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T4 is still one of the most boring movies I've ever seen in theaters. T3 was a great deal more entertaining at least, but T4 was so loving bland. I barely remember anything besides being so pissed that they didn't use the incredible "face transplant" ending they were kicking around but didn't have the balls to do.
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Dec 15, 2014 18:00
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I don't really see what's so great about that ending other than it being a big twist. It certainly wouldn't have been satisfying to learn that the heroic John Connor was secretly some boring rear end in a top hat instead.
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Dec 15, 2014 18:14
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Just practically speaking, at the time I thought it was very strange that they had cast Bale as John Connor because I was thinking at this point in his career there's no way Bale will sign on to do a whole trilogy of these movies. So when the rumors started coming out that he would actually die and be replaced at the end it made perfect sense to me. I wonder what their plan would have been if the movie was a big hit? Just pay Bale 20+ million per for two more? The casting of Bale was just plain weird for several reasons.
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Dec 15, 2014 18:48
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Lurdiak posted:I don't really see what's so great about that ending other than it being a big twist. It certainly wouldn't have been satisfying to learn that the heroic John Connor was secretly some boring rear end in a top hat instead. The face transplant ending is loving idiotic and the only reason people whine about it not happening is because they misidentify why Salvation was an unenjoyable movie.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:13
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I don't think the face transplant idea would have worked as they implemented it, but I think it was onto a good idea.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:14
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I was confused as to why they were still using conventional firearms in Salvation. Pretty much everything the movies teach us about terminators is that contemporary firearms do nothing to them. It would have been nice to see some lasergun designs or really anything that looked like James Cameron's 40K-style future war.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:18
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Well the resistance can just land in the middle of the desert and setup an impromptu field hospital with trained professionals to conduct a heart replacement, the sky's the limit I guess; it's not like they're hurting for A-10s and Choppers either. It's a shame a lot of it was shot during the day, the movie misses out on the iconic guerrilla night battles with purple death beams lighting up the sky.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:26
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the biggest crime of T4 is having Terry Crews and not doing jack poo poo with him. He would have been a better Marcus.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:28
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I was confused as to why they were still using conventional firearms in Salvation. Pretty much everything the movies teach us about terminators is that contemporary firearms do nothing to them. It would have been nice to see some lasergun designs or really anything that looked like James Cameron's 40K-style future war. I think you're right, but you're indirectly speaking to why, in my opinion, the Future War isn't really filmable outside of carefully controlled blurbs or dream sequences. It's hard to wrap your head around "a computer bombs humanity to the stone age, but we somehow get laser guns and fight back". It makes sense that we'd still be using conventional weaponry to fight back, and the story demands they work well enough to nearly destroy Skynet to set off the original movie, but it feels wrong. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Dec 15, 2014 |
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Dec 15, 2014 19:34
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Basebf555 posted:Salvation was very different, so I had high hopes for it. The one scene that was already posted about with the beanie wearing Terminator is on the same level as any of the other movies, so I know they understood how to make the machines scary. Maybe I need to watch it again to really understand where I felt it went off the rails. I think it was really just expectations. When the film was coming out, fans were freaking out over everything. Like, McG had to do a press release explaining his name, because fans were mad about the director's name. That's the toxic atmosphere where the leaked ending had to be instantly changed to avoid fan meltdown. Lots of people were expecting The Ultimate Experience In Grueling Terror - just two hours of machines brutally slaughtering innocent people - when the actual film is clearly aping Children Of Men. I don't think anyone anticipated an evenly-matched conflict between a still-organized humanity and a Skynet that hasn't built up its armies yet - and they certainly didn't anticipate a flawed resistance that still hasn't let go of the old ways, still treating Skynet as an external, alien threat instead of as a dark mirror of themselves. This expectation of consequence-free fantasy violence against an inhuman, inferior (and yet all-powerful) enemy - of course - goes against not only everything the original films stood for, but the basic word in the title.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:03
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This parody trailer for Terminator Genisys had me cracking up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe2Agl3bJAc
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Dec 15, 2014 21:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Lots of people were expecting The Ultimate Experience In Grueling Terror - just two hours of machines brutally slaughtering innocent people - when the actual film is clearly aping Children Of Men. I don't think anyone anticipated an evenly-matched conflict between a still-organized humanity and a Skynet that hasn't built up its armies yet - and they certainly didn't anticipate a flawed resistance that still hasn't let go of the old ways, still treating Skynet as an external, alien threat instead of as a dark mirror of themselves. I think there was a middle-ground there that could have been achieved. The themes your talking about could have still been at the core of the film, but I think there needed to be more "grueling terror" than there was. There was plenty of time to establish the problems with the resistance as an organization and still have terrifying scenes of Terminator's stalking innocent people. Its a big enough world for both in my opinion.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:16
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il serpente cosmico posted:This parody trailer for Terminator Genisys had me cracking up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe2Agl3bJAc That was actually really, really good. I would watch that movie.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:25
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mr. stefan posted:The face transplant ending is loving idiotic and the only reason people whine about it not happening is because they misidentify why Salvation was an unenjoyable movie. Also everyone thought that twist was EXTREMELY stupid when it leaked and the dumbest thing ever. There was a massive fan backlash against it to the point where it was changed. It's now that the internet got what it wanted and the movie was a steaming pile anyway people cling to whatever reason they can that the movie ***COULD HAVE BEEN AMAZING IF*** to justify themselves being so hyped for crap.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:50
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Neo Rasa posted:Also everyone thought that twist was EXTREMELY stupid when it leaked and the dumbest thing ever. There was a massive fan backlash against it to the point where it was changed. It's now that the internet got what it wanted and the movie was a steaming pile anyway people cling to whatever reason they can that the movie ***COULD HAVE BEEN AMAZING IF*** to justify themselves being so hyped for crap. Well it doesn't help that the movie was written with that aspect of the plot in mind. The ending of the film makes no sense without it, and it was obvious that was the way the film 'should' have ended even after one viewing with no foreknowledge of the original script or the problems thereof.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:10
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Watching the Sarah Connor Chronicles again shows me what I wanted out of Terminator Salvation. The stories of the future there were much more flushed out than T1 and T2, which is where the franchise needed to go next. It needed to be the story of the Reese bros and how they eventually worked their way up with John Connor to beat Skynet. It should end with the three guys having skynet by the balls, sending Kyle back in time, and immediately zapping the universe back to a place where skynet never existed, like standing in a green grass field or whatever. I think a major problem with the franchise at this point is that nobody's willing to end it. All we get are episodes instead of a story arc. Also I watched Guardians of the Galaxy this weekend and drat it's amazing what having actually likeable characters can do for a film/story. Another huge problem with T3 and T4.
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Dec 15, 2014 22:21
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I now think this was filmed by having the guy wave it around making 'pew pew' flight noises. 
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Dec 16, 2014 00:17
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Basebf555 posted:I think there was a middle-ground there that could have been achieved. The themes your talking about could have still been at the core of the film, but I think there needed to be more "grueling terror" than there was. There was plenty of time to establish the problems with the resistance as an organization and still have terrifying scenes of Terminator's stalking innocent people. Its a big enough world for both in my opinion. None of the Terminator movies are really terrifying, though.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:04
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Smellslike posted:The Terminator(s) were back, and were terrifying once again.
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Dec 16, 2014 01:31
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davidspackage posted:Watched the first Terminator again for the first time in years, and it somehow escaped me that Arnold spends most of the movie with his eyebrows singed off. Weird. I remember watching the movie years ago and knowing something was wrong with his face but it took forever or probably a repeat viewing to notice that was the reason.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:44
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:None of the Terminator movies are really terrifying, though. Maybe it depends on when you initially watched them. I caught the nuclear explosion scene on a friends TV when I was...not sure, 8 or 9? And that scarred me for a while. Lots of nightmares about that. And the T-1000. Without that scene where it starts glitching it seemed like it was truly an unstoppable monster. I don't have any steel mills nearby and what if he's in my closet? 
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Dec 16, 2014 02:46
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:None of the Terminator movies are really terrifying, though. Never change you glorious troglodyte.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:47
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I don't know why people would be scared of a movie that is about the personification of inevitability that is designed to look like like the Grim Reaper deciding that someone's time is up and going after them.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:53
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I'm 30 years old and Terminator scared the crap out of me when I watched it two nights ago. I hadn't seen it for about 15 years.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:03
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There is horror in the films, but the tone is mostly lurid comic-book action. It's something that's always been there, simply taken too far in T3 (where they brought on the cinematographer from Spiderman, and so-on). Terminator Salvation nails that sort of vibe - only really 'missing' the films' ultraviolence to focus on imagery of systemic dehumanization. It's Spielberg's War Of The Worlds, or Children Of Men. Marcus gets more hosed up than just about any other Terminator character, but is programmed not to feel too much pain - and that numbness as he becomes increasingly CGI is kind-of the point.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:but the tone is mostly lurid comic-book action. N-no.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:25
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MisterBibs posted:I think you're right, but you're indirectly speaking to why, in my opinion, the Future War isn't really filmable outside of carefully controlled blurbs or dream sequences. I don't know, I've always figured the 40-watt plasma rifles and other future technology where essentially reverse-engineered Skynet technology retrofitted to existing designs. Considering how Reese is talking about how the majority of survivors were in concentration camps, waiting to be processed, they have lost so much that even conventional weaponry not only didn't matter against the machines, but probably wasn't available for the bulk of the resistance. Oh, BTW, looking into the IMFDB page on The Terminator came up with concept art drawn by Cameron of the Terminator, that was eventually used in the animated teaser trailer...  But, wait, what the gently caress is this?!  I never realized the Lance Henriksen Terminator idea actually survived this far into production.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:48
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Variety magazine, 1983: "The Terminator is a blazing, cinematic comic book, full of virtuoso moviemaking, terrific momentum..." Terminator has always been more of a thrilling action movie than a horror film.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:58
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SMG, what do you think of the charlie's angels films, which Salvation's director also made?
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Dec 16, 2014 04:13
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I've always thought the first one was most succinctly labeled as a thriller - there's a lot of dread and tension but only some outright horror (when Ginger gets executed, for instance). Calling it simply "action" seems like going too far in the other direction.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:15
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david_a posted:I've always thought the first one was most succinctly labeled as a thriller - there's a lot of dread and tension but only some outright horror (when Ginger gets executed, for instance). Calling it simply "action" seems like going too far in the other direction. Yeah, I have difficulty labeling the first terminator film as an action flick because all the action scenes show the terminator with a huge advantage. Reese and Sarah never have a stand up fight with the Terminator, its always running away and taking shots in an attempt to discourage it. If you replace the Terminator with Jason from Friday the 13th the overall pace of the film could still be similar, albeit with more knifings, and those films aren't what I'd call action. T2, T3 and Salvation? Action flicks through and through.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:25
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davidspackage posted:Watched the first Terminator again for the first time in years, and it somehow escaped me that Arnold spends most of the movie with his eyebrows singed off. Weird. Holy poo poo, that's why he looks so strange in some scenes. It's really noticeable when he's talking on the police radio while chasing Sarah and Reese. It gives his face this really fake look, like they'd decided they were going to get some extra mileage out of the head puppet that was used in the eye repair scene.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:26
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Does anybody know if he actually shaved his eyebrows or if it's just makeup? After all, De Niro's mohawk in Taxi Driver is fake so it seems possible. I don't know how long eyebrows take to regrow, but I would think that might be a bit awkward to walk around with everyday.
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Dec 16, 2014 05:21
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When in the movie did he lose them?
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Dec 16, 2014 06:44
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I'm pretty sure his lack of eyebrows is accomplished with makeup. IIRC you can sort of notice it looking off at a couple of points, I want to say when he's in the parking lot looking back and forth from within the police car and when he's approaching the other Sarah Connor.Young Freud posted:I never realized the Lance Henriksen Terminator idea actually survived this far into production. I haven't watched the making of stuff in a while (MGM's old Terminator DVD is awesome, they put out that and an incredible Mad Max DVD around the same time) but I believe a lot of the scenes involving Arnold by himself and Linda Hamilton by herself were shot a little later on. So I'd think it's definitely possible that they were already doing some basic work on say the future war scenes or whatever before finally deciding. One of the interviews with Arnold kind of implied that he was actually already signing on to play Kyle Reese but then during the process of going over the script more/etc. wanted to be the Terminator itself. Henricksen also was walking around pretending to stalk people/etc. to get into character. With all that in mind I think they were straight up making the movie before the switch happened.
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Dec 16, 2014 06:57
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Terminator Salvation is definitely the best Terminator movie. Rewatching it thanks to this thread, and who are these guys in the window?  Yep, the rich traitors who conspired with Skynet are still in the film.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Terminator Salvation is definitely the best Terminator movie. Yes, because that makes sense.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:12
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Can I get the reason Terry Crews is still in the film as a corpse? Meaning the SMG reason, not the actual one.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:18
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Wolfsheim posted:Can I get the reason Terry Crews is still in the film as a corpse? The rich traitors who conspired with Skynet are no longer in the film. President Camacho, you will be missed. Terminator Salvation: The End Begins is what happens when the social moors of Idiocracy go too far.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:25
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I also wonder what other editing mistakes he might want to extrapolate on. The guy wearing jeans in the background of Gladiator maybe?
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Dec 16, 2014 07:29
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