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xtothez posted:I spent about £200 on recasts in the first few months of this year. Most of the models I bought were just to try out the Rising Leviathan formations (such as getting 3 more Lictors to field the Deathleaper one), and most I haven't even bothered to paint yet. This. Way to stick it to the man by playing the same game with the same models. I hate pop music! That's why I torrent Britney Spears! gently caress microsoft, I'll install Windows illegally. Recasts were your only option? You couldn't proxy ANYTHING ELSE and have the same effect? You don't think GW would go "hey, everyone loves our lictors so much they are willing to go to recasts to get them" and put a check on some column that made your moralizing in any way invalid? Either way I don't care, but if we are being blunt...  EDIT: Have a picture to make up for horrible post. 
LordAba fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 02:00
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Warhammer goons, Do you want to play Chaos Space Marines or perhaps already do and want to expand your collection hugely? Of course you do, spiky marines are the best marines! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3688261 Have several thousand points of them for sale in the US including a good deal of Forgeworld and asking under 50% retail. 
Exinos fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 02:09
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GeeDub got at least three hundred out of me with the last Tyranid release and I'm seriously considering a Dimachearon right now too. Good rules, good models, good sales numbers. Who knew?
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Dec 16, 2014 02:15
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All this talk of recasters actually got me thinking about starting a legit FW 30k Emperor's Children force again. Anyone know about how long it takes to get Forgeworld stuff delivered to the US? Specifically Michigan? Edit: I mean typically. I'm not going to start until after the holidays.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:23
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I usually get mine within a week, but I usually go with express shipping and I live on the east coast.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:47
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:All this talk of recasters actually got me thinking about starting a legit FW 30k Emperor's Children force again. Anyone know about how long it takes to get Forgeworld stuff delivered to the US? Specifically Michigan? 5-6 business days for me on the west coast.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:49
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I own several of the larger recasting operations. It started innocently enough, really. I wanted spare bits that nobody had and it would have taken a small fortune to buy all of it in plastic. I made my own casts at first, learning the trade so to speak, and only sold the spare pieces on ebay to break even. The money was good and people kept sending me messages asking for other models. I resisted for a while, but I eventually met a few like-minded people from Europe and Asia who convinced me to partner up and expand. We grew our operation to handle a slightly larger scale production and distribution. Its grown a lot since then. Today we have about 40 employees and facilities in several countries. Most people don't know this, but the majority of recasting sites are operated by Europeans- French, Russian, German, and Brits. Quality for many of those is low because they re-package their product from one of several cheap sources in China. We're different- sourcing our resin from a private company from Canada and making our own molds and casts. The material is higher quality than Forgeworld and our shops are supervised places where quality control is high- all seams, bubbles, and imperfections are removed before casts are made in the new material. Defects are thrown away or sold at a serious discount. There is also no need to wash models since there is no release agent, the material is much less prone to snapping, and all of our casts are 100% biodegradable. As a company we believe in sustainable growth. Our prices are higher, but the folks working for us are paid at least three times what they would get in an American call center across the street. As we've expanded into the pre-painted/commission painted market our offices now have a fair number of artists. Many of them are students looking to make money to attend university. We believe strongly in community involvement, and as an employee owned company 60% of our profits go directly back into the community. This includes sponsorship to local technical schools, educational grants, city beautification, and a 2:1 matched 401 plan. Recently we've even partnered with American companies, such as Blue Table Painting, who use our junior artists for their level 6-7 commissions.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:50
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source...your quotes?
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Dec 16, 2014 02:51
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Ahaha, there are eleven Elites choices in the Blood Angels codex. Eleven. In one slot. What the gently caress a Christ where they thinking when they moved three Troops into Elites? No wonder they had to make a first company FoC.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:14
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Ahaha, there are eleven Elites choices in the Blood Angels codex. Eleven. In one slot. And even that FoC only lets you take 5 different Elites choices multiple times.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:30
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Just to run with this theme of it being a bad book, my copy has pages 96 and 97 (Dante & Seth) glued together.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:35
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Just to run with this theme of it being a bad book, my copy has pages 96 and 97 (Dante & Seth) glued together. One of the relics doesn't have a point cost. It's not even listed in the Wargear list.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:40
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BULBASAUR posted:Recently we've even partnered with American companies, such as Blue Table Painting, who use our junior artists for their level 6-7 commissions. This part made me laugh the most.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:41
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Slimnoid posted:One of the relics doesn't have a point cost. It's not even listed in the Wargear list. Gonkius' Staff? It's because it's a once-only free replacement for a Librarian's Force weapon. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 03:45
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despite knowing it is apparently not printed wrong, i am now just forced to laugh at the fact a noble blood angel librarian was named 'gonkius'.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:46
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Sorry to say that I came up with that name because I can't remember the actual one. 
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Dec 16, 2014 03:48
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Sorry to say that I came up with that name because I can't remember the actual one. and just like that, i do not care about blood angels anymore.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:50
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Gonkius' Staff? It's because it's a once-only free replacement for a Librarian's Force weapon. Oh, well, no wonder I didn't see it on the wargear list. It does cost 10pts to replace it though, which isn't very good since it's just a force staff with 'reroll 1s on psychic test, take a no-save wound if another 1 is rolled.'
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Dec 16, 2014 03:54
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Just to throw my opinion in for recastchat, I've bought stuff on eBay which ended up being recast stuff on closer inspection. Quality was loving good, not much I can do about my heinous theft of GW profits by proxy. The problem GW is gonna face is that they can stick their heads in the sand and sing loudly thinking the recasters are poor quality etc, but that's just not true. One glance at reddit shows the recaster quality is high, they have customer service, sales, proper catalogues with pre orders and all kinds of stuff. These guys have realised with a bit of effort they can take in thousands a week. For someone who just votes with their wallet and not with their morals, it makes 0 financial sense to go to FW when you can get 3-4x as much and still get casting defects etc replaced. As far as I can see the only anti caster argument is a moral one more than anything - and I'm not discounting that argument, but GW are still absolutely expert at making their fans legit hate them.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:05
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It makes zero financial sense to participate in this hobby at all. I am an adult man who budgets monthly for toys. Don't use lovely 'well it doesn't make any sense to pay FW prices when I can get more for cheaper!' logic to justify the fact you just want to have your cake and eat it, too. There is no need to 'save' money in this hobby. You do not have some overbearing need to get 3 Castellax for the price of 1. You're not some working class parent saving money to feed two kids for the price of one. You're a person who wants more toys for less money. There's no justification.
A 50S RAYGUN fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 04:24
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All this talk is convincing me to buy an Avatar from FW in the new year. Ice themed here we come!
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Dec 16, 2014 04:28
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People have been arguing for and against piracy for long drat time. This is literally the same debate. You clowns should agree to disagree or go start a thread about it somewhere else. I'm sure I'm not the only person who cares 0% about where you buy your resin/plastic space barbies as long as you're a cool dude, drink beer, and smack talk like a proper warham.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:37
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I'll admit I bought a few recasts this past year, but I'm not gonna do it again. Just from a quality standpoint it felt as though it was a "You get what you pay for" situation, and if I'm gonna be spending a lot of money regardless I'd prefer to spend the extra cash giving myself some quality-control insurance and instructions. Also, you know, supporting the company that actually makes the rules. ...Then again, they did nerf the Macharius in the last Imperial Armor: Apocalypse. You better at least update the Destroyer Tank Hunter* rules to be not-poo poo, FW!  In my gaming group, though, recasts have been getting increasingly popular, since we're all college students who play 40K and as such pretty much everyone cuts costs as much as they can by buying used, getting stuff on sale, and now, recasts. It's not a tremendous amount of stuff or a huge amount of people doing it, but the attitude amongst my friends has been "I want to field this unit, I have nothing that could reasonably proxy it, buying from Forge World direct is at least twice as expensive, so gently caress it." I'd say that overall it's partially a combination of people wanting to get things cheaper and, more importantly, a bit of vindictiveness towards GW. I think that for many people there's a feeling that "The recasts wouldn't be so much cheaper if GW wasn't set on squeezing every ounce of blood from this stone", so not only do people not feel as bad about it, there's a feeling of actively sticking it to GW with every purchase. Unfortunately, by this point I don't think there's any way for GW to really rectify the situation. The recasters are going to do what they do regardless, and the economic path that GW has taken has likely prevented them from doing anything to try and cover the gulf in cost. It does lead me to an interesting question, though-are there any other games where recasts are a serious problem for the manufacturers? It'd be interesting to know if it's an industry-wide problem, or if GW brought it upon themselves to an extent with their larger playerbase and higher model costs. *I bought a legit Destroyer off ebay at the same time that I got the other stuff from FW, since not even the Chinese apparently wanted anything to do with it  Edit: REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:It makes zero financial sense to participate in this hobby at all. I am an adult man who budgets monthly for toys. Don't use lovely 'well it doesn't make any sense to pay FW prices when I can get more for cheaper!' logic to justify the fact you just want to have your cake and eat it, too. There is no need to 'save' money in this hobby. You do not have some overbearing need to get 3 Castellax for the price of 1. You're not some working class parent saving money to feed two kids for the price of one. You're a person who wants more toys for less money. There's no justification. So you should never buy used, never look for deals on ebay or from online retailers, never do anything but directly shovel money into GW's furnace, got it. I mean, I'm obviously being factious, but this is literally what you're saying right now. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 04:44
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Lord Twisted posted:As far as I can see the only anti caster argument is a moral one more than anything - and I'm not discounting that argument, but GW are still absolutely expert at making their fans legit hate them. There's also the rather compelling common sense argument that GW is not the film or music industry. Piracy can actually sink them and without GW there are no more GW sculpts or games. I do agree that if if GW actually made an honest effort to court their customer base and rebuild some sense of brand loyalty, then it might help dissuade people.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:50
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Acebuckeye13 posted:It does lead me to an interesting question, though-are there any other games where recasts are a serious problem for the manufacturers? It'd be interesting to know if it's an industry-wide problem, or if GW brought it upon themselves to an extent with their larger playerbase and higher model costs. Not really, no. I've seen some Rackham recasts here and there, primarily old/rare stuff, but the vast, vast, vast majority is just GW stuff. Probably because they're a world-wide gaming company in a niche market, and their biggest competitor in that regard is Privateer Press which insofar as I know, hasn't gotten as much penetration outside of the United States and Canada yet (could be wrong on this though).
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Dec 16, 2014 04:52
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You would be surprised at the size of the South-African fanbase for Warmachine.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:54
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:There's also the rather compelling common sense argument that GW is not the film or music industry. Piracy can actually sink them and without GW there are no more GW sculpts or games. I do agree that if if GW actually made an honest effort to court their customer base and rebuild some sense of brand loyalty, then it might help dissuade people. What would that look like, exactly? I don't think there's anything GW could do to win back the bitter adult fan demographic. I also doubt anything they do other than lowering prices would actually stop people buying from recasters. We're talking about a group that, when they heard GW had generous customer service, ended up scamming for free kits so bad they had to change their policies.
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Dec 16, 2014 04:55
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Ultragonk posted:Has anyone had a go using the new 3 Hellbrute formation? I like the sound of it, is it useful? It's pretty alright. Being able to DS in with Multimeltas feels really good, at least until you realize that Loyalists have been doing it for years. All three of the Helbrute formations fall somewhere in the "decent but not amazing" range of things. Tequila Ranger posted:The amount of nerds champing at the bit for a Necron nerf (not so much here as on Dakka) is amusing... And odd since I wouldn't put Necrons in the top 5 of any current "power rankings." Pretty sure Eldar, Tau, Imperial Potpourri, Dark Eldar, and Post-Apology-Nids would be above 'em on most players threat boards. I don't really thing that is correct at all. The rankings, based on success at big tournaments, are something like: Eldar, SM, Knights, Tau, Necrons Daemons, CSM, IG, Orks, SW, Nids DE, DA, BA, Inq, SoB, GK Eldar and SM arguably are a bit better than the other three in the top tier, but I don't think that's 100% clear (especially because most high-level armies mix two of the top-tier codices together.) Tau and Knights certainly have the strongest formations and Eldar the strongest single unit, but each of the books have a variety of other factors going into how good they actually are. Mange Mite posted:What would that look like, exactly? I don't think there's anything GW could do to win back the bitter adult fan demographic. I also doubt anything they do other than lowering prices would actually stop people buying from recasters. We're talking about a group that, when they heard GW had generous customer service, ended up scamming for free kits so bad they had to change their policies. I think there's actually a lot of stuff they could do. I, and a lot of other people, are pretty unhappy with the way they've been writing books recently and with the balance issues in general. For all GW likes to pretend "we just sell models the rules don't matter," they are a game company and Warhammer 40K is a game as much as it is a hobby- good rules and good models with both make people like them more, and bad rules and bad models the opposite. Intentionally ignoring one entire side of the hobby is not a great way to go about being successful, especially when it wouldn't be all that difficult or expensive to fix many of the problems. Their communication with players in general and most especially the way they use the internet are also big sources of issues. GW's communication is amazingly poor, and that hurts their sales in a very real and direct manner- there is a reason that other companies use things like previews, marketing, etc, to build interest in their products. Moreover, their unwillingness to make their intentions and reasoning for their actions plain often magnifies the antipathy generated when changes occur- can you imagine how different the 7th Edition releases would have been if GW had taken the time to explain why a new edition was coming out so soon on the heels of the last one, why they were altering the format and content of codices, etc? Instead we see, at most, generic corporate doubletalk and litanies of "buy our new book, buy our new book." That's not to say that there aren't lots of rear end in a top hat fans or that everything every customer says should be taken as golden truth, but GW's willful ignorance of any kind of communicative media with its players is hard to see as anything but toxic. AbusePuppy fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 04:55
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For once I think Hollismason and I feel similarly. A big objection of mine is the fact that these recasts are likely made in factories employing terrible and exploitative working conditions. And whilst I sit here typing this on my iPhone I understand the hypocrisy; so much of what we consume in the west is produced in these conditions. I'm cognisant of that but I make, where I can, efforts to not be part of something that I see as an injustice. I also really like warhammer and I like the work that forgeworld and GW do. I want them to continue to make more stuff and, me participating in a knockoff market impacts on the success of their products and the likelihood that they can continue to produce more. Additionally I really like a lot of the internal ethos of GW. They're a British company, their production is, largely, British. They employ British workers and their manufacturing infrastructure is based in Britain. They could save so much money and raise their profits significantly by moving production off shore*. But, maybe for reasons similar to my own, they've decided not to do that. I have a lot of respect for that. Sure, I'd like cheaper toys but if they come at the expense of exploited workers and the stability of my favourite hobby it's not worth it. Finally, I've become friends with a bunch of people who work at forgeworld, Black Library or in the GW studio. They're great people and they deserve to be supported by my hobby dollar. *i am aware that some of GWs production, printing etc. is done off shore... But I think my point still stands. Cataphract fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 05:09
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Acebuckeye13 posted:So you should never buy used, never look for deals on ebay or from online retailers, never do anything but directly shovel money into GW's furnace, got it. Those things aren't morally ambiguous and based upon illegal practices, but I generally don't purchase second-hand for in-production models and I prefer to support my LGS as opposed to ordering from online retailers.
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Dec 16, 2014 05:17
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Mange Mite posted:What would that look like, exactly? I don't think there's anything GW could do to win back the bitter adult fan demographic. I also doubt anything they do other than lowering prices would actually stop people buying from recasters. We're talking about a group that, when they heard GW had generous customer service, ended up scamming for free kits so bad they had to change their policies. While this is true, I personally know people who have been buying GW for more than twenty years and who are in all other ways utterly law-abiding, yet GW's toxic attitude towards engaging with customers in the last few years has lead to them drifting away from the hobby or resorting to piracy. And it is because they feel that after decades of loyal custom they are being treated with contempt by the company. Whether the contempt is actually real or not, that impression is fostered by GW's behaviour. I am absolutely certain that of the people I know who have pirated the books and miniatures almost, if not all, of them would not be doing it* if GW hadn't alienated them over the the best part of a decade of astoundingly poor PR decisions. Some people are shits who will steal anything. Some people will do it because they feel they have been slighted or have already paid over the odds and thus are owed something. Better practices and engagement with the customers wouldn't do anything for the former, but it would ameliorate the latter. *They'd probably still be pirating the books, but in addition to buying the physical copies. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 05:21
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Enough recast chat! Who wants money? I want to give a certain special goon real american dollars in exchange for one Leman Russ dozer blade. I recently gave away the three I had to Tuxedo Jack and it's funny to me that I need one now. I'm just really tired of my Demolisher getting immobilized way the gently caress away from what it needs to shoot.
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Dec 16, 2014 05:24
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The Sex Cannon posted:Enough recast chat! PM me your address and I'll send you one for postage costs.
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Dec 16, 2014 05:29
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Those things aren't morally ambiguous and based upon illegal practices, but I generally don't purchase second-hand for in-production models and I prefer to support my LGS as opposed to ordering from online retailers. Well yeah, but I think the point was that it's silly to claim that recasting is driving GW out of business when, even if we focus down on just the comparatively small category (relative to GW's putrid business decisions generally) of "people who are still trying to play 40K without giving money to GW for new products," used models are probably chewing up much more of the market than recasts, and third party knockoffs (non-recast) are probably a fair bit too. Rapey Joe Stalin posted:While this is true, I personally know people who have been buying GW for more than twenty years and who are in all other ways utterly law-abiding, yet GW's toxic attitude towards engaging with customers in the last few years has lead to them drifting away from the hobby or resorting to piracy. And it is because they feel that after decades of loyal custom they are being treated with contempt by the company. Whether the contempt is actually real or not, that impression is fostered by GW's behaviour. This. I mean I don't own any recast models as of right now (I bought some backpack bits that may well have been recast, but I don't think FW sells those as bits anyway so it's literally a product they didn't want to try and sell me in the first place) but I nevertheless haven't given GW a red cent in 2+ years, with the exception of the 7E Dark Vengeance box which I only bought because eBay resellers are somehow even greedier than GW when it comes to selling you a copy of the goddamn rules, so I figured I might as well get a shitload of new models too. I bought IA13 and I consider it money well spent, but I can't bring myself to say the same about the models themselves, if I were to buy them. Not because they're not nice models or that the guys at the counter aren't lovely people, but because whoever prices them is mainlining their own liquefied farts. e: also, can someone source any evidence whatsoever for the idea that forge world recasts are made by workers shackled to a bench like my Galaxy 4 is? It always seemed preposterous to me just because resin spacemen have got to be a tiny blip on the market compared to electronics or knockoff handbags or poisoned dog food or whatever else you lay at China's feet. I always assumed the amount of volume could just be taken care of by a relatively small cadre of owner-operators pouring the resin. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 05:30
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ghetto wormhole posted:PM me your address and I'll send you one for postage costs. PM sent!
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Dec 16, 2014 05:44
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I haven't ever bought a recast but the casting quality is pretty loving atrocious on my Marauder (which I bought directly from Forge World), the suggestion that recasts are somehow worse are pretty amusing to me. I have been absolutely living the dream, if the dream constituted days of work fixing parts that shouldn't have made it through quality control.
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Dec 16, 2014 06:00
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Recastchat: I ordered several sets of Crimson Fists and tactical shoulderpads and backpacks and had a horrible bubbly, miscast mess as a result. I used GWs customer service to get another set and chalked it up to bad luck, until I ordered a techmarine with servo harness and again got a bubbly miscast hunk of poo poo. Same deal, GW customer service was fantastic and I chalked it up to being unlucky. Two weeks ago I had purchased a Chimera and Rhino/Razorback kit that I intend to use for an Inquisitional detachment. I went to Forgeworld and ordered the Inquisition doors, symbols, front panels, side doors and extra armour for both the Rhino and Chimera chassis (largely inspired by Carl's word bearer rhino he posted a few weeks ago). What I got was crap resin casts and malformed, ill-fitting plastics for practically the cost of another vehicle. I was willing to accept that I was going to need to clean and prepare the bits before placing them on the models, and I accept that there are some chances at getting stuff that should have been caught by QC, but this is 3 for 3 now. In my experience I've knowingly placed one order for 2 models with a recaster. The quality was as good as what I got from warmahordes boxes, which is to say, not up to GW's plastic sprue quality (expecially the Dark Eldar stuff holy poo poo) but worlds better than I've received from either GW or FW special orders. I've spent thrice on this hobby what I should have in my first year collecting and modeling and playing it. While I have little regret in getting into the hobby, I now own many models for which I've found myself regretting spending the extra money to buy legitimate product because I could have gotten better quality, higher detail, and for less cost by going to the chinese guys. I really like some of you guys (including Ghost Hand whom I seem to have found inspiration to contribute mostly lately by calling out for his FW defending), but there's more than just a gap between GW/FW's customer service and their customers, there's a real quality gap now as well. It's a level of disappointment up there with going to a fast food burger joint and looking at the difference between what's on the menu and what you unwrap in that tissue paper, to make an American-as-hell analogy. I'm glad that I've been working on a Dark Eldar army since the codex dropped because I'm probably going to stop collecting Imperial army stuff in the coming year and just focus on what I can get in glorious high detail plastics. I won't have to feel guilty about breaking the unspoken code of the adult plastic spaceman toys anti recaster society, but I won't blame a single one of you for going to China for higher quality models for less scratch. koreban fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 06:19
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Next week on White Dwarf: Angels fury spearhead force Formation: 3 tactical squads 3 stormraven gunships Restrictions: Each stormraven gunship must include10 models. The sergeant of each tactical squad in this formation must take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This formations tactical squads cannot take dedicated transports and must begin the game embarked in the stormraven gunships from this formation. Special rules: Augur triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve within 12" of at least two models from the formation equipped with teleport homers then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives. Objective secured: All troops units from this formation have the objective secured special rule (see page blah blah) Spearhead strike force: When making reserve rolls make a single roll for the entire formation, which you can choose to re-reoll. If successful, all units arrive from the formation.You can make a reserve roll for this formation from the start of turn 1.
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Dec 16, 2014 06:30
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MasterSlowPoke posted:Next week on White Dwarf: Preeeetty sweet, but that's like 1050 points base.
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Dec 16, 2014 06:36
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Does the teleport homer work when the models are embarked in a transport? Could you, theoretically, have the Stormravens fly in turn one, zoom 36 inches forward, and then call down three drop pods of Furioso Dreads from the goofy Elite detachment and have them charge at something you don't like? I mean, it would be entirely dependent on the first reserve roll going off, but if it's even possible to threaten something with a charge 60 inches from your board edge that'd be hilarious
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Dec 16, 2014 06:56
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