baseless prediction time: "Infinity Wars (Part 1)" will end with the Terrigen Mist being released, and Inhumans will be about Medusa's attempts to deal with this. The Royal Family will probably be introduced during the Avengers film and their backstory (Maximus and his schemes, Black Bolt's "imprisonment", their eugenics programs) will be elaborated upon in either flashbacks or dialogue during Inhumans. Source: The scene in which the Mist was released in the comics is one of my favourite parts from my favourite event in recent comics (not that there's been much competition), and I need to see it in a movie.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:16
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Xealot posted:Just as they've already had Samuel L. Jackson cameo on Agents of SHIELD (twice, actually.) I was thinking about this the other day. Season 1 had 4 movie actors cameo in it: Samuel L. Jackson (Nick Fury), Cobie Smulders (Maria Hill), Jamie Alexander (Sif), and Maximiliano Hernández (Jasper Sitwell). Interestingly, Season 2 has had namedrops (Fury, Pierce), but no cameos.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:18
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Kheldarn posted:
Agent Carter was in the episode where they learned about Whitehall's past.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:26
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Potsticker posted:Agent Carter was in the episode where they learned about Whitehall's past. Ah, right. And she (Hayley Atwell) was also in the very first episode of Season 2, along with Dum Dum Duggan (Neal MacDonough) and Jim Morita (Kenneth Choi).
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Dec 13, 2014 01:35
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Xealot posted:They're going to be heavily serialized runs of ~13 episode arcs, exploring related characters in a wider context of criminal New York. And Daredevil has already attracted Charlie Cox from Boardwalk Empire, Rosario Dawson, and Vincent D'Onofrio...all of whom super competent actors with experience doing features. Eh... I sort of see your point, but the Netflix commitments (one season for now, plus Defenders in 2016 or whenever it shoots, plus a few pre-Defenders guest appearances on the other shows) aren't nearly as demanding as multiple seasons of TV plus multiple films, many of which would probably be shot fairly close together (depending on whether this hypothetical Inhumans TV series ends before the film or runs semi-concurrently with it). Marvel also has no intent of actually using most of the film actors for nine films, and it's not as though they're shot back-to-back. Additionally, while I can maybe see it with Cox, and we'll see who they cast for Iron Fist, Krysten Ritter and Mike Colter are a long way from the level of talent you'd cast as the lead in a $170 million film.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:47
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Kheldarn posted:Ah, right. And she (Hayley Atwell) was also in the very first episode of Season 2, along with Dum Dum Duggan (Neal MacDonough) and Jim Morita (Kenneth Choi). Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about that.
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Dec 13, 2014 01:51
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Barry Convex posted:Additionally, while I can maybe see it with Cox, and we'll see who they cast for Iron Fist, Krysten Ritter and Mike Colter are a long way from the level of talent you'd cast as the lead in a $170 million film. They're not nearly as prominent as the Australian actor best known for playing Kirk's dad in the Star Trek prologue, or the guy who plays Andy on Parks & Recreation. Those are the kind of well-established power talent you need to drive $170 Million films.
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Dec 13, 2014 02:35
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I have a few pages left to wade through but did anyone mention a side effect of Trip's death (besides emotional trauma for Skye/Daisy) is that it reinforces everyone's belief that the thing the obelisk does kills regular people. There were no witnesses of him unaffected by the mist, or of his impalement, and the evidence of that has been destroyed thanks to Skye quaking out.
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Dec 13, 2014 03:03
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I just think its sad that Trip died thinking that Skye was dead or something.
lomzus fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 03:06
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The Sharmat posted:I actually think Barry Convex has eaten enough crow at this point, guys. Yeah, he was wrong, and spent a lot of time rationalizing how he wasn't wrong before he was forced to admit that he was wrong. But loving everyone does that all the time, especially on the internet. Yeah but while he was eating that nice fruity humble pie, he was busy baking a couple more.
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Dec 13, 2014 03:29
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lomzus posted:I just think its sad that Trip died thinking that Skye was dead or something. Yeah, right? He sees Skye get encased in stone, and so he lashes out at the crystals to try and break the "spell". And in so doing kills himself while Skye/Daisy looks on. Classic Whedon.
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Dec 13, 2014 04:02
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Rocksicles posted:Yeah but while he was eating that nice fruity humble pie, he was busy baking a couple more. Feel free to point out anything I'm factually wrong about, then. Xealot posted:They're not nearly as prominent as the Australian actor best known for playing Kirk's dad in the Star Trek prologue, or the guy who plays Andy on Parks & Recreation. Those are the kind of well-established power talent you need to drive $170 Million films. Ha, okay, you might have a point. Still seems like it'd entail a pretty unprecedented cross-media contract, but I won't call it impossible. I will say that I don't currently see Attilan or the Royal Family getting any significant screen time before 2018, but I'm open to reconsidering that as things develop. (But if they do, it's highly unlikely to be on this show)
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Dec 13, 2014 04:33
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Barry Convex posted:I will say that I don't currently see Attilan or the Royal Family getting any significant screen time before 2018, but I'm open to reconsidering that as things develop. (But if they do, it's highly unlikely to be on this show) The way I see it, what we're more likely to see is the Royal Family and a Terrigen bomb before Avengers 3. gently caress, we might even see it the bomb at the start of Cap 3 so that there are actually people to register. The Royal Family up until their film might be like Thanos in Phase 2, a teaser here, an enigmatic film appearance there, and ARE SHIELD AGENTZ might turn up filling similar roles to characters like Sitwell, Coulson and Hill in previous films: recurring but forgettable secondary characters who are part of a cross-media marketing initiative.
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Dec 13, 2014 04:56
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Barry Convex posted:Feel free to point out anything I'm factually wrong about, then. Bro, I dig holes for a living, not about to start digging myself one next to yours. Fair play though, you know how to dig upwards.
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Dec 13, 2014 05:07
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Barry Convex posted:Ha, okay, you might have a point. Still seems like it'd entail a pretty unprecedented cross-media contract, but I won't call it impossible. That's what's sort of fascinating about the media landscape right now...a lot of weird stuff is happening. Production that's aesthetically great isn't necessarily expensive. New exhibition formats make it totally feasible to make complex and hyper-serialized stories, and some of the best characters in fiction are on TV. The entire framework for what is or isn't prestige, and regarding how people consume media in general, has been ripped apart. Basically, the notion that feature film is the premium format has eroded. Also, with respect to actors: in the 90's, I'd have agreed with you. Some nobody like Chris Hemsworth wouldn't have been able to support a giant action franchise, because it was a time when Will Smith or Tom Cruise or whoever could open a film regardless of what it was. But I'd say the lesson of the past 15 years has been that IP is king. Marvel can cast relative unknowns and rely on their IP and their reputation, and still bank $700 Million. Meanwhile, After Earth crashed and burned. That's why the Hollywood industry event now is Comicon. The gist of what I'm saying is, a lot of unprecedented things are happening. And it wouldn't surprise me for Marvel to be the one to attempt those things because of what a powerhouse they've become.
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Dec 13, 2014 07:07
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On a slightly different note, Marvel's EIC answers a question I've been wondering about for a while, regarding the upcoming TV-inspired, 616-set SHIELD comic, or rather the marketing thereof:quote:Let's stick with the spider theme, as Spidey616 is curious about some recent revelations on "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." and how it may affect the upcoming "S.H.I.E.L.D." comic book series: "Way back at SDCC when the new S.H.I.E.L.D. ongoing was announced as bringing in characters from the 'Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.' show into the comics, a cover by Mike Deodato was released featuring among other characters, Skye. Given the latest reveal of Skye as an established Marvel character I'm curious when the image was first created did editorial not know ahead of time about the reveal. That said, do you plan on introducing a new Skye character into the comics or will that established Marvel character be returning to S.H.I.E.L.D. in Mark Waid's series?" The cover in question, for those who've forgotten it:  Gotta admit, that was a pretty good red herring. It actually had me believing for a while that Skye was an original character... though eventually, her absence from any other promo materials for the new series (interviews, solicits, covers) got kind of conspicuous.
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Dec 13, 2014 07:18
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^^^^ Who are the people shooting guns? And what/who is that monkey?
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Dec 13, 2014 08:42
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Tarquinn posted:And what/who is that monkey? Fitz finally got what he wanted 
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Dec 13, 2014 08:47
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A buddy of mine suggested that Agent 33 could become Madame Masque, for obvious reasons. Although in the comics she's never been particularly Hydra-related, Quake wasn't an Inhuman so it could make sense, especially if there is any awkwardness with the rights, what with Viper being in The Wolverine. She might just go freelance with Ward anyway, to resurface in case Hydra gets temporarily knocked out by SHIELD, or just to be a further complicating factor. If she does become Madame Masque, I would then expect that Kate Bishop shows up in a sun hat to mess with her. 
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Dec 13, 2014 14:20
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I think it's more likely she would be Madame Hydra. Especially since they've already said they love Secret Warriors.
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Dec 13, 2014 14:42
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If she becomes Madame Masque they can have the Illuminati exchange about her with Ward and Skye in place of Stark and Namor.
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Dec 13, 2014 18:11
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Metalshark posted:If she does become Madame Masque, I would then expect that Kate Bishop shows up in a sun hat to mess with her.
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Dec 13, 2014 18:28
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Barry Convex posted:And say what you will, but I'm just not ready to believe that TV is so important to Studios that they've plotted their films, or will start plotting them, for the next four and a half years around TV. Reminder: Marvel Studios is owned by the company that used to make flowcharts so you can keep track of what books you need to read to figure out the entire plot of a story: 
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Dec 13, 2014 20:02
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HotCanadianChick posted:Reminder: Marvel Studios is owned by the company that used to make flowcharts so you can keep track of what books you need to read to figure out the entire plot of a story: Use to? I read through Infinity on the Marvel Unlimited site and each issue had the same thing in it.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:11
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Whitehall is confirmed to still be alive. Source: The dream I just had where he was involved in all sorts of hijinx, such as falling off a cliff for a bit and landing on unsteady ground alongside his henchman. Also, apparently people wear big shirts with "SHIELD" and "HYDRA" on them, and need to dramatically take off one of those shirts when revealing they are a double agent.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:15
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Moriatti posted:I would pretty much love any appearance by an MCU Kate Bishop. She'd be a great addition to the TV branch in one way or another. A Young Avengers movie would be rad, too. NowonSA posted:Whitehall is confirmed to still be alive. I want to watch your version of the show now.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:56
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redshirt posted:Yeah, right? He sees Skye get encased in stone, and so he lashes out at the crystals to try and break the "spell". I really liked that scene and I can't say for sure why. I think the sad music makes it. NowonSA posted:Whitehall is confirmed to still be alive. So basically it's all pro-wrestling turns. That sounds awesome.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:16
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PunkBoy posted:So basically it's all pro-wrestling turns. That sounds awesome. I guess that means Hydra is playing the role of ECW.
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Dec 13, 2014 22:34
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PunkBoy posted:I really liked that scene and I can't say for sure why. I think the sad music makes it. If he'd just chilled for a little bit he'd have been fine but I suppose BJ Britt has a life outside all the stuff he's appearing in. Or wants to have one at the very least.
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Dec 13, 2014 22:36
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Codependent Poster posted:I think it's more likely she would be Madame Hydra. Especially since they've already said they love Secret Warriors. If Agent 33 is unable/unwilling to remove the mask, it makes sense since Madama Hydra often has hair covering half her face. I kind of assumed that since she still looked like May, but with that creepy scar.
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Dec 13, 2014 22:50
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I think Agent 33 is just Agent 33. Or will be a much more minor character. She seemed really weak after Whitehall died. She's like Ward, she needs someone to follow, she's not a leader, I don't think she has Madame Hydra potential.
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Dec 14, 2014 02:36
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