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Kelly posted:I feel like Don put together what is the salient point: when he heard about this, he immediately put together a timeline of what he had done all day to satisfy any questions the police might have for him. Don was only 20 or so - not that much older than Adnan so it's not like he had the gift of life experience over Adnan. In terms of life experience the difference between 17 and 20 is pretty huge. A lot happens in those first few years after high school.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:13
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DrVenkman posted:It's just a mess of a case though. Take Don. Ok there's no reason to doubt him, but even his story brings up questions. Hae wanted to spend the day with him on a day that she knew she was being interviewed for TV and then writes him a note apologising that she couldn't stay, presumably with no way of giving it to him.  I was happy with the way the season wrapped up. The serial killer possibility they brought up is interesting but it does raise the question of why Jay would then try to frame Adnan for the murder and how he knew about Hae's car, unless he was connected to the serial killer somehow - or at some point had happened to come across Hae's car, recognised it, and used that to his advantage. Which is a pretty big stretch. At this point, I don't think Adnan killed Hae. But then I have no idea why Jay would go to such lengths to pin Adnan for Hae's death, and I'm not convinced Jay killed her either, so 
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Dec 18, 2014 18:33
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"He said he knew the West Side Hitman;" give me a break, Jay. I agree with SK in the end; I don't know if Adnan did it or not, but the evidence doesn't support conviction. The biggest takeaway from this episode for me was upending how I looked at Jay, one final time - the "These people are after me" story from Josh and that ridiculous "West Side Hitman" comment. For a guy that lies all the time, he sure is bad at it.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:57
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Kelly posted:I feel like Don put together what is the salient point: when he heard about this, he immediately put together a timeline of what he had done all day to satisfy any questions the police might have for him. This was a dealbreaker for me until I tried to apply the same thing to a traumatic thing in my own life. My grandfather died earlier this year and I vividly remember getting the news, going to my mom's house before work, who was there, how upset everyone was, and then leaving and going to work late. After that I can't tell you a single thing that happened until getting on a plane and flying to Philly for the funeral a week later. I think he's full of poo poo, but the idea of him not remembering isn't that far fetched to me anymore.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:57
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CoffeeBooze posted:In terms of life experience the difference between 17 and 20 is pretty huge. A lot happens in those first few years after high school. I guess it depends on the person, but for me it definitely didn't. Which is of course how a jury judges - based on their own prejudices and experiences. fullroundaction posted:This was a dealbreaker for me until I tried to apply the same thing to a traumatic thing in my own life. My grandfather died earlier this year and I vividly remember getting the news, going to my mom's house before work, who was there, how upset everyone was, and then leaving and going to work late. After that I can't tell you a single thing that happened until getting on a plane and flying to Philly for the funeral a week later. See again...same issue pops up. I had something similar in mind and was able to recall. There is just so little actual evidence that we are left kind of making assumptions about behavior and guessing. As frustrating as that feels for me, I cannot imagine how crazy it made SK and her staff. Agent Burt Macklin fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 19:14
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Something I've wondered about, that hasn't really been discussed, is who made the anonymous phone call to the cops that tipped them off that it was the ex-boyfriend. The cop that took the call said it was a "Young Asian Male" and given that he, whoever it was, names a pal of Adnans called Yasser, I think we can assume Asian to mean East-Asian. Ie Pakistani. The only theory I've got for this is that Adnan was shooting his mouth off (or was otherwise acting shady) down the mosque and someone called it in. But (assuming he did it, which I think he did) Adnan seemed to have kept his mouth shut, so this makes no kind of sense.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:55
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JethroMcB posted:"He said he knew the West Side Hitman;" give me a break, Jay. Jay is such a strange person in all this that I wouldn't believe him as a character if he was presented as fictional. Like, one person mentioned Jay once tried to stab him because he'd never been stabbed before and needs to experience it.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:58
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fullroundaction posted:I think he's full of poo poo, but the idea of him not remembering isn't that far fetched to me anymore. Adnan was also smoking a lot of weed around that time which can effect your memory pretty severely.
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Dec 18, 2014 20:45
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Lmao at Adnan at the beginning of the podcast.
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Dec 18, 2014 20:45
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This might be easily shot down but it has been in my mind since the start of the podcast. Regarding the Nisha call... What if Jay (or whoever) made the call, on purpose, to "lock" Adnan to the crime. Because only he knew her. What if whoever had the phone (the murderer) called someone only Adnan would know just so that would be true? And I forget what time the call was at, maybe 3:30 I think? But maybe she just wasn't home and it rang for 2 mins or maybe she did answer and the person faked a conversation for 2 minutes and since back then Nisha may have not had Caller ID she may have been none the wiser that the call was coming from Adnan's phone. I just don't think it's super rock solid that Adnan had to be the one to call Nisha that day.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:11
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Its certainly possible. It seems like it would take some master criminal levels of planning to do that though.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:14
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rear end Catchcum posted:This might be easily shot down but it has been in my mind since the start of the podcast. Nah, only because Jay would have to know that the call would still show up on Adnan's phone bill if he kept it going over a certain amount of time. It's too much planning for someone who seemingly couldn't get their story straight.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:22
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I wasn't thinking phone bill, I was thinking call log, which isn't too hard to believe someone would know about.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:27
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I wish Jay dropped J Cole from the label for that song
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Dec 18, 2014 21:29
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rear end Catchcum posted:I wasn't thinking phone bill, I was thinking call log, which isn't too hard to believe someone would know about. Which is fair enough, but his plan sort of relies on Nisha not picking up. Even if she does pick up, all it takes is for her to hear Jay's voice the next time they talk to put 2 and 2 together. And again seems a large amount of foresight and planning from Jay.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:33
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Yeah, I can see it being improbable but I've definitely talked to people one time and wouldn't be able to nail down their voice. I'm also not saying it had to be jay. Maybe he handed the phone off who someone else that was into it. Maybe Nisha doesn't remember talking to someone who said they were a telemarketer that day. Maybe she did never answer but the POINT of the call was to just have it show up on the call log, whether it be jay or whoever
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Dec 18, 2014 21:41
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rear end Catchcum posted:Yeah, I can see it being improbable but I've definitely talked to people one time and wouldn't be able to nail down their voice. I called my mom on my work phone and thought I had dialed the wrong number since the quality was so dramatically different from what I was used to. It's been shown time and time again that eye witnesses are extremely unreliable, I would think that an ear witness would be even more unreliable if it was even in the realm of possibility as being a piece of evidence used against Adnan.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:49
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rear end Catchcum posted:This might be easily shot down but it has been in my mind since the start of the podcast. Jay would've had to know that Adnan had no alibi and could have the crime pinned on him. If Adnan was hanging out at school all day or somewhere on camera the whole thing falls apart. I still think Jay did it, but I don't think he planned to pin it on Adnan until he started realizing the situation and that's why his story is so full of holes. Or Adnan did it with a lot more of Jay's help than we think. Something along the lines of "Jay was actually there when she died" and that's what all his lies are covering up.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:20
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Koenig refuses to ask what possible reason Jay could have for taking the stand and perjuring himself to blame Adnan. Guess what: it means he would have been the murderer. And he had zero motive to kill Hae. There are some holes in the overall story but the key elements for conviction are there, and a reasonable jury could comfortably vote to convict. The innocence project lady is basically delusional and that whole storyline was a waste of time. This podcast was a case of diminishing returns, and they really milked it for all it was worth. Overall I will still reccommend it to others despite its flaws.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:24
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axeil posted:I still think Jay did it, but I don't think he planned to pin it on Adnan until he started realizing the situation and that's why his story is so full of holes. But why would Jay do it? I don't think any clear motive has been established for anyone in the case. The closest anyone has come to establishing a motive was the prosecution doing so for Adnan. Even then it just seems flimsy. If it weren't for Jay's knowing where the car was I would be inclined to think that it was some random nut who did it, but based on Jay's knowledge I don't think that is what happened either.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:26
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I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that an active local serial killer, who was free and killing local Asian girls at the time that this specific Asian girl was mysterious killed, could be the real culprit. At any rate, something weird definitely went down, and Jay was involved. I don't think he himself was the killer, but i do think he saw what happened, or at least knows way more than he's letting on. Also, probably Adnan is involved in some way, but his motive is paper thin. I agree with SK and her conclusions completely
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Dec 18, 2014 22:32
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Drunk Tomato posted:I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that an active local serial killer, who was free and killing local Asian girls at the time that this specific Asian girl was mysterious killed, could be the real culprit. Explain then how Jay knew where the car was and that she'd been strangled?
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Dec 18, 2014 22:35
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African AIDS cum posted:Explain then how Jay knew where the car was and that she'd been strangled? Something to do with Millennials, probably.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:48
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TheJoker138 posted:Something to do with Millennials, probably. Lol at you still being irate over a single post made weeks ago
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Dec 18, 2014 22:53
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axeil posted:Jay would've had to know that Adnan had no alibi and could have the crime pinned on him. If Adnan was hanging out at school all day or somewhere on camera the whole thing falls apart. Still calling out Occam's Razor. It makes far more sense that Jay was just making up stories covering for himself and not a mastermind criminal that everything just worked out in his favor. It's much more simple if Jay helped Adnan bury her and just had second thoughts once the police started questioning everyone. If you hide the truth and helped someone bury a body you will get a accessory to a crime charge at the very least. It was simple to think Jay was trying to wiggle out of jail-time and succeeded.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:56
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African AIDS cum posted:Explain then how Jay knew where the car was and that she'd been strangled? They run in crime circles! Totally plausible and not a complete waste of time that inexplicably got brought up repeatedly Between laying out how exceedingly unlikely Adnan's run of bad luck would need to have been and pointing out the sale on shrimp at the Crab Crib, Dana is definitely the star of the series
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Dec 18, 2014 22:57
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xbilkis posted:They run in crime circles! Totally plausible and not a complete waste of time that inexplicably got brought up repeatedly Agreed 100% she should helm season 2
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Dec 18, 2014 22:58
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African AIDS cum posted:Lol at you still being irate over a single post made weeks ago I'm not irate, making fun of you for being an idiot it's just fun and easy. Millennials.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:02
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TheJoker138 posted:I'm not irate, making fun of you for being an idiot it's just fun and easy. Millennials. You registered on this site to post about WWE, comic books, and video games. Please take your autism fueled anger back to one of those forums and don't post at me any more you weirdo
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Dec 18, 2014 23:07
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African AIDS cum posted:Koenig refuses to ask what possible reason Jay could have for taking the stand and perjuring himself to blame Adnan. Guess what: it means he would have been the murderer. And he had zero motive to kill Hae. There are some holes in the overall story but the key elements for conviction are there, and a reasonable jury could comfortably vote to convict. If the latter, there definitely isn't enough to convict Adnan. It's essentially a case of hearsay.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:07
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Josh Lyman posted:Are you saying Jay definitely did it? Or are you saying Adnan definitely did it because Jay didn't have motive and would have perjured himself? Adnan is guilty and his conviction is valid and just. The podcast is very one-sided and disrespectful to the family of the victim. Edit: hearsay how? Explain
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Dec 18, 2014 23:10
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The scenario that makes the most sense to me at this point is that Adnan had something to do with her death, but that it was probably accidental. He panicked and asked Jay for help, and Jay was later pressured by the prosecution /police to implicate Adnan for murder. And Adnan maybe figured no one would believe the accident, maybe because his lawyer told him so or maybe because the prosecution was out for blood and here we are. It explains why no one who knows him thinks he could have done it, and even why he's maintained his innocence (because he is in fact innocent of murder).
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Dec 18, 2014 23:11
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I just think it's hosed up you can go to jail for life because one guy says you did it.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:21
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African AIDS cum posted:Adnan is guilty and his conviction is valid and just. The podcast is very one-sided and disrespectful to the family of the victim. mcmagic posted:There is just zero reason for Jay to have done it... My favorite dumb theory about Jay doing it, What if they were on the down low?! There's 0 evidence to support it but it provides a neat and tidy explanation for everything.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:48
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rear end Catchcum posted:I just think it's hosed up you can go to jail for life because one guy says you did it. It really isn't this simple. Jay's accounts are corroborated by quite a bit of other evidence.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:30
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CoffeeBooze posted:It really isn't this simple. Jay's accounts are corroborated by quite a bit of other evidence. No its not there is one call which ties Adnan to his phone and that's it. Rumda fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 00:34
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JethroMcB posted:"He said he knew the West Side Hitman;" give me a break, Jay. I got to that part and thought, "Then why didn't Adnan just use the hitman to kill her?"
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Dec 19, 2014 00:37
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Drunk Tomato posted:Also, probably Adnan is involved in some way, but his motive is paper thin. Going to disagree with this, experientially. When my high school sweetheart broke up with me I lost my poo poo for a good couple months. Killing her never crossed my mind but I handled the situation very poorly. I guess what I'm saying is don't underestimate teenage hormones.
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Dec 19, 2014 01:02
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One of my biggest concerns about Adnan's potential innocence was the lack of plausible alternative suspects. Jay was the most obvious but no motive, and Adnan didn't claim it was him. The current boyfriend had an alibi. I was glad when the host seemed to be addressing this, but a roaming serial killer? That was a huge stretch.
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Dec 19, 2014 01:12
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African AIDS cum posted:You registered on this site to post about WWE, comic books, and video games. Please take your autism fueled anger back to one of those forums and don't post at me any more you weirdo You're the one apparently going through my post history, you sperg. Also you seem to have registered to post about how much you hate people younger than you and poorly play devil's advocate in a podcast thread, so... Glass houses and all, freak. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 19, 2014 01:25
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