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XenoCrab posted:Taking the chalice doesn't actually break the game though. The governor puts you in jail, but you still have all your stuff (except the chalice) and can just go back to the governor and do one of the missions to get the prison pass. No, he just summons Acolytes to kill you.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:21
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XenoCrab posted:Taking the chalice doesn't actually break the game though. The governor puts you in jail, but you still have all your stuff (except the chalice) and can just go back to the governor and do one of the missions to get the prison pass. From what I remember, talking to Harris after getting the Chalice locks down the entrance to the governor's mansion, making the game unwinnable if you haven't completed the mayor's quest. EDIT: poo poo, I might be mistaking it with simply setting off an alarm in town. My mistake. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 21:23
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You can talk to Harris any time. Just don't grab the chalice before getting the prison pass from Governor Mourel. Once you have that prison pass, you can steal the chalice, no problem, you can even kill Mourel, he doesn't matter to you anymore.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:35
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closeted republican posted:From what I remember, talking to Harris after getting the Chalice locks down the entrance to the governor's mansion, making the game unwinnable if you haven't completed the mayor's quest. Just checked in my (not this re-release) version of Strife, and what happens is you talk to the governor and he sends a whole ton of Acolytes on you. It's possible they changed it in this version, because that was a dick move with a capital D. And maybe an I, C, and K, too.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:36
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TerminusEst13 posted:Just checked in my (not this re-release) version of Strife, and what happens is you talk to the governor and he sends a whole ton of Acolytes on you. They didn't. You can get the chalice after doing the quests for the governor, but on a first playthrough you're not gonna know that, and it's pointless anyway since he doesn't give you anything. All you should do is accept his quest then kill him to access his secret stash.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:43
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closeted republican posted:One thing I never understood in Strife is why choosing to kill Macil or the Oracle first changes the ending you get. They're both evil, but somehow force-feeding Macil a Sigil blast first makes it impossible to shut down the Acolyte facility and damns humanity, while poking the Oracle with an electric bolt first saves everyone and lets you get a waifu. Macil sends you to destroy the factory that is making new acolytes. If you kill him first, there is still an evil cyborg army being made. The entity may or may not be making Macil act against his will, the Oracle is full on alien blue guy. You'd think Macil would send you after the loremaster before going nuts if he was evil the whole time. Babylon Astronaut fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 21:53
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Macil's case is a bit ambiguous. The way Blackbird tells you he has suddenly gone mad makes it look like it's quite an abrupt change for him. Like he was not possessed yet, but after the Front's success thanks to you a spectre took control of him. Then the Oracle tells you he's possessed too, but at the time Macil isn't fully corrupted yet. It's not really clear whether Macil is possessed from the start of the game or not. Anyway, the point is that if you trust him until Blackbird tells you he snapped, there's two important events that take place: the evil brainwashed cyborg factory is destroyed, and a cure to the alien virus that made cyborgification necessary is found, so humanity is saved; whereas if you attack Macil first you skip all that, and when you defeat the big bad alien humanity is still doomed anyway. So your choice is between "bad guys lose, good guys win" and "bad guys lose, good guys lose too".
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Dec 13, 2014 22:07
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XenoCrab posted:Taking the chalice doesn't actually break the game though. The governor puts you in jail, but you still have all your stuff (except the chalice) and can just go back to the governor and do one of the missions to get the prison pass. Confirming this is what happened for me in the re-release. Never played the original.
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Dec 13, 2014 22:35
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What surprises me most about Strife as I replay it is that the VA is actually pretty okay.
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Dec 13, 2014 23:15
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I'm not sure who Strife used, but there's actually quite a few games from the 90s that have good voice acting- hiring B-listers and professional voice actors was a good idea back then, and it's probably still a good idea now (compared to, you know, blowing half your budget for Patrick Stewart to talk for five minutes and die). Baldur's Gate 2, I remember, was just lousy with recognizable voice actors- I think like every bit role from Futurama showed up at some point.
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Dec 13, 2014 23:31
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for no particular reason  
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Dec 13, 2014 23:56
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Bad sewer levels in an FPS? How shocking! Serious question: is there any game, FPS or not, that had good sewer levels? I can think of a lot where they were complete poo poo, and a few where they were merely boring and blandly inoffensive, but none where they were actually good. A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Yeah, sticking hi-res textures on an enemy model that's double digits polys doesn't magically make it look good. The updated engine is a must though, and the environment textures aren't half-bad IIRC. The high-res texture pack (SHTUP, I think?) is just environment and item textures, actually, and IMO the game benefits a lot from them. Things look a lot clearer and signs and screens and whatnot are actually readable rather than being a blurry mess with a vague suggestion of text. There's similar upgrades for weapon models and sound quality. The enemy remodel+retexture, Rebirth, is a lot more divisive and I don't really like it myself. Shadow Hog posted:Confession: I've never played Jedi Knight or Jedi Outcast, but I have played Dark Forces and Jedi Academy (as well as beaten the former), and greatly enjoyed both. That's ok, Dark Forces and Jedi Academy are the best games of the series. (Jedi Knight is the worst by far.)
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Dec 14, 2014 00:28
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ToxicFrog posted:Serious question: is there any game, FPS or not, that had good sewer levels? I can think of a lot where they were complete poo poo, and a few where they were merely boring and blandly inoffensive, but none where they were actually good Does Metro count?
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Dec 14, 2014 00:35
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ToxicFrog posted:Serious question: is there any game, FPS or not, that had good sewer levels? I can think of a lot where they were complete poo poo, and a few where they were merely boring and blandly inoffensive, but none where they were actually good. Dark Souls.
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Dec 14, 2014 00:48
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Sonic Spinball and I think one of the TMNT games?
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Dec 14, 2014 01:01
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Genocyber posted:Dark Souls. Yeah, I was going to say this.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:05
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As GENDERWIERD GREEDO said, Metro is a valid option too.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:07
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I don't actually remember any sewers in Metro, just subway tunnels. I guess they weren't good or bad enough to leave an impression, for me. You're right, though, Dark Souls totally counts.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:15
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ToxicFrog posted:I don't actually remember any sewers in Metro, just subway tunnels. The only difference between the two is intent.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:40
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ToxicFrog posted:That's ok, Dark Forces and Jedi Academy are the best games of the series. (Jedi Knight is the worst by far.) This is the wrongest opinion. Jedi Academy is actually the worst, best is either Jedi Knight or MotS.
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Dec 14, 2014 01:46
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Heads up, craft your Strife badges on Steam. Everyone is so focused on the the Winter Auction that no one is selling the stuff yet. I just sold a common background for a dollar. Common backgrounds normally go for three cents.
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Dec 14, 2014 02:37
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ToxicFrog posted:Serious question: is there any game, FPS or not, that had good sewer levels? I can think of a lot where they were complete poo poo, and a few where they were merely boring and blandly inoffensive, but none where they were actually good. The sewer level in Space Marine is probably one of the best in the entire game and is surprisingly well laid out with a bunch of unique set pieces.
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Dec 14, 2014 02:48
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Heads up, craft your Strife badges on Steam. Everyone is so focused on the the Winter Auction that no one is selling the stuff yet. I just sold a common background for a dollar. Common backgrounds normally go for three cents. On the one hand, this is a decent idea. On the other hand, just sell the cards. e: Doom stuff. I hadn't played Bauhaus until today. It is realllllly good.
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Dec 14, 2014 03:00
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ToxicFrog posted:Serious question: is there any game, FPS or not, that had good sewer levels? I can think of a lot where they were complete poo poo, and a few where they were merely boring and blandly inoffensive, but none where they were actually good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH-lLbHbG-A HL2's sewer level was kinda cool.
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Dec 14, 2014 03:08
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Jehde posted:This is the wrongest opinion. Hmmm. If we're speaking on a hypothetical front, I don't think anyone could get any more wrong than "Doom is bad".
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Dec 14, 2014 03:23
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Jordan7hm posted:On the one hand, this is a decent idea. On the other hand, just sell the cards. I spent less on the cards to finish then I got from the background. If my emoticon sells it'll be significantly less. EDIT: Common emoticon also sold for a dollar. A Fancy 400 lbs fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 04:05
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Genocyber posted:Dark Souls. Demon's Souls (lower Latria/Valley of Defilement) and Dark Souls 2 (The Gutter) had good sewer levels too. The Gutter might be a bit too extreme for most players but it's a pretty unforgiving game in general, and the level is short enough not to be insurmountable. Here's hoping Blighttown 4.0 keeps the tradition up.
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Dec 14, 2014 06:15
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Demon's Souls (lower Latria/Valley of Defilement) and Dark Souls 2 (The Gutter) had good sewer levels too. The Gutter might be a bit too extreme for most players but it's a pretty unforgiving game in general, and the level is short enough not to be insurmountable. Eh, I wouldn't really call any of those sewer levels. Latria is more like a mix of labyrinth and tower, VoD is a swamp (which is similar I guess but usually not as awful as sewer levels) and the Gutter is a weird shantytown thing.
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Dec 14, 2014 06:26
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This was the right answer.  But yeah, Dark Souls has the best level design of any game I've played in decades, and that includes the sewers. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 09:14
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The Sewer bits in L4D/2 were pretty good I think.
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Dec 14, 2014 09:20
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Jehde posted:This is the wrongest opinion. I didn't actually play any of these games when they came out, apart from the Dark Forces demo; sometime around 2005 I played all four of them (I never had Mysteries of the Sith) in the course of about a year. And Jedi Knight held up really, really badly. The graphics are the first thing you notice. It's from that awkward early 3d age when we could throw enough polys that we didn't need sprites anymore, but not enough to make anything look good. The worst part is the lightsabers, which look great in Outcast and Academy and look like giant novelty icicles in Knight. The level design, I can't say anything bad about, but I also can't say anything good. It was bland and unmemorable, I guess? I have vague recollections of the first level and the final bossfight and that's it. Where the game really falls down, though, is force powers and saber combat. They're really janky and some are borderline unusable; Force Speed is a particularly bad offender, because unlike in Outcast and Academy it doesn't slow down the rest of the game, it speeds you up. So at high levels you activate speed and the game becomes a twitchy, uncontrollable mess. And saber combat lacks all of the refinements of Outcast and basically consists of desperately flailing at your target with the icicle and hoping you hit them more times than they hit you -- until Force Speed becomes common, at which point it consists of zipping around the room waving your icicle at them as the two of you go past each other at mach 4. This gets worse throughout the game and finally reaches its nadir at the final boss, distilling all that's bad about the Jedi mechanics into a single lengthy fight where you are forced to use them. Possibly I would have liked it more if I had played it when it was first released, or even if I had played the games in order, but it was hard to track down back then and I actually played it last, after Outcast, Academy, and Dark Forces. So all three other games were fresh in my memory when I played it and it didn't really come off favourably in comparison to any of them. In contrast, Dark Forces had some great levels and fun weapons, and while Jedi Academy was kind of bland -- I honestly couldn't tell you anything about the story or characters at this point -- it had the best force powers and the best saber combat of the series.
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Dec 14, 2014 14:59
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I always enjoyed the numbering system, and wished they'd have gone all the way. Star Wars Dark Forces Star Wars Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight Star Wars Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast (Dark Forces 3?) And then you have Star Wars Jedi Knight (3?): Jedi Academy (Dark Forces 4, but also Jedi Outcast 2). 
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Dec 14, 2014 15:07
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At first I thought you were highlighting the floating half-corpse in the sky, which is indeed one of my favourite "What the gently caress, Sandy" moments of Doom.
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Dec 14, 2014 15:57
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I don't understand what's going on with thos gifs. I'm on my phone, but still, I see two or three frames of somewhat similar action, but they don't seem like they're related. Is it some sort of before/after?
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Dec 14, 2014 18:00
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They remade the ordering screen screenshots as best as they could.
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Dec 14, 2014 18:02
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Elliotw2 posted:They remade the ordering screen screenshots as best as they could. And I think what they're trying to show is that one extra hill in the background image.
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Dec 14, 2014 18:06
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Kinda telling that your first complaint about an early FPS is the graphics. Instead of taking the time refuting your many objectively wrong opinions, I'm just gonna post this speedrun again that does a lot of it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LerYJmDLYqU Jehde fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Dec 14, 2014 |
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Dec 14, 2014 18:07
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Jehde posted:Kinda telling that your first complaint about an early FPS is the graphics. Instead of taking the time refuting your many objectively wrong opinions, I'm just gonna post this speedrun again that does a lot of it for me: It certainly proves him objectively right, that's for sure.
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Dec 14, 2014 18:15
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What's the deal with the Sith engine that powered Jedi Knight? I find it strange that it was developed in-house and not really used for anything other than JK and MotS (and a few other Lucasarts 3D games, apparently). It certainly seemed like a technically impressive game when it came out.
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Dec 14, 2014 18:26
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Lucasarts was big on making their own engines at the time, they didn't use someone else's engine until the mid PS2/Xbox era, when they just switched to Unreal like everyone else.
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Dec 14, 2014 18:30
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