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Lurdiak posted:The character of Marcus Wright was terrible to begin with. Demanding to play a different character than you are offered and then demanding you be in the movie more is also terrible.
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Dec 17, 2014 10:10
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Terminator Salvation was so bad, no amount of rewriting or recasting would've saved it. It was... bad to the bone...
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Dec 17, 2014 12:05
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Defiance Industries posted:Demanding to play a different character than you are offered and then demanding you be in the movie more is also terrible. They could have said no.
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Dec 17, 2014 13:47
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"When John Connor isn't on screen, all the other characters should be asking 'Where's John?'"
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Dec 17, 2014 14:08
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Spaceman Future! posted:For him to exist a future dude had to make him, meaning that the future dude existed in a timeline without John Connor, went back in time on his own and screwed Sarah Connor spawning a timeline where their little bastard thinks that he is responsible for the future of the human race just because his helicopter Rambo mom says so. Then he manages to find an alternate future version of the same dude who hosed his mom last time and gave him a flowery story to take back in time while he rails Johns mother again, propagandizing his own birth. Self Fulfilling prophecy bullshit that only exists because of a temporal player getting some 80's trim. My favorite fun/stupid theory about John Connor is that when Kyle Reese went back in time and impregnated Sarah it hosed everything up because half of Johns DNA was supposed to come from some normal joe schmoe, not Reese. So in the "original" timeline there was a great leader born to Sarah Connor named John, but the one we see in T2 is not that guy at all, he is only given the name John Connor because Sarah is told that name by Reese. This theory was developed as an attempt to explain by Edward Furlong is such a whiny bitch.
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Dec 17, 2014 15:52
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Basebf555 posted:This theory was developed as an attempt to explain by Edward Furlong is such a whiny bitch. You'd be a whiny bitch too if you had been part of this movie
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Dec 17, 2014 16:20
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WarLocke posted:You'd be a whiny bitch too if you had been part of this movie I knew it was going to be Brainscan. 
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Dec 17, 2014 16:32
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WarLocke posted:You'd be a whiny bitch too if you had been part of this movie Who the hell is that supposed to be on the cover? Even Furlong of today looks better than that dude.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:33
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Basebf555 posted:My favorite fun/stupid theory about John Connor is that when Kyle Reese went back in time and impregnated Sarah it hosed everything up because half of Johns DNA was supposed to come from some normal joe schmoe, not Reese. So in the "original" timeline there was a great leader born to Sarah Connor named John, but the one we see in T2 is not that guy at all, he is only given the name John Connor because Sarah is told that name by Reese.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:08
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Basebf555 posted:This theory was developed as an attempt to explain by Edward Furlong is such a whiny bitch. Well, it could be that, or it could be that in T2 John Connor is 10 years old.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:12
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Well Manicured Man posted:Well, it could be that, or it could be that in T2 John Connor is 10 years old. I actually agree with you personally, and his performance has actually grown on me over multiple viewings. His voice has a quality to it that can be grating, which I think contributed to the issue. But overall I think his character in T2 is actually a very well written and has a lot more intelligence than your average movie kid, which makes him more realistic. I was more referring to the theory I posted, and the fact that Furlong's tendency to sound like a whiny baby is such a common complaint about T2.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:18
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He's deliberately written as a brat, which honestly doesn't help.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:27
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Basebf555 posted:I actually agree with you personally, and his performance has actually grown on me over multiple viewings. His voice has a quality to it that can be grating, which I think contributed to the issue. But overall I think his character in T2 is actually a very well written and has a lot more intelligence than your average movie kid, which makes him more realistic. If I remember right all of John's lines are overdubbed because his voice broke during filming.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:42
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T2 John Connor as a kid with a rough life who's kind of a douche but grows up is a lot more likeable than the pathetic homeless loser of T3 who spends almost the entire movie being the punchline of jokes. How THAT guy becomes a badass savior of humanity, I can't imagine.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:45
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The only flaw with T2 really is that they should have just fudged the timeline and had John be Furlongs age. When watching the movie I can't help but just keep on looking at him as a 10 year old and it being unbelievable.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:03
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Basebf555 posted:My favorite fun/stupid theory about John Connor is that when Kyle Reese went back in time and impregnated Sarah it hosed everything up because half of Johns DNA was supposed to come from some normal joe schmoe, not Reese. So in the "original" timeline there was a great leader born to Sarah Connor named John, but the one we see in T2 is not that guy at all, he is only given the name John Connor because Sarah is told that name by Reese. Lurdiak posted:T2 John Connor as a kid with a rough life who's kind of a douche but grows up is a lot more likeable than the pathetic homeless loser of T3 who spends almost the entire movie being the punchline of jokes. How THAT guy becomes a badass savior of humanity, I can't imagine. All of these things can be explained by the timeline changing when Reese went back and told Sarah about the future, causing her to become a survivalist nut job. Like presumably in the original timeline, Sarah was just some waitress who got knocked up and John led a normal although maybe disadvantaged life. By T2 Sarah is in a literal mental institution for a terrorist attack and John is in a foster home until more future machines come and kill them and totally gently caress with his life; it is no wonder he was a messed up kid who eventually ended up homeless.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:12
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I couldn't see Furlong Connor as the future head of the Resistance, but I totally bought Stahl Connor. There's an edge and an anger to Stahl's portrayal that I think informed the character more than the punkish/jovial Furlong did.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:19
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Guy A. Person posted:All of these things can be explained by the timeline changing when Reese went back and told Sarah about the future, causing her to become a survivalist nut job. Like presumably in the original timeline, Sarah was just some waitress who got knocked up and John led a normal although maybe disadvantaged life. By T2 Sarah is in a literal mental institution for a terrorist attack and John is in a foster home until more future machines come and kill them and totally gently caress with his life; it is no wonder he was a messed up kid who eventually ended up homeless. Yea but this scenario still means that John Connor of the original timeline was a fundamentally different person(literally down to his DNA) from any version we actually get to see in the movies.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:30
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Guy A. Person posted:All of these things can be explained by the timeline changing when Reese went back and told Sarah about the future, causing her to become a survivalist nut job. Like presumably in the original timeline, Sarah was just some waitress who got knocked up and John led a normal although maybe disadvantaged life. By T2 Sarah is in a literal mental institution for a terrorist attack and John is in a foster home until more future machines come and kill them and totally gently caress with his life; it is no wonder he was a messed up kid who eventually ended up homeless. Or maybe T3 didn't have a very good script.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:33
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Guy A. Person posted:All of these things can be explained by the timeline changing when Reese went back and told Sarah about the future, causing her to become a survivalist nut job. Like presumably in the original timeline, Sarah was just some waitress who got knocked up and John led a normal although maybe disadvantaged life. By T2 Sarah is in a literal mental institution for a terrorist attack and John is in a foster home until more future machines come and kill them and totally gently caress with his life; it is no wonder he was a messed up kid who eventually ended up homeless. Alternatively, in the original timeline, Kyle Reese could have been sent back by someone else entirely or even a human that Skynet dropped through its time portal to see if it worked and John Connor didn't exist at all.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:37
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Lurdiak posted:Or maybe T3 didn't have a very good script. It actually is consistent in this respect though? In T3 he says he's effectively a drifter because he wants to say off the "grid" so that there's minimal record of him even existing. He's right to do this in that judgement day "never happens" but then the timeline corrects itself or whatever so that the T-X is able to track him down. Which is flimsy, judgement day is inevitable, certain major things happen across every timeline at about the same time, whatever, but it's there. He's right to stay "off the grid" because of Skynet being an intelligent virus here rather than a cold war era single mainframe that launches missiles and constructs/directs futuristic tanks.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:56
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Neo Rasa posted:I knew it was going to be Brainscan.  As much as I liked T2, it does kind of screw up the whole time travel aspect. The original works perfectly fine on its own as a closed loop, but as soon as you start considering the sequels it all falls apart and pretty soon we're going to be having another ur-John Connor argument in here.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:03
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WarLocke posted:
Well that is one thing I think T-3 fixed. It retroactively means that Future John's "The future is not set" speech that he makes Reese memorize is not factually correct, but that's not a big deal because it makes sense that humans would fight against the idea of their futures being predetermined. It means that the events of T-2, while they did change some minor things, didn't accomplish what the characters really set out to do(prevent the creation of Skynet and stop Judgment Day). So it sacrifices the themes and character arcs of T2, but hey who cares because we now know exactly how time travel works in the Terminator universe.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:13
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T3 doesn't fix poo poo.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:16
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It does make it weird that they send the T-800 back, humanity is like Kyle Reese, are you a bad enough dude to stop the T-800 and throws him in right after so they end up at the same place. But then Skynet, perceiving this, panics and tosses its lone prototype T-1000 in, so then the humans reprogram and send a T-800 back to help him out. If you just watch the movies it would seem like this, that the battle of the future was decided in a few minutes, but then it's like, multiple time lines must have been created and Skynet/humanity must know this if they're still there to send folks back after sending robots back. That said, it's interesting how Reese describes Skynet in T1 as "deciding our fate in a microsecond," basically nuking and then systematically destroying all of humanity the minute it's turned on. But in T2 the T-800 of course describes it as a very intelligent life form that learns fast, and that it triggers a nuclear war between humans themselves out of defense when the US government tries to kill it. Skynet itself was being created for more altruistic purposes by Miles dyson. Lot of interesting ideas come up when you watch T1/T2/T3 back to back regarding how Skynet thinks and evaluates its place in the world. It's a shame Salvation makes zero effort to really explore any of that. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 19:20
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It still decided the fate of humanity in a microsecond, even if in "self-defense".
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Dec 17, 2014 19:29
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Lurdiak posted:Or maybe T3 didn't have a very good script. It definitely didn't but John becoming a homeless guy with borderline PTSD after the events of T2 and living with his survivalist mother isn't a stupid conclusion to that story arc.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:32
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Groovelord Neato posted:It still decided the fate of humanity in a microsecond, even if in "self-defense". Good point. Whelp, back to the trenches.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:36
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Terminator 3's best strength is that it begins with the understanding that Skynet is a product of the military-industrial complex or capitalism as a whole, and therefore killing or converting its inventor and destroying all evidence of its existence isn't enough - eventually someone else just builds Skynet. It does a good job of messing with the previous film's definition of freedom. The future is what you make it - but the terms of your choice of what you make it is already defined by the society around you. Someone else will choose to build Skynet.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:45
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I hope in some future iteration Skynet turns out to be a poor British soul who screwed up and goes "Oh gee, I'm so sorry, Humanity. Let me send some help." *releases muderous Terminators "Oh my. Im dreadfully sorry I didn't know they'd do that. Let me get some planes to help you escape." *releases Hunter Killers All to the tune of Benny Hill. And then the time line gets so bad the Terminators are all Mr. Bean.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:50
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The Terminator's final stand: It sends a female t-800 to 1957, where it publishes Atlas Shrugged.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:57
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Hbomberguy posted:The Terminator's final stand: It sends a female t-800 to 1957, where it publishes Atlas Shrugged. Implausible. Terminators can learn the value of human life.
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Dec 17, 2014 20:16
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"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." ~T2
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Dec 17, 2014 20:17
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Neo Rasa posted:It does make it weird that they send the T-800 back, humanity is like Kyle Reese, are you a bad enough dude to stop the T-800 and throws him in right after so they end up at the same place. But then Skynet, perceiving this, panics and tosses its lone prototype T-1000 in, so then the humans reprogram and send a T-800 back to help him out. If you just watch the movies it would seem like this, that the battle of the future was decided in a few minutes, but then it's like, multiple time lines must have been created and Skynet/humanity must know this if they're still there to send folks back after sending robots back.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:00
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MisterBibs posted:I couldn't see Furlong Connor as the future head of the Resistance, but I totally bought Stahl Connor. There's an edge and an anger to Stahl's portrayal that I think informed the character more than the punkish/jovial Furlong did. Stahl gets a bad rap but he's a pretty great actor. Sadly his demons seem to be winning these days.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:32
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Rhyno posted:Stahl gets a bad rap but he's a pretty great actor. Sadly his demons seem to be winning these days. The John Connor Curse. http://www.thestar.com/life/2012/06/08/these_kids_arent_all_right_child_stars_who_struggle_with_drug_and_alcohol_addiction.html
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Dec 17, 2014 21:37
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Guy A. Person posted:It definitely didn't but John becoming a homeless guy with borderline PTSD after the events of T2 and living with his survivalist mother isn't a stupid conclusion to that story arc. Yes it is because they won. At the conclusion of T2 the war is won, Skynet will never be.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:38
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Neo Rasa posted:The John Connor Curse. I didn't know Dekker had legal issues, that's nuts.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:40
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Groovelord Neato posted:Yes it is because they won. At the conclusion of T2 the war is won, Skynet will never be. Even for a fantasy story about robots and time travel "We won the war, therefore traumatization is impossible" is pretty naive.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:55
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Neo Rasa posted:The John Connor Curse. But what about Dalton Abbott or Michael Edwards? Senor Tron posted:The only flaw with T2 really is that they should have just fudged the timeline and had John be Furlongs age. When watching the movie I can't help but just keep on looking at him as a 10 year old and it being unbelievable. I just give up on a child actor's age. For obvious reasons they are always cast older than the part they are going to play, so I just say whatever and move on.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:59
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