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Victor Vermis posted:I don't know how anyone hits adulthood
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Dec 13, 2014 19:29
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i'm pro-whatever removes the evolutionary mistake of homo sapiens i'm anti half-assed measures to achieve that goal
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Dec 13, 2014 19:38
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Victor Vermis posted:Acknowledging something exists isn't the same thing as calling for a massive military intervention boondoggle to address it, though. The persistent belief in American exceptionalism makes "hey we can show people the light, it'll work, ya just gotta believe" an easy sell to the American people from anyone who wants to start a war anywhere. If also means that if you are arguing against the war being a smart idea, you are arguing against America being special, and therefore hate America and are bad. America hasn't tasted real war on its own soil since 1865 so most Americans genuinely do believe we have bad-guy seeking bullets and that the rest of the world yearns to become exactly like Nebraska, if only some noble and pure American Soldiers show them the way and shoot enough of their relatives.
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Dec 13, 2014 19:47
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I am perfectly okay with "Kick their rear end and take their gas" if we could adequately kick their rear end, or successfully take their gas.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:10
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Vasudus posted:I am perfectly okay with "Kick their rear end and take their gas" if we could adequately kick their rear end, or successfully take their gas. Agreed. I think we'll have to settle with "deny them their gas" because LOL at a SOVEREIGN STATE OF CARTOON TERRORISTS being permitted the necessary infrastructure required to support themselves. gently caress yo' refinery. gently caress yo' pipelines.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:12
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Outside of hundreds of thousands of innocent people dying in the region, I just don't see the credible doomsday scenario that ISIS poses. Technologically they're incapable of doing anything of value and there's just no loving point in bothering. They sure as poo poo aren't going to be able to roll over the Iranians, because despite their hilarious North Korea esque antics, they can actually fight. It's not like these idiots are even good at genocide in the first place. Best Friends posted:The persistent belief in American exceptionalism makes "hey we can show people the light, it'll work, ya just gotta believe" an easy sell to the American people from anyone who wants to start a war anywhere. If also means that if you are arguing against the war being a smart idea, you are arguing against America being special, and therefore hate America and are bad. The only light of american exceptionalism I believe in is the W87
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Dec 13, 2014 20:14
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ISIS is what we have special operations dudes and drones for. Bomb the poo poo out of them from the air and give the Kurds a bunch of shiny new weapons and some hardasses with radios and laser targeters to call in airstrikes. We can throw money at this problem until they all die.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:17
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Zeroisanumber posted:ISIS is what we have special operations dudes and drones for. Bomb the poo poo out of them from the air and give the Kurds a bunch of shiny new weapons and some hardasses with radios and laser targeters to call in airstrikes. We can throw money at this problem until they all die. Exactly, just turn Iraq and Syria into like some Special Operations hunting preserve and not give a gently caress beyond that
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Dec 13, 2014 20:20
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but that's mean
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Dec 13, 2014 20:40
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Cole posted:Kill em all and gently caress your god in the rear end
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Dec 13, 2014 20:51
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Booblord Zagats posted:Oregon. yeah i've visited in portland maine. i thought it was a really nice town full of great views and nice people. actually maine in general is loving awesome and felt a lot like nz in terms of how spread out the population is combined with goddamned awesome nature everywhere
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Dec 13, 2014 21:19
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Zeroisanumber posted:ISIS is what we have special operations dudes and drones for. Bomb the poo poo out of them from the air and give the Kurds a bunch of shiny new weapons and some hardasses with radios and laser targeters to call in airstrikes. We can throw money at this problem until they all die. Or just leave it alone in it's entirety. This war will crystallize into a proxy sunni v shia fight puppeteered by the local powers of either side, and guest staring Kurds, Jews plus the occasional minority nobody's heard about prior. Whatever the outcome the fight will be ugly, and the outcome will be bad regardless. Better to have it a bad outcome not involving the west for once and letting the locals clean up their own mess. The CIA and other services can drone and assassinate all they want, I have little to no confidence they will actually achieve any benefit to the west for it. At worst we'll end up fighting whoever we trained, a decade or two from now.
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Dec 13, 2014 22:02
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If you want to read a good article that makes a mockery of the US Army's obsession with uniforms and appearance, click the link http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/breaking-starch-the-paradox-of-modern-military-uniforms
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Dec 13, 2014 22:11
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Courthouse posted:Or just leave it alone in it's entirety. This war will crystallize into a proxy sunni v shia fight puppeteered by the local powers of either side, and guest staring Kurds, Jews plus the occasional minority nobody's heard about prior. Whatever the outcome the fight will be ugly, and the outcome will be bad regardless. Better to have it a bad outcome not involving the west for once and letting the locals clean up their own mess. One positive development out of this is that we're working with Iran and moving towards detente. Fighting on the same side in a war helps. Neocons hate it. But if people are concerned about the U.S. getting involved in another major war in the Middle East, the priority should be on avoiding war with Iran. Equine Don posted:If you want to read a good article that makes a mockery of the US Army's obsession with uniforms and appearance, click the link
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Dec 13, 2014 22:20
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Vasudus posted:I am perfectly okay with "Kick their rear end and take their gas" if we could adequately kick their rear end, or successfully take their gas. We could, we just don't want to. Zeroisanumber posted:ISIS is what we have special operations dudes and drones for. Bomb the poo poo out of them from the air and give the Kurds a bunch of shiny new weapons and some hardasses with radios and laser targeters to call in airstrikes. We can throw money at this problem until they all die. Worked in Afghanistan the first time around. Edit: Article on uniforms is pretty good. Godholio fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 22:28
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There's some IR theory out there measuring just how dangerous various authoritarian regimes are. Under this theory, Iran and China are some of the least dangerous because they have authoritarian-bureaucratic regimes that have to respond to public pressure. Normally they just use economic growth to buy off dissent. But when times get bad, they are less likely to resort to military adventurism, because there's checks and balances within the bureaucracy. Iran has hardliners, but they're checked by the reformists. (This is why I think Iran prefers relying on the Quds Force for its overseas business.) China is the same way. There are some hardliners in the Party bureaucracy, but most of them just want to make money. They check themselves before they wreck themselves. Iran is run by clerics, but they're really religious businessmen. The regimes that are the most dangerous? Authoritarian regimes run by single strongmen and their small cohorts who also have to respond to public pressure, to stave off revolution. Saddam's Iraq. Hitler's Germany. Putin's Russia. They are more likely to use war as a means of mobilizing public support, as there's no one to tell them no. Military-led regimes are somewhere in the middle. Like the Argentinian colonels who invaded the Falklands after an economic crisis. So IF I WAS PRESIDENT my grandmaster plan would be detente with Iran, continue building relations with China, and massive military containment of Russia starting yesterday. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 22:33
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Omi-Polari posted:
Yep.
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Dec 13, 2014 23:20
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Omi-Polari posted:So IF I WAS PRESIDENT my grandmaster plan would be detente with Iran, continue building relations with China, and massive military containment of Russia starting yesterday. I agree with Iran, would counterweigh China with our traditional Pacific alliances + India, gently caress Pakistan in the rear end for yuks, and use economic pressure to kick Russia's legs out from under them.
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Dec 13, 2014 23:23
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Godholio posted:Worked in Afghanistan the first time around. I'm picturing Rambo 5 having some message about the movie being dedicated to the brave kurdish fighters opposing tyranny and it suddenly being really awkward 20 years later
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Dec 13, 2014 23:25
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Bolow posted:Exactly, just turn Iraq and Syria into like some Special Operations hunting preserve and not give a gently caress beyond that This is the purpose I have spent my life working towards
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Dec 13, 2014 23:33
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We overthrew Iran's government back when, they took our people hostage, our countries respective super religious people are both off the deep end with their faith. I don't understand why that poo poo can't just be water under the bridge and we work together for A Better Tomorrow (re Jihadi slaughter)
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Dec 13, 2014 23:38
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Bolow posted:Exactly, just turn Iraq and Syria into like some Special Operations hunting preserve and not give a gently caress beyond that It would make Robin Sage more interesting.
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Dec 13, 2014 23:45
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maffew buildings posted:We overthrew Iran's government back when, they took our people hostage, our countries respective super religious people are both off the deep end with their faith. I don't understand why that poo poo can't just be water under the bridge and we work together for A Better Tomorrow (re Jihadi slaughter) Because of the loving jews
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Dec 13, 2014 23:48
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I try and forget that country exists because it fucks up everything good and nice that could be
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Dec 13, 2014 23:54
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Victor Vermis posted:So? Victor Vermis, unlikely voice of reason. Yeah ISIS is evil and all, but I'm pretty sure the Turks/Iraqis/Saudis/rest of the Gulf Arabs/Iranians/Syrians/Jordanians/etc have much more of an incentive to deal with the problem than we do, but if Uncle Sucker rides to the rescue yet again (as we're currently doing) they'll all just continue freeloading like they have for the last 50+ years. lightpole posted:Pretty sure most of the African conflicts were/are much worse than ISIS. The subjugation and enslavement of women in countries such as Pakistan where the ISIS papers are the unwritten laws (because they are living in the stone age and can't write most likely) continues without much notice or rage from the civilized world. Yup. Read this book if you think ISIS is somehow beyond the pale in the brutality department. Since we're talking about rape and ISIS, I'll just toss this link out there. ISIS needs to step up their game if they want to come anywhere close to the poo poo that's been going on in the DRC for decades. The funny part is that nothing has really changed in the Congo, Rwanda and Uganda are still trying to start poo poo...it's just that since the people involved aren't Arab and the media can't spin a TERRORISM!!!!1111 angle no one really gives a poo poo about it. e: Omi-Polari posted:Friendship is a virtue, the Kurds are our friends, and ISIS hosed with the Kurds. You back up your friends, right? Nations have no permanent friends, only permanent interests. So no, you don't back up your friends, not when it doesn't support your interests (and waging war on ISIS really does nothing to further our interests.) \/ lol yeah also that. There's stuff I'm not going to get into details about but yeah, loving the Kurds has not been a solely Turk/Arab undertaking. \/ iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 00:09
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We use the Kurds. They are not our friends, except sporadically when it suits us. We used them against Iraq several times, including during OIF. Fast forward a couple of years later and we, the United States, literally watched Turkey bomb them in impressive fashion. When I say literally, I mean we could see the explosions and correlate them to the waves of strike aircraft. We moved to get a better view. Friends.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:05
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Godholio posted:We use the Kurds. They are not our friends, except sporadically when it suits us. We used them against Iraq several times, including during OIF. Fast forward a couple of years later and we, the United States, literally watched Turkey bomb them in impressive fashion. When I say literally, I mean we could see the explosions and correlate them to the waves of strike aircraft. We moved to get a better view. Realpolitik is a motherfucker, man.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:52
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The reason people like the Kurds is because they hate their own country and are desperate for a good guy in this.
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Dec 14, 2014 06:20
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Bolow posted:I'm picturing Rambo 5 having some message about the movie being dedicated to the brave kurdish fighters opposing tyranny and it suddenly being really awkward 20 years later throw some A-10s in there for kicks (and by kicks i mean erections) BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 07:36
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i just like the kurds because i want the world to be balkanized in the end
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Dec 14, 2014 15:33
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Omi-Polari posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLop82LjV48 It's like somebody who never even saw the movie turned it into a cartoon. Who am I kidding, that's exactly what happened.
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Dec 14, 2014 20:56
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WSJ Op-Ed on why the troops should never come home: Yes, America Should Be the World’s Policemanquote:In other words, if the world’s leading liberal-democratic nation doesn’t assume its role as world policeman, the world’s rogues will try to fill the breach, often in league with one another. It could be a world very much like the 1930s, a decade in which economic turmoil, war weariness, Western self-doubt, American self-involvement and the rise of ambitious dictatorships combined to produce catastrophe. When President Franklin Roosevelt asked Winston Churchill what World War II should be called, the British prime minister replied, “the unnecessary war”—because, Churchill said, “never was a war more easy to stop than that which has just wrecked what was left of the world from the previous struggle.” That is an error we should not repeat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3W0AnCAZsg&t=61s quote:To say that the U.S. needs to be the world’s policeman isn’t to say that we need to be its preacher, spreading the gospel of the American way. Preachers are in the business of changing hearts and saving souls. Cops merely walk the beat, reassuring the good, deterring the tempted, punishing the wicked.
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Dec 14, 2014 22:41
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So uh...who's gonna make those laws that the US is supposed to enforce?
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Dec 14, 2014 23:10
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Godholio posted:It's like somebody who never even saw the movie turned it into a cartoon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3oZP2tEbH4 that GRROROOOARRRRRRORRRRRRRR gives me a massive chubby Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 23:30
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Bad poo poo happening in Sydney, Australia right now. May or may not be linked to the Islamic State.
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Dec 15, 2014 00:42
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Well the flag is the shahada but not the IS flag. e: Guess I'll play Counter Strike tonight. AllDogsGoodDogs fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 00:49
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The Aussie CT Commando outfit must've collectively ruined their pants when they found out about this
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Dec 15, 2014 01:12
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Report is the hostage takers want to talk to Aussie PM Tony Abbott. Isn't he the guy who can't go 10 minutes without saying something horrifically bigoted? Maybe he's NOT the guy who should be talking to the dudes with guns to his citizens heads
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Dec 15, 2014 01:20
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maffew buildings posted:Report is the hostage takers want to talk to Aussie PM Tony Abbott. Isn't he the guy who can't go 10 minutes without saying something horrifically bigoted? Maybe he's NOT the guy who should be talking to the dudes with guns to his citizens heads
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Dec 15, 2014 01:38
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maffew buildings posted:Report is the hostage takers want to talk to Aussie PM Tony Abbott. Isn't he the guy who can't go 10 minutes without saying something horrifically bigoted? Maybe he's NOT the guy who should be talking to the dudes with guns to his citizens heads Maybe that's exactly what it needs. Like when that guy in Band of Brothers ran through the Germans and they just stared at him like "wtf???" And then he runs back. Its just totally unexpected. One of the best scenes of that series btw.
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Dec 15, 2014 01:48
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