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Frostwerks posted:Is this book GoT, cuz I don't remember this from the show? It's the impending battle in the Winterfell storyline in the books.
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Dec 17, 2014 02:20
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How does Stannis lose his army? Exposure?
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Dec 17, 2014 02:42
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Frostwerks posted:How does Stannis lose his army? Exposure? Basically. They're on a long march through the north in the middle of massive snowstorm. They're half-starved and freezing.
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Dec 17, 2014 03:02
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Sounds like a regular Napoleon.
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Dec 17, 2014 03:09
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Someone floated the idea of a Battle of the Ice type scenarioquote:According to contemporary Russian chronicles, after hours of hand-to-hand fighting, Alexander ordered the left and right wings of his archers to enter the battle. The knights by that time were exhausted from the constant struggle on the slippery surface of the frozen lake. The Crusaders started to retreat in disarray deeper onto the ice, and the appearance of the fresh Russian cavalry made them run for their lives. When the knights attempted to rally at the far side of the lake, the thin ice began to give way under the weight of their heavy armour, and many knights drowned. But I don't think there's a significant body of water near Winterfell. e. Long Lake maybe? I can't remember where the books end, though. Long Lake is pretty far north of Winterfell. unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 03:10
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unlimited shrimp posted:Someone floated the idea of a Battle of the Ice type scenario Stannis' army is literally camped on a large lake that his men have been destabilizing the ice on to fish out.
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Dec 17, 2014 03:13
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There's a massive tome written about Stannis' plans on the battle. https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-night-lamp-revisited-the-wrath-of-the-old-and-the-new/ The author believes Stannis will fake the lighthouse to lure Frey's onto the weakened frozen lake, complete with MS Paint pictures of the battle terrain. The whole manifesto is a decent read, even if some of it is a stretch. The author thinks that Stannis is going to fake his death and Mance is going to kill Ramsey in the crypts and take his place with the ruby cuff, which sounds plausible, but too neat for GRRM.
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Dec 17, 2014 04:07
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rapeface posted:There's a massive tome written about Stannis' plans on the battle. https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-night-lamp-revisited-the-wrath-of-the-old-and-the-new/ The author believes Stannis will fake the lighthouse to lure Frey's onto the weakened frozen lake, complete with MS Paint pictures of the battle terrain. I was going to post the Mannifesto when I saw this discussion! I'm a firm believer in that being how Stannis defeats the Frey forces, but there's a lot of other stuff in there that, while cool, we wouldn't have a POV into, making it seem wildly out of left field when the results are revealed. Like the insanity around what he thinks Val is doing, or how Stannis will fake an assault on the Dreadfort to draw out Bolton and then crush him against the walls of the castle. For the battle, though, we'll have both Theon and Asha present. And the vision of the Freys sinking into a crumbling lake is what I want more than anything else out of TWOW.
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Dec 17, 2014 04:36
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rapeface posted:There's a massive tome written about Stannis' plans on the battle. https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-night-lamp-revisited-the-wrath-of-the-old-and-the-new/ The author believes Stannis will fake the lighthouse to lure Frey's onto the weakened frozen lake, complete with MS Paint pictures of the battle terrain. I've no interest in reading it so what's this Ruby Cuff?
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Dec 17, 2014 10:22
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Stannis is probably one of the best generals in series. He beat the Greyjoys at sea and he smashed the Wildlings north of the Wall. He's got got northman with him, I' sure he'll pull through with some kind of victory against the Freys and Boltons.
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Dec 17, 2014 10:25
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rapeface posted:There's a massive tome written about Stannis' plans on the battle. https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-night-lamp-revisited-the-wrath-of-the-old-and-the-new/ The author believes Stannis will fake the lighthouse to lure Frey's onto the weakened frozen lake, complete with MS Paint pictures of the battle terrain. Seeing how plans usually work out for the good guys I'm convinced Manderly's men will be the only ones to die when the ice collapses, then the Freys will backstab the survivors and murder/capture Stannis' whole army after the comet from Clash of Kings fell down on Stannis.
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Dec 17, 2014 10:28
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Frostwerks posted:I've no interest in reading it so what's this Ruby Cuff? The thing Melisandre uses to disguise Mance as Rattleshirt so Stannis doesn't burn alive him for being a traitor.
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Dec 17, 2014 10:36
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By reading it, I do mean the books.
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Dec 17, 2014 10:46
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Well wait for it to become television then or go read Mances wiki entry if it's not too much of a challenge for you.
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Dec 17, 2014 11:06
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Professor Shark posted:I picked up The World of Ice and Fire and have been randomly reading up on histories, and two things jumped out at me: I completely un-ironically would love some form of the merman theory to be true holy poo poo it would be so amazing.
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Dec 17, 2014 11:46
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Dragonstoned posted:Well wait for it to become television then or go read Mances wiki entry if it's not too much of a challenge for you. Oh gently caress yourself. I made the egregious mistake of searching Mance's wiki for "cuff" instead of "ruby" and now you're acting like a bitch because my go-to book resource didn't mention the word that I searched for. In fact, The Night Lamp blog entry control+f returns nothing for either word! Sorry, but GRRM is drat competent at world building and lore which is why I find it so intriguing but his writing isn't worth enduring and I'm not going to read a loving couple hundred thousand words just to find the answer to a simple question in the spoilers allowed thread. Hell, you in fact gave me a satisfactory answer in the response that you made immediately before my question before you got snarky in the post you made immediately after. If you don't want to answer what you feel is a lovely or lazy question then you don't have to.
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Dec 17, 2014 12:40
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Justin Credible posted:I completely un-ironically would love some form of the merman theory to be true holy poo poo it would be so amazing. Here is the entry in it's entirety: quote:A possibility arises for a third race to have inhabited the Seven Kingdoms in the Dawn Age, but it is so speculative that it need only be dealt with briefly. Then later, in the Iron Islands section: quote:Archmaester Haereg once advanced the interesting notion that the ancestors of the ironborn came from some unknown land est of the Sunset Sea, citing the legend of the Seastone Chair. The throne of the Greyjoys, carved into the shape of a kraken from an oily black stone, was said to have been found by the First Men when they first came to Old Wyk. Haereg argued that the chair was a product of the first inhabitants of the islands, and only the later histories of the maesters and septons alike began to claim that they were in fact descended of the First Men... Upon reflection I guess I was making a leap to Merpeople, but I still think that is where GRRM is going with it, if only to screw with the fans
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Dec 17, 2014 13:13
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Cantuse' theory co-opts a lot of the more salient points from well-established theories, while including his patented conspiratorial bullshit where everything is a secret reference to something else and Occam's razor need not apply. He reminds me a lot of Preston Jacobs because they were both "late-comers" to ASOIAF theory crafting and decided to make their mark on the fandom by presenting theories that are notably unconventional just for the sake of being novel. The annoying thing is Cantuse's close-readings occasionally yield interesting information or ideas (Stannis burning the weirwood as a Night Lamp, for example), but he makes a habit of going way too far with the speculation (Jon somehow appropriated visions of Ramsay in his dreams, Melisandre is somehow responsible for everything it seems). Cantuse has a particular obsession with magic to the point where he'll insert magical elements in places where they might not otherwise be appropriate; the "Ruby Cuff" to him is what lemon cakes are for Sansa given how often it comes up in his writings.Professor Shark posted:Upon reflection I guess I was making a leap to Merpeople, but I still think that is where GRRM is going with it, if only to screw with the fans I think was the intended take-away. That's certainly how I read it and it's not an uncommon interpretation. It's probably a just a wink at the audience, but it still raises interesting questions about the world and shouldn't be entirely dismissed as just a joke. Merlings aren't going to factor into the plot, but they're still a part of the world like dinosaurs and bird people. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 13:54
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Justin Credible posted:I completely un-ironically would love some form of the merman theory to be true holy poo poo it would be so amazing. Oh that's not all. -The Velaryons got their "driftwood throne" from the "merling king." -The Grey King was married to a mermaid and wore a driftwood crown. -Garth Greenhand also sounds extremely similar to the Grey King with the green hair:  -The Griffon King had Merling friends. -Owen Oakenshield who conquered the shield Islands drove the Merlings into the sea. -There was a sorceress called Ursula Upcliff who claimed to be the Merling King's bride. -There are evil black scaled mermaids in the east -Ironborn priests claim they are close to Merlings -The Lorathi were destroyed by Merlings and or "walrus-men." Makes you wonder if there are any other characters who could be hiding green hair and wear makeup to make their skin darker... 
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Dec 17, 2014 14:55
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Rosscifer posted:-There was a sorceress called Ursula Upcliff who claimed to be the Merling King's bride. 
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Dec 17, 2014 15:44
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Wait, does a merman need to paddle?
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Dec 17, 2014 15:48
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Rosscifer posted:Oh that's not all. The "Varys is a Merman" theory is one of my favorite crazy theories (another is that Varys is Illyrio's wife and fake Aegon's mother). There's other evidence for it besides the shaven head. The only time anyone mentions seeing Varys' teeth is when they are disguised with fake rotten teeth. This is because his teeth are sharp (Biter is a merman too).. When someone threatens to throw Varys into the sea, he says something along the lines of "You might be surprised with what happens if you do that". Kings Landing has lots of canals and waterways, this is how Varys gets around secretly.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:03
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If GRRM just ripped off a bunch of the theories going around on the Internet, he wouldn't even have to do any writing.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:36
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I know it's mostly a byproduct of both the overall popularity and the timeframe between published material, but has there been any other series with as many crazy theories as ASoIaF?
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Dec 17, 2014 17:16
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lifts cats over head posted:I know it's mostly a byproduct of both the overall popularity and the timeframe between published material, but has there been any other series with as many crazy theories as ASoIaF? There's Homestuck, for exactly the same reason, if that counts.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:18
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lifts cats over head posted:I know it's mostly a byproduct of both the overall popularity and the timeframe between published material, but has there been any other series with as many crazy theories as ASoIaF? Lost comes to mind.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:23
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You're right,
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Dec 17, 2014 17:31
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ASOIAF and Lost had the "I bet this is all building up towards something!" factor going for them, Of course with Lost this turned out to be pure bullshit and nothing but a specific atmosphere that the writers cultivated but my point is that once viewers/readers are encouraged to think that these loose strands are all supposed to intertwine in some unique fashion that is supposed to be foreshadowed by the existing text it kind of lends itself towards crazy speculation. As you said, with GRRM's writing habits poo poo has gone absolutely crazy. Even if Tolkien took 10 year break between the LOTR novels would there be that much room for theory crafting? Another counter example would be King's The Dark Tower, where it would be obvious to readers that there's absolutely no point speculating about future plot developments given it was obvious he was just making poo poo up as he goes.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:40
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lifts cats over head posted:You're right, asoiaf fans will be just as disappointed as lost fans were with the eventual conclusion and the fact that they wasted so much of their lives
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Dec 17, 2014 17:45
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BillBear posted:Talking about Stannis, I have a really bad feeling he won't survive the upcoming battle.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:04
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GRRM is on the record hating Lost's ending though so I think he'll at least try to do better.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:13
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GRRM is on the record saying a lot of things but they don't always pan out. You usually have to add a few years to his speculations for example
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Dec 17, 2014 18:16
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BillBear posted:Talking about Stannis, I have a really bad feeling he won't survive the upcoming battle. There's NO way Bolton can lose the upcoming fight unless he decides "Hey, you know what would be cool? I'll just leave my huge heated fortress to go out and battle in the middle of a blizzard!" which, as we know is something Roose would never do (I know he sent out the Freys and some of Manderly's knights but most of his forces are inside WF). People often point out to me that Manderly is plotting treason but he's currently knocked out and Roose knows he's plotting to depose him so I don't see that working out well for him. Stannis has less men, is starved and his army's morale is plummeting rapidly, how the gently caress is he going to win? Not to mention Roose has one of the most formidable fortresses in the world. The thing is, you're correct in your assessment that trying to storm Winterfell under the current circumstances is an incredibly stupid idea, but you seem to be assuming that Stannis doesn't know that just as well as Roose does, or that he would try to do it anyway. Neither of these seem likely to me in the slightest. Recklessness and naivete are not among Stannis' faults. He'll use his lake trick to win a victory in the field, then use some type of subterfuge (probably involving Mance and/or Manderly, or maybe even Theon (but that's just wishful thinking on my part)) to take Winterfell. Or that's most likely his plan, anyway; if it relies too heavily on Mance it might end up getting sabotaged. At any rate I'm estimating a 65% chance that wukkar's hypothesis re Melisandre and Shireen turns out to be accurate no matter what happens at Winterfell.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:27
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I always felt that Shireen existed at the Wall to spread Greyscale amongst the recently reinforced garrison because no one can have a good day in GoT. There were repeated references to Shireen's Greyscale and Jon specifically noted when the mother kissed the cheek without it. It fits with the narrative element of every section of the world getting hit by war, disease and starvation. Connington has Greyscale, Mereen has the Pale Mare and GRRM made a big deal about how limited supplies were at the wall (before and after Jon's negotiations with the Iron Bank) and everyone being wary of Shireen. Of course, none of this would stop Mellisendre from sacrificing Shireen to save Jon. She could simply do it after the disease has spread. Alternatively, the emphasis on Greyscale and the diseases throughout the realm could be a distraction from that plot arc. I don't see any other serious motive for Stannis to betray humanity other than for his closest confidant to betray him and murder his only heir and child. This would also allow Stannis to be a loving bad rear end in the battle for Winterfel by destroying Bolton and deal with his ascendency as the new villain in the series. It would also explain how the TV show has consistently portrayed Stannis as villainous, tainted and unhinged. Unfortunately this also stamps on my dreams that Stannis would bend the knee to Jon Targaryan and become his devoted and loyal Hand because, unlike everyone else in this universe, Stannis is defined by duty and honor.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:19
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I'm sorry I don't know all about your personal reading habits or where you go to read about things so you can avoid reading other things but it was very late and your comment struck me as a snarky "I'm not reading these lovely books that I'm clearly interested in, someone else write a summery for me so I can avoid GRRMS terrible writing." So I replied with equal amounts of snark, my apologies to you. Though it has inspired me to form my own House... The Snarks of Whingerfell "Bitching is Coming"
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Dec 18, 2014 02:18
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TommyGun85 posted:asoiaf fans will be just as disappointed as lost fans were with the eventual conclusion and the fact that they wasted so much of their lives God, I hope so. My supply of Angry Fan Tears is running low.
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Dec 18, 2014 11:37
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Grendels Dad posted:God, I hope so. My supply of Angry Fan Tears is running low. it will all have been Rhaegar's dying hallucination in the end.
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Dec 18, 2014 15:15
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Stannis, delirious from hunger, imagines how an onion peddler will save them all, and by consequence, the Seven Kingdoms. The next day his wife surrenders the castle to Mace Tyrell and Paxter Redwyne who quickly start the march to the Trident. DeepQantas fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 21:37
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DeepQantas posted:Stannis, delirious from hunger, imagines how an onion peddler will save them all, and by consequence, the Seven Kingdoms. Even in Stannis' hallucinations everyone is always rejecting him, spurning him, and betraying him :stannis: e: A Song Of Ice And Fire, Or: "I Could Really Go For An Onion Right Now"
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Dec 18, 2014 21:41
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New 3 eyed raven but you cant view it without a phone gently caress you GoT.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:29
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