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It's kind of bizarre since marvel coming up with mutants entirely predates it, but the whole mutants thing only needs a few minor tweaks to work really well as a war on terror metaphor from a muslim perspective.Lurdiak posted:Being a good metaphor for things is the main reason the franchise has done so well over the years. All the stuff they actually INTEND to use it as a metaphor for it works terribly for though. reignonyourparade fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 18:22
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Being a good metaphor for things is the main reason the franchise has done so well over the years.
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Dec 16, 2014 18:25
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Lurdiak posted:Being a good metaphor for things is the main reason the franchise has done so well over the years. They do a great job of representing: A. Minorities B. Teenagers The second is probably the bigger part of their popularity, but you can substitute mutants for any oppressed group you want.
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Dec 16, 2014 18:30
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Has there ever been an X Men / Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles crossover?
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Dec 16, 2014 18:37
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Daredevil/TMNT would be better.
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Dec 16, 2014 20:05
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TMNT/Daredevil/Teen Titans/X-men/Spider-man. The Spider-man part is to boost sales.
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Dec 16, 2014 20:06
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notthegoatseguy posted:Daredevil/TMNT would be better. TMNT origin already includes such a crossover. (But I'm guessing you already knew that.)
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Dec 16, 2014 20:08
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greatn posted:Has there ever been an X Men / Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles crossover? 
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Dec 16, 2014 20:14
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reignonyourparade posted:It's kind of bizarre since marvel coming up with mutants entirely predates it, but the whole mutants thing only needs a few minor tweaks to work really well as a war on terror metaphor from a muslim perspective. Yeah. A terrorist leader of a denounced minority attacking civilians in the name of a superior way of life, and that minority then being hounded as a resu.t Not seeing the resemblence.
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Dec 16, 2014 21:46
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People are saying "this bigotry doesn't make sense" as though any bigotry ever makes sense. Think of it this way. The average blue collar Joe who just lost his job will hate the guy born into wealth, not the guy who won the lottery. Also, there IS a massive hate campaign centered around Spider-man, or else Jameson's Fox-like media empire would be insolvent.
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Dec 16, 2014 21:59
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SlimGoodbody posted:Think of it this way. The average blue collar Joe who just lost his job will hate the guy born into wealth, not the guy who won the lottery. In fact, just this week there was a big "controversy" because a registered sex offender won the lottery, and people were pissed because they think the system shouldn't reward bad people. edit: And yeah, bigotry is usually really, really easy to understand, what are you on about
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Dec 16, 2014 22:04
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Mutant hate in X-Men is about capturing the emotional reality of being prejudiced against, not representing the societal forces that cause people to be bigoted. It makes for entertaining mutant-focused character-driven stories. It falls apart when you try to examine it as a "world building" exercise. So, enjoy the former and try not to get too invested in the latter.
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Dec 16, 2014 22:13
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theflyingorc posted:hahahaha what, yes they will. And in terms of random luck, I'd be hard pressed to find a way they aren't really close to equivalent. First point, people might be envious of those who luck into wealth, but they have seething class hatred for people who have always had wealth and whose families have always had wealth and for whom wealth is taken for granted. Second point: please do go on about the easy, rational, and logical seeds of bigotry. I'm legitimately curious as to why you think this.
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Dec 16, 2014 22:18
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SlimGoodbody posted:First point, people might be envious of those who luck into wealth, but they have seething class hatred for people who have always had wealth and whose families have always had wealth and for whom wealth is taken for granted. quote:Second point: please do go on about the easy, rational, and logical seeds of bigotry. I'm legitimately curious as to why you think this. And again, we're not really talking about "why do they hate mutants" but rather "why DON'T they hate the other heroes." And, as a counterpoint to your own example, why don't they hate the Fantastic Four, specifically? The only reason they have powers is they were born into families with enough connections to get them into goddamn space, no? Sir Kodiak posted:Mutant hate in X-Men is about capturing the emotional reality of being prejudiced against, not representing the societal forces that cause people to be bigoted. It makes for entertaining mutant-focused character-driven stories. It falls apart when you try to examine it as a "world building" exercise. So, enjoy the former and try not to get too invested in the latter. 
theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 22:25
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The Fantastic Four are all publicly known, have kids, and have visibly saved the world from Galactus. They're like celebrities and people are more accepting of them because of their family aspect, and the fact they're always in the news and super visible. Meanwhile the X-Men are usually saving the world from another mutant who has caused a lot of harm, and are insular and not celebrated or really publicly known.
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Dec 16, 2014 22:30
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All of the X-Men's heroics are done Black Ops style. Most of it happens in secret underground labs or in the Savage Land. And even when it does happen in cities, it's never clear if they are saving people, or just cleaning up another mutant's mess. That's why one of the first thing Cyclops did with his Extinction Team was get a PR person and try and display them as heroes. (Pro-Tip, do not name a Heroic group EXTINCTION TEAM.)
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Dec 16, 2014 23:41
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The Question IRL posted:Pro-Tip, do not name a Heroic group EXTINCTION TEAM. To be fair, all the good X- names have been taken. X-Patriot and X-Terminate were vetoed, and X-py is to TV Tropes.
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Dec 17, 2014 00:10
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CzarChasm posted:See, this is where branding helps. If the X-men were instead known as "The Brotherhood of Good Mutants", then people would know right away where they stand. But "X-men"? Well that could mean anything. I finally realized how stupid Xavier is. He names a team X-Men, his first initial. But then hides the fact that everything he's doing is mutant related. YOU PUT YOUR NAME ON THE TEAM. I may be as dumb as Xavier for only just now figuring this out.
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Dec 17, 2014 00:39
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IUG posted:I finally realized how stupid Xavier is. He names a team X-Men, his first initial. But then hides the fact that everything he's doing is mutant related. YOU PUT YOUR NAME ON THE TEAM. No no, he didn't name them after himself! Professor X posted:they "possess an extra power... one which ordinary humans do not!! That is why I call my students... X-Men, for EX-tra power!"
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Dec 17, 2014 00:43
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Professor Xavier... is a JERK!
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Dec 17, 2014 00:52
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redbackground posted:Technically yes, in that this piece of fanart exists: ...who is the Colossus turtle?
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Dec 17, 2014 01:22
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Magneto Rex posted:...who is the Colossus turtle? I think that's supposed to be Metalhead
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Dec 17, 2014 01:24
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Waterhaul posted:Either way the idea of minorities pretending to be "normal" is never going to fly and rightly so. I think in something like the comics this could be a really interesting story. In the real world you get stories of people who have hidden their racial, ethnic, sexual and/or religious backgrounds in various times and places in order to avoid various persecutions. It's something that wouldn't likely fly so well in 'modern' Marvel Universe where I think the mutant fear has become somewhat lessened, but some 20-25 years ago I think it could have been a fairly good basis of a character: A mutant intentionally hiding the fact they're a mutant to be a respected superhero, the sort of personal and social ramifications of it with perhaps a few members of the mutant/human community that would know it, etc. I know it was sort of done the opposite way for House of M Spider-Man, though, and a bit less emphasized as the central focus of Jan in the Ultimates.
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Dec 17, 2014 05:34
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IUG posted:I finally realized how stupid Xavier is. He names a team X-Men, his first initial. But then hides the fact that everything he's doing is mutant related. YOU PUT YOUR NAME ON THE TEAM. I like to call them the former men
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Dec 17, 2014 05:50
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The biggest thing I find implausible about mutants and super powered people in general is how Tony Stark is pretty much the only dude who has figured out to become crazy rich in the marvel universe and he doesn't even have any powers! It's always normal guys like Lex Luthor, Bruce Wayne and T'Challa that are controlling the economy and not people like say holy poo poo Magneto or Storm or the Shadow King or any number of people making billions of dollars off their super powers and doing crazy things to the global economy. Basically, Kid Marvelman would be the real threat and it would be a huge issue
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Dec 17, 2014 06:11
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fozzy fosbourne posted:The biggest thing I find implausible about mutants and super powered people in general is how Tony Stark is pretty much the only dude who has figured out to become crazy rich in the marvel universe and he doesn't even have any powers! It's always normal guys like Lex Luthor, Bruce Wayne and T'Challa that are controlling the economy and not people like say holy poo poo Magneto or Storm or the Shadow King or any number of people making billions of dollars off their super powers and doing crazy things to the global economy. What do you call the Hellfire Club?
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Dec 17, 2014 06:20
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Also I don't think Dr Doom was always a ruler of his own country, was he?
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Dec 17, 2014 06:24
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bobkatt013 posted:What do you call the Hellfire Club? Ehhh, I guess. They were more about Claremont basically watching an episode of Avengers and deciding to write it into his comics. The fact that the Hellfire club had super powers was more of an afterthought if anything and given the powers available to them they have had a pretty pathetic impact on society. I've always thought the premise is kind of half assed and again I think it stems out of that fact that it was more strongly inspired by emulating stories about non-powered secret societies than really letting one's imagination go wild when it comes to the economic power that these people would have Think of the social upheaval someone like the White Queen or Magneto or Storm could cause if they used their power purely for economic domination as opposed to the usual "I'm going to flip some cars over in Times Square and immediately get apprehended" villain shtick Edit post: I'm referring to the comic hellfire club, forgot which thread I'm in. But.. I legitimately don't even remember what the First Class Hellfire Club accomplished or what they were trying to do which I think says something Edit: Doom is a lot closer to what I would expect a competent powerhouse to be capable of, yep. Pro as hell, makes other villains look like chumps for the most part. Probably the coolest villain in comics. I'm sure he will be a terrific redditor or whatever the hell they are making him in the movie 
fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 06:34
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It seems Viola Davis is Amanda Waller
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Dec 17, 2014 08:43
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I'm not familiar with her work, and she might be the most amazing actress alive, but she is not Oprah, and after that rumor I will settle for nothing less than The Wall's Book Club.
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Dec 17, 2014 09:37
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Oprah would be awesome as it's the crazy star attached to the role casting, Davis is the far better choice as she's a way better actor and has more of a chance of committing to the role for a while .
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Dec 17, 2014 09:58
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enigma105 posted:To be fair, all the good X- names have been taken. X-Patriot and X-Terminate were vetoed, and X-py is to TV Tropes. Team X-Mas.
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Dec 17, 2014 12:02
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fozzy fosbourne posted:Ehhh, I guess. They were more about Claremont basically watching an episode of Avengers and deciding to write it into his comics. The fact that the Hellfire club had super powers was more of an afterthought if anything and given the powers available to them they have had a pretty pathetic impact on society. I've always thought the premise is kind of half assed and again I think it stems out of that fact that it was more strongly inspired by emulating stories about non-powered secret societies than really letting one's imagination go wild when it comes to the economic power that these people would have I know the White Queen (I think in Generation X) was a teenage runaway that used her mental powers to gain stock tips and insider trading, eventually rolling in the green.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:45
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I am fine with this. She's been pretty great on HTGAWM.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:49
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Shageletic posted:I know the White Queen (I think in Generation X) was a teenage runaway that used her mental powers to gain stock tips and insider trading, eventually rolling in the green. The magician Kaluu used his black magic to make piles of money through stock trades. I think his goal was primarily "make it so money isn't something I have to care about".
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Dec 17, 2014 15:53
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theflyingorc posted:I think there are some issues of Ultimate Spider-man where some anti-mutant stuff gets pointed at him. This isn't quite right. People hate and fear homosexuals. That the nature vs. nurture argument comes up is a product of that hate and fear, not the cause of it. If you really hated the idea of someone being gay then it would terrify you to think your kid could just happen to turn out that way no matter what you do. The fiction of choosing to be gay is much easier to accept because then all those hated gays are immoral or the children of bad parents.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:12
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Lobok posted:This isn't quite right. People hate and fear homosexuals. That the nature vs. nurture argument comes up is a product of that hate and fear, not the cause of it. If you really hated the idea of someone being gay then it would terrify you to think your kid could just happen to turn out that way no matter what you do. The fiction of choosing to be gay is much easier to accept because then all those hated gays are immoral or the children of bad parents. Homophobes can work around that; in my own church (context: I live in Northern Ireland), we had a guest speaker one Sunday who acknowledged that homosexuality is not a choice, then went on to describe people who "suffer from same-sex attraction". In other words, "It isn't a choice; it's a disease."
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Dec 17, 2014 16:25
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Lobok posted:This isn't quite right. People hate and fear homosexuals. That the nature vs. nurture argument comes up is a product of that hate and fear, not the cause of it. If you really hated the idea of someone being gay then it would terrify you to think your kid could just happen to turn out that way no matter what you do. The fiction of choosing to be gay is much easier to accept because then all those hated gays are immoral or the children of bad parents. The distinction isn't really critical to my point, though. Mutants being treated different from every other power source is a plot device. I'm fine with it, but people who protest mutants would also protest Spider-man.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:15
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Spiderman is black though, and Jewish as well, so anyone who protests him is an antisemitic racist just like J Jonah Jameson.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:31
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theflyingorc posted:The distinction isn't really critical to my point, though. Mutants being treated different from every other power source is a plot device. I'm fine with it, but people who protest mutants would also protest Spider-man. Yeah. Like in real life, how people who protest gay marriage also protest divorce and the Soviet Union never signed a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany and everyone has a completely logical set of beliefs with no contradictions.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:38
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