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"Humans can't fight Servants" has the same weight as any other rule in the Nasuverse.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:39
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Completely contradicting and/or invalid to the main characters?
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Dec 15, 2014 21:04
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Variant_Eris posted:Completely contradicting and/or invalid to the main characters? I would describe it as "only there so somebody can break it" but yeah.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:05
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PunkBoy posted:
Is it all ufotable doing animation for this show? This gif looks remarkably like something Trigger would do.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:08
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Is that a bad thing?
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Dec 15, 2014 21:26
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No, it's loving awesome actually, I'm just curious.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:28
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Variant_Eris posted:Completely contradicting and/or invalid to the main characters? "Rules are made to be broken." That is literally Nasu's writing style: he won't introduce a rule unless it gets broken later.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:38
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you could even say he's a rule breaker
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Dec 15, 2014 21:40
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aren't i clever
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Dec 15, 2014 21:41
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That, and they're also extremely complicated rules; that's part of the charm.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:43
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Variant_Eris posted:Completely contradicting and/or invalid to the main characters? In any case, I only brought it up because I don't remember that happening at all in Fate/Zero, so it should be something new for that crowd.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:50
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Twiddy posted:In any case, I only brought it up because I don't remember that happening at all in Fate/Zero, so it should be something new for that crowd. If anything Fate/Zero was pretty much a whole show about rule breaking and how nothing was right, much less the Grail itself even though the premise to new viewers was, "Here's a bunch of people and heroic spirits duking it out battle royale style to get a wish." Straight forward enough and then it all spiraled down from there. 
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Dec 15, 2014 22:11
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You'd think Saber would have the reaction time or instinct to see what Kuzuki was trying to do before he even moved his arm, but w/e. This is a universe with mages and vampires and all that schiesse so I guess a superpowered shaolin monk isn't out of the question. It just didn't feel right in the context of the story.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:12
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Compendium posted:If anything Fate/Zero was pretty much a whole show about rule breaking and how nothing was right, much less the Grail itself even though the premise to new viewers was, "Here's a bunch of people and heroic spirits duking it out battle royale style to get a wish." Straight forward enough and then it all spiraled down from there. Kubla Khan posted:You'd think Saber would have the reaction time or instinct to see what Kuzuki was trying to do before he even moved his arm, but w/e. This is a universe with mages and vampires and all that schiesse so I guess a superpowered shaolin monk isn't out of the question. It just didn't feel right in the context of the story.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:16
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Kubla Khan posted:You'd think Saber would have the reaction time or instinct to see what Kuzuki was trying to do before he even moved his arm, but w/e. This is a universe with mages and vampires and all that schiesse so I guess a superpowered shaolin monk isn't out of the question. It just didn't feel right in the context of the story. It's a combination of surprise and Saber underestimating him, not a matter of her being overpowered or outclassed by him. I don't usually do the power level debate thing but people seem to be doing it themselves, so.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:27
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Endorph posted:Iunno why people keep acting like it's a matter of Kuzuki > Saber in some sort of powerlevel ranking. In a fair fight, with both of them knowing the other's abilities and knowing where and when the fight was going to happen, Saber would eat Kuzuki alive and spit him back out, no matter how many scrolls of Power Word: Fortitude Caster had laying around. I dunno but you'd think inhuman reflexes and instinct mean exactly what you'd think they mean. Anyhow, it felt lame to me, and it is (disclaimer!) a subjective opinion. Or is loving everything Fate a prerequisite to posting?
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Dec 15, 2014 22:52
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Magic
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Dec 15, 2014 23:01
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Endorph posted:It's a combination of surprise and Saber underestimating him, not a matter of her being overpowered or outclassed by him. I don't usually do the power level debate thing but people seem to be doing it themselves, so. I've read threads on about three different forums now in which people are arguing about whether a kung-fu teacher should be able to beat up a knight ghost as if it were a reasonable question with an obvious answer. What is it about this series that brings these tendencies out in people?
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Dec 15, 2014 23:16
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Kubla Khan posted:I dunno but you'd think inhuman reflexes and instinct mean exactly what you'd think they mean. Anyhow, it felt lame to me, and it is (disclaimer!) a subjective opinion. Or is loving everything Fate a prerequisite to posting? lol
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Dec 15, 2014 23:18
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Kubla Khan posted:I dunno but you'd think inhuman reflexes and instinct mean exactly what you'd think they mean. Anyhow, it felt lame to me, and it is (disclaimer!) a subjective opinion. Or is loving everything Fate a prerequisite to posting?
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Dec 15, 2014 23:19
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Kubla Khan posted:I dunno but you'd think inhuman reflexes and instinct mean exactly what you'd think they mean. Anyhow, it felt lame to me, and it is (disclaimer!) a subjective opinion. Or is loving everything Fate a prerequisite to posting? lol
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Dec 15, 2014 23:25
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Kubla Khan posted:I dunno but you'd think inhuman reflexes and instinct mean exactly what you'd think they mean. Anyhow, it felt lame to me, and it is (disclaimer!) a subjective opinion. Or is loving everything Fate a prerequisite to posting? I'll just say that maybe they're only "activated" if Saber herself treats you as an actual threat? This is a running theme throughout the franchise I think.
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Dec 15, 2014 23:28
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Given how martial arts assassins work in other anime/manga settings, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some "intent/presence concealment" aspect to Kuzuki's martial arts that messes with Saber's intuition.
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Dec 15, 2014 23:33
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I think it's a lot clearer in the VN, but most of Kuzuki's attacks are aimed at disabling Saber. She can sense them, which is why she's able to survive in the first place, but she's just physically unable to react to them. As for why she didn't dodge them early on? Well, she didn't expect Diarmuid to do basically the same thing in Fate/Zero. Even Saber makes mistakes. 
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Dec 15, 2014 23:53
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Kubla Khan posted:I dunno but you'd think inhuman reflexes and instinct mean exactly what you'd think they mean. Anyhow, it felt lame to me, and it is (disclaimer!) a subjective opinion. Or is loving everything Fate a prerequisite to posting? Being an incredible bitch seems to be one, as you've proven.
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Dec 16, 2014 00:18
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Someone please stitch together a gif or webm of Kuzuki sending all 3 of them flying on Fist International.
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Dec 16, 2014 00:21
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'll just say that maybe they're only "activated" if Saber herself treats you as an actual threat? This is a running theme throughout the franchise I think. Her battle instincts were working, that's how she dodged most of the blows from Kuzuki, for a given value of dodged, turning them into damaging rather than disabling hits. Only problem is that his martial arts style is able to exploit near misses to redirect them, hitting at a different angle. Kuzuki even mentions that Saber's instincts saved her from his really damaging attacks before he brought his fist down on her shoulder. She also underestimated him by a large amount, which didn't help.
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Dec 16, 2014 00:38
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Beef Waifu posted:Being an incredible bitch seems to be one, as you've proven. Having an opinion = 'being a bitch'. You have issues. Though I'd rather you dealt with them yourself, I'm afraid.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:06
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jellycat posted:I think it's a lot clearer in the VN, but most of Kuzuki's attacks are aimed at disabling Saber. She can sense them, which is why she's able to survive in the first place, but she's just physically unable to react to them. As for why she didn't dodge them early on? Well, she didn't expect Diarmuid to do basically the same thing in Fate/Zero. Even Saber makes mistakes. True, tho I guess my point was that it didn't feel like it fit within the story and the overarching idea of servants being unbeatable by humans, not that it didn't make sense logically.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:08
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Kubla Khan posted:Having an opinion = 'being a bitch'. You have issues. Though I'd rather you dealt with them yourself, I'm afraid. lol
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Dec 16, 2014 01:08
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Kubla Khan posted:Having an opinion = 'being a bitch'. You have issues. Though I'd rather you dealt with them yourself, I'm afraid. lol
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Dec 16, 2014 01:12
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Kubla Khan posted:True, tho I guess my point was that it didn't feel like it fit within the story and the overarching idea of servants being unbeatable by humans, not that it didn't make sense logically.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:16
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Kubla Khan posted:Having an opinion = 'being a bitch'. You have issues. Though I'd rather you dealt with them yourself, I'm afraid. lmao you're such a ビッチ
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Dec 16, 2014 01:18
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I've always felt it's bizarre that Saber's instincts and luck are sufficient for her to survive Gae Bolg but she still gets knocked around by Kuzuki. The whole 'she underestimated him' thing doesn't really work given her instinct is more like precognition than anything else; I've never seen anything that suggests she has any conscious influence over it. With all that said, the fight ends with Saber regenerating through the damage and forcing Caster and Kuzuki to bail out with her full frontal charge, so I think the notion that humans can't beat servants mostly holds.
Lestaki fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 01:22
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This thread is going to be saturated in power level talk bullcrap by the time second cour rolls around, I know it.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:27
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Compendium posted:This thread is going to be saturated in power level talk bullcrap by the time second cour rolls around, I know it. Please just lock the thread some days after the last episode of this half airs.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:29
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Lestaki posted:I've always felt it's bizarre that Saber's instincts and luck are sufficient for her to survive Gae Bolg but she still gets knocked around by Kuzuki. The whole 'she underestimated him' thing doesn't really work given her instinct is more like precognition than anything else; I've never seen anything that suggests she has any conscious influence over it. With all that said, the fight ends with Saber regenerating through the damage and forcing Caster and Kuzuki to bail out with her full frontal charge, so I think the notion that humans can't beat servants mostly holds. Gae Bolg was worse but it was one thing, whereas Kuzuki just kept relentless attacking, so it seems fine to me.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:40
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Genocyber posted:Gae Bolg was worse but it was one thing, whereas Kuzuki just kept relentless attacking, so it seems fine to me. Lancer spent like five minutes hyping up how Gae Bolg was going to kill her. Of course Saber saw it coming. "You want to have a draw? Because I can you kill you you know. With this huge glowing spear. Man is it glowing hard. It will take your head straight off. Since you're not willing to have a draw. Just saying."
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Dec 16, 2014 01:45
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It doesn't matter if you see Gae Bolg coming, if you're in range it just kills you. I guess being really lucky works better on Irish death curses than on weird martial arts.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:56
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Dzhay posted:I've read threads on about three different forums now in which people are arguing about whether a kung-fu teacher should be able to beat up a knight ghost as if it were a reasonable question with an obvious answer. What is it about this series that brings these tendencies out in people? Lestaki posted:I've always felt it's bizarre that Saber's instincts and luck are sufficient for her to survive Gae Bolg but she still gets knocked around by Kuzuki. The whole 'she underestimated him' thing doesn't really work given her instinct is more like precognition than anything else; I've never seen anything that suggests she has any conscious influence over it. With all that said, the fight ends with Saber regenerating through the damage and forcing Caster and Kuzuki to bail out with her full frontal charge, so I think the notion that humans can't beat servants mostly holds. GhostStalker posted:Her battle instincts were working, that's how she dodged most of the blows from Kuzuki, for a given value of dodged, turning them into damaging rather than disabling hits. Only problem is that his martial arts style is able to exploit near misses to redirect them, hitting at a different angle. Kuzuki even mentions that Saber's instincts saved her from his really damaging attacks before he brought his fist down on her shoulder. She also underestimated him by a large amount, which didn't help. jellycat posted:I think it's a lot clearer in the VN, but most of Kuzuki's attacks are aimed at disabling Saber. She can sense them, which is why she's able to survive in the first place, but she's just physically unable to react to them. As for why she didn't dodge them early on? Well, she didn't expect Diarmuid to do basically the same thing in Fate/Zero. Even Saber makes mistakes. Raenir Salazar posted:I'll just say that maybe they're only "activated" if Saber herself treats you as an actual threat? This is a running theme throughout the franchise I think.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:57
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