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Grabbed Slot 3.
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Dec 1, 2014 23:53
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| # ? May 28, 2024 10:36 |
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I haven't been playing Civ much lately, but I am studying game theory and started wondering about the state space of Civ V. State space is a measure of a strategy game's complexity, based on the number of different legal states a game can have. Tic-Tac-Toe has a state space of 7.65*10^2. Chess, a game where computer AI consistently defeats the best humans, has a state space around 10^50. Go, a game where human amateurs still crush the best computers, has a state space of 10^170. My conservative estimate of the state space for a single typical game of Civilization V is 10^36000. Take pity on the poor AI programmers, the problem of Civ V AI is completely different from a relatively easy game like chess.
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Dec 2, 2014 09:39
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Chamale posted:I haven't been playing Civ much lately, but I am studying game theory and started wondering about the state space of Civ V. State space is a measure of a strategy game's complexity, based on the number of different legal states a game can have. Tic-Tac-Toe has a state space of 7.65*10^2. Chess, a game where computer AI consistently defeats the best humans, has a state space around 10^50. Go, a game where human amateurs still crush the best computers, has a state space of 10^170. My conservative estimate of the state space for a single typical game of Civilization V is 10^36000. Take pity on the poor AI programmers, the problem of Civ V AI is completely different from a relatively easy game like chess. Well the problem with Civ V and similar games is really that there's pretty straightforward ways of the AI winning the game: Any coder can give the AI some basic building strategies and direct them to pounce on the player when they have a true military advantage, being sure to use units that they are most competent at using. And to be fair, those kinds of pre-made lists and strategies are at the core of grandmaster chess programs. The problem is constructing an AI that is competent and also fun to play against. Players don't want to pull their hair out trying to beat an AI that repeats the same winning strategies every time.
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Dec 2, 2014 10:07
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Kaal posted:Well the problem with Civ V and similar games is really that there's pretty straightforward ways of the AI winning the game: Any coder can give the AI some basic building strategies and direct them to pounce on the player when they have a true military advantage, being sure to use units that they are most competent at using. And to be fair, those kinds of pre-made lists and strategies are at the core of grandmaster chess programs. The problem is constructing an AI that is competent and also fun to play against. Players don't want to pull their hair out trying to beat an AI that repeats the same winning strategies every time. That's true. There's also the factor that human players have to deal with hidden information, while an AI is able to peek at other players if the coders decide to give it that power. In versions of Starcraft without hidden information, there have been quite effective bots that simply mimic the opponent's strategy while getting an advantage wherever possible. Abusing hidden information makes it much easier to create a skilled AI.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:52
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Last night my friend and I did standard multiplayer for the first time. There are some issues. When you interact with leaders the animations don't show up, it just stays on the map. We did Hotseat a month ago and that was fine, the leaders showed up. But now with both of us on our own computers it's weird. is this normal for Multiplayer? Can we switch leader screens on? Or is it something to do with the fact that I have BNW and he only has vanilla?
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Dec 3, 2014 04:18
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Standard multiplayer does not have leader screens. More annoyingly, it also doesn't have leaders independently contacting you (although denouncements and declarations of war can still happen, they just come in as a notification). Any and all diplomacy, including making peace, has to be initiated manually on your end.
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Dec 3, 2014 04:30
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Vil posted:Standard multiplayer does not have leader screens. There is a mod for that, though.
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Dec 3, 2014 07:45
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Sorry to the guys in the GMR game if I'm holding anything up. There was a blackout on Monday, and it caused my internet to gently caress up and stop working (Mostly because my internet provider is awful). I'm currently using a public computer to post this, but for some reason it won't let me log onto GMR through my steam account. My internet hopefully be fixed by tomorrow morning, and I just wanted to tell you guys in case you've started to pick Civilizations.
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Dec 3, 2014 15:43
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VerdantSquire posted:Sorry to the guys in the GMR game if I'm holding anything up. There was a blackout on Monday, and it caused my internet to gently caress up and stop working (Mostly because my internet provider is awful). I'm currently using a public computer to post this, but for some reason it won't let me log onto GMR through my steam account. My internet hopefully be fixed by tomorrow morning, and I just wanted to tell you guys in case you've started to pick Civilizations. Squidgeny is on holiday till Monday, so there’s no rush to start the game. You rolled a choice of Byzantium, Iroquois, or Portugal. Majormonotone chose Celts, BrotherMagneto chose Aztecs, Squidgeny chose Shoshone, God Emperor chose Greece, and I’m deciding between Siam and Netherlands.
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Dec 3, 2014 23:32
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Vil posted:Standard multiplayer does not have leader screens. That sucks. You think they would have fixed that by now. What's the mod?
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Dec 4, 2014 04:45
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FourLeaf posted:That sucks. You think they would have fixed that by now. What's the mod? Active AI in multiplayer
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Dec 4, 2014 07:34
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I whipped up a new (singleplayer-only) version of my Quality of Life modpack here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/3r6d784pkir3a3w/QoL_Modpack_v4.zip The mods included this time are: pre:- Antiquity Sites Icon Finder (v.1): allows filtering the resources view to show only antiquities - Civ-Linked Great Generals (v.2): adds new great general names based on owner's civilization - Dynamic Culture Overview (v.6): reads culture from included mods (by request) - Expanded Civilopedia Entries (v.33): fixes typos and outdated information, explains mechanics - Gibraltar and Reef Optimizations (v.1): tweaks Gibraltar/reef placements to fix mapgen issues - Great Prophet Historical Names (v.28): gives prophets names in the fashion of generals, etc. - Historical Religions Edit (v.6): adds many new choices for religions - InfoAddict (v.22): adds interface elements that provide more information to the player - Krajzen's Great Musicians Pack (v.1): adds new great works of music for flavor - Krakatoa Fix (v.100): tweaks Krakatoa placement to fix some map generation issues - More Great Works (v.3): adds many new artist and writer great works - Quick Turns (v.10): automatically skips AI unit movement/combat based on player-set criteria - R.E.D. Modpack (v.28 unofficial): adds flavor graphics and rescales units based on civ - R.E.D. Smaller Landmarks (v.5): makes buildings/improvements scale relative to units - Randomize City Names (v.2): loads the city list in a random order, for variation across games - Really Advanced Setup (v.13): adds new options to the game setup screen
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Dec 9, 2014 01:17
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Awesome, thanks again for putting that together! I'll probably be starting a new game with it sometime in the next couple of days.
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Dec 9, 2014 03:49
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I just played a game as Denmark yesterday where I started near Kilimanjaro. The amphibious raids were amazing. Berserkers were leaping out of the ocean and sprinting across hills and getting to inland cities in one turn. If a city was within three hexes of the ocean, it was in danger.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:39
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The Human Crouton posted:I just played a game as Denmark yesterday where I started near Kilimanjaro. The amphibious raids were amazing. Berserkers were leaping out of the ocean and sprinting across hills and getting to inland cities in one turn. If a city was within three hexes of the ocean, it was in danger. See also: Zulu + Kilimanjaro, Inca + Kilimanjaro 
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Dec 9, 2014 17:25
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Multiplayer patch incoming, according to the Firaxis twitter. http://www.civilization.com/en/news/2014-12-civilization-v-multiplayer-update-in-progress/
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Dec 12, 2014 21:34
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Athaboros posted:I whipped up a new (singleplayer-only) version of my Quality of Life modpack here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/3r6d784pkir3a3w/QoL_Modpack_v4.zip Permission not granted.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:44
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Athaboros posted:No mods that modify DLL, though there are several I'd love to include. I'm open to suggestions, comments, criticisms, etc. I have all of the DLC and don't have any other mods running. I can't think of anything else with my setup that would cause an error. I'm not sure if I'm the only one having the error, but if other people are and you need more info from me, let me know!
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Dec 12, 2014 23:05
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Hannibal Smith posted:I seem to be having issues with the Advanced Setup portion of the mod. When I start a new game and hit the Advanced Setup button, all of the mod's menus load, but all of the options and dropdown menus are blank and the back button doesn't work. The only way to get out seems to be alt-F4. I have the same error, so opted to not use advanced setup for now. The rest of the pack however is great! (though I think some bomber animations may be bugged, there are times when they loop for ~10 seconds before finishing the animation)
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Dec 15, 2014 01:11
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Trivia posted:I have the same error, so opted to not use advanced setup for now. Hannibal Smith posted:I seem to be having issues with the Advanced Setup portion of the mod. When I start a new game and hit the Advanced Setup button, all of the mod's menus load, but all of the options and dropdown menus are blank and the back button doesn't work. The only way to get out seems to be alt-F4. Thanks folks. There does seem to be an issue with RAS. I hear that Firaxis is working on a hotfix patch that's due soon, so I'll wait to roll up the fixes to this pack after they've pushed that out. Sorry for the frustration there. Golden Bee posted:Permission not granted. This link seems to be working fine; perhaps MediaFire had some kind of hiccup.
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Dec 15, 2014 18:41
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 Multiplayer update is out.
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Dec 15, 2014 23:31
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Athaboros posted:This link seems to be working fine; perhaps MediaFire had some kind of hiccup. I'm getting the same thing, "Permission not granted".
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Dec 16, 2014 00:48
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RagnarokAngel posted:I'm getting the same thing, "Permission not granted". No idea what happened. I get that error with Chrome in incognito, but not with any other browsers (none of which are logged in). Anyway, try this link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/3r6d784pkir3a3w/QoL_Modpack_v4.zip Note that I haven't updated this for the new patch yet, so I can't guarantee if it works any more. RAS is also borked, but that shouldn't affect anything if you stay away from that menu.
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Dec 16, 2014 03:59
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If anyone wants in on a new GMR game, I set one up on a custom map of a terraformed Mars. It's a rad map, otherwise there's no mods or anything. G+K, BNW, plus all DLC civs. I opened it up to pubbies too since the map is so big it really needs 12 players.
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Dec 16, 2014 21:49
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Peas and Rice posted:If anyone wants in on a new GMR game, I set one up on a custom map of a terraformed Mars. It's a rad map, otherwise there's no mods or anything. G+K, BNW, plus all DLC civs. Sure, I'll give it a shot. Oh, FYI, "vanilla civ" is usually used to refer to Civ without expansions, so I was initially confused by that statement in the game description.
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Dec 16, 2014 22:12
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Oops, sorry. I meant no mods apart from the custom map.
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Dec 17, 2014 06:28
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Played as inca for the first time on prince, was amazing how dominating it was. Had a good 2nd town surrounded by mountains and rushed terraced gardens, had 2-3 5 food tiles before turn 40, after that I just ran away with the game. Only had 3 cities until finally Napoleon decided to try and smack me around, took his cap and 2 more wonders and that was pretty much it. Decided to win with a political victory and was surprised how pathetically easy it was without Alexander in the game.
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Dec 17, 2014 12:18
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Yeah - the AI only wins diplomatic victories by accident.
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Dec 17, 2014 14:09
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Although I have noticed that if you get close to one, they'll set about trying to physically kill your city-states to deny you the votes.
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Dec 17, 2014 14:12
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Washout posted:Played as inca for the first time on prince, was amazing how dominating it was. Had a good 2nd town surrounded by mountains and rushed terraced gardens, had 2-3 5 food tiles before turn 40, after that I just ran away with the game. Only had 3 cities until finally Napoleon decided to try and smack me around, took his cap and 2 more wonders and that was pretty much it. Decided to win with a political victory and was surprised how pathetically easy it was without Alexander in the game. Inca are crazy good on any difficulty. Farms on any and hills? Mega farms near mountains? Ignore hill movement penalty and super-cheap roads? They're rated at one of the strongest civs for a reason. If you play as them you'll also find yourself declaring war because the other guy has mountains much the same way the Dutch will declare war because the other guy has a pile of flood plains to polder up.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:20
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DeathChicken posted:Although I have noticed that if you get close to one, they'll set about trying to physically kill your city-states to deny you the votes. I think that's a coincidence of them just getting aggressive when you're close to victory. I tend to go diplo victory, and I've lost count of the number of times the AI just sat there with a thousand times more gold than me and let me win. I've considered disabling it because it's so broken in that respect, but the end game is such a slog and it's usually the quickest way to go.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:47
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I feel like most of my victories come from either science or culture, and the culture victories are usually just side effects of going for domination. Seems like there's always one ore two AIs that never ever build up their culture levels at all. By the time the end of the game has come around, I've already got influence over them, and I go kill off the one other civ that I'm trying to catch up on. That, or I get so far ahead of everyone on tech and don't want to slog through killing everyone that I just build my spaceship parts to get the game over with. I did play one game on huge, and domination only victory. It got a little tiring pushing my way through the world taking out like 50 cities. Anyway, I'm working my way through all the different civs and I'm on Austria. I'm not even really sure if I should use their UA to buy up city-states. Seems like it's almost better to have them keep feeding me. Anyone have an opinion on what to do?
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Dec 17, 2014 18:28
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Meltathon posted:Anyway, I'm working my way through all the different civs and I'm on Austria. I'm not even really sure if I should use their UA to buy up city-states. Seems like it's almost better to have them keep feeding me. Anyone have an opinion on what to do? If they have map resources you need and a decent location, you might as well integrate them into the empire. Conversely, if they have a useful trait (e.g. mercantile or maritime) and especially if their city is lovely, there's no reason to buy them up. Also re: domination, all victories become easier when you're pounding your opponents into the dirt. One of the reasons it's a shame the "diplomatic" victory in this game involves zero actual diplomacy. Hell, (peaceful) cultural victories involve more diplomacy because it's a lot harder to get influential over a civ when they won't trade with you or give you open borders. I've had games where I had to go to war with a civ solely so I could move my Great Musicians into their territory for an offensive rock opera. Didn't really care about fighting them, just...listen to my music, goddamn it!
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Dec 17, 2014 18:34
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Generally I look for one "core" city-state with a good strategic location and high-value terrain that I can afford to lose as an ally and aim to buy it out, then I ignore Austria's ability unless there's a resource or plot of land that I really desperately need.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:11
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I vaguely remember city states from vanilla civ 5 having awesome locations and growing into huge cities that rivalled the 2nd settled cities from the major civs. They even generally had most of the natural wonders within their borders. Ever since Gods and Kings even, city states seem to be these pathetically small things are are 90% of the time not even worth owning. Am I just misremembering things, or has anyone else noticed that.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:16
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Always seems like a crap shoot for city-states. There's usually one ore two ones in a really good spot and with a natural wonder in its boundaries, and then there are a few stuck surrounded by tundra, or only tiny islands. Playing continents plus, they city-states are almost always on some crap island.
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Dec 17, 2014 20:33
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Meltathon posted:Always seems like a crap shoot for city-states. There's usually one ore two ones in a really good spot and with a natural wonder in its boundaries, and then there are a few stuck surrounded by tundra, or only tiny islands. Playing continents plus, they city-states are almost always on some crap island. Don't all of the "whatever plus" maps banish the city-states to tiny islands? I seem to recall hearing that before.
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Dec 17, 2014 20:37
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Some end up on the main continents, but yes, almost all will end up on tiny islands. Usually three or four city states clustered together on islands. Continents plus pretty much leaves a lot more space for the Civs to develop. I like playing continents plus unless I'm playing as a city-state heavy civ like Greece, or Siam. It usually takes longer to find the city-states because you need to send boats out looking for them instead of just a scout.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:48
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I think you can modify the game files for Continents Plus/Pangaea Plus to prevent the city-states from being exiled to tiny fringe islands.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:51
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| # ? May 28, 2024 10:36 |
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What are some of the weirdest maps you've ever gotten? I got a Continents map that ended up with three civs (including mine) getting their own little continents, and there was another continent that was taken up by four city-states.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:57
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